Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Roche in the Vuelta

Options
  • 02-09-2008 9:22am
    #1
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭


    He seems to be doing quite well.
    He had a go at a break away towards the end of the stage on Monday, it didn't amount to anything though.
    Then yesterday he finished 5th in the sprint and now he lies in 8th position in the points tally.

    More info here...
    http://www.irishcycling.com/publish/news/art_3358.shtml


«13

Comments

  • Options
    #2
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    He seems to be going well alright. Only got to see yesterday's stage this morning before leaving for work. Was looking at the sprint saying "what's he doing up there?"


  • Options
    #3
    Funkyzeit
    Registered Users Posts: 1,033 ✭✭✭Funkyzeit


    Looks in good form - he seemed the strongest out of the riders in that dig on Monday - as Harmon was saying very different style from his ouldfella...


  • Options
    #4
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    Amazing.

    Roche like Kelly?

    Great to see he has moved from lead-out to lead sprinter. Never thought I'd see that!

    The big question: who is better? Roche or Martin?

    I'd have to say Roche, as he is consistently riding higher calibre races.

    Good to see such great performances in Irish cycling; especially with the protracted demise of Pezula.


  • Options
    #5
    cgf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 545 ✭✭✭cgf


    Duly noted....


    Fair play to him. Or is it franc jeu ;)


  • Options
    #6
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Best put that in a spoiler dude, some of the guys tape it and watch it in the evening :)


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #7
    smithslist
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭smithslist


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    Good to see such great performances in Irish cycling

    eh, wat are you talking bout, d.martin did not grow up on the Irish cycling circuit as much as the likes of roche, Power, O'Loughlin, p.Deignan or m.Scanlan (retired) did, do u not know he was '04 British National Junior RR Champion, and grew up in the same bunch as Cavendish in his junior british days.....I never heard of martin anywhere connected to Irish cycling until he declared being Irish. (Correct me if i am wrong)

    Roche went to France to cycle but unfortunately he was more or less forced to declare for french nationality, but then again came back being Irish again (and stil keeps his dual nationality).

    So, yes it is a great performance by Roche.....and overall he is a better\stronger rider than martin


  • Options
    #8
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    smithslist wrote: »
    eh, wat are you talking bout, d.martin did not grow up on the Irish cycling circuit as much as the likes of roche, Power, O'Loughlin, p.Deignan or m.Scanlan (retired) did, do u not know he was '04 British National Junior RR Champion, and grew up in the same bunch as Cavendish in his junior british days.....I never heard of martin anywhere connected to Irish cycling until he declared being Irish. (Correct me if i am wrong)

    Roche went to France to cycle but unfortunately he was more or less forced to declare for french nationality, but then again came back being Irish again (and stil keeps his dual nationality).

    So, yes it is a great performance by Roche.....and overall he is a better\stronger rider than martin

    Rant:

    So I'll tell you what I'm talking about: I'm talking about punctuation, language usage and not using your thumbs to 'spell' dammit!


    Back to reality, are you trying to be pedantic or what?

    And thanks for the comprehensive anthology of Irish (or somewhat Irish) cycling.

    Oh, since we're being pedantic, Scanlon didn't exactly retire. He ate too much cake, turned up to a Spring training camp looking like Bibendum and was fired. Allegedly.


  • Options
    #9
    smithslist
    Registered Users Posts: 618 ✭✭✭smithslist


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    Back to reality, are you trying to be pedantic or what?

    i with reality here, martin hasn't even used the Irish cycling system compared to riders who grew up on the Irish scene and hardly get a mention....use it as a rant if you like, but as you mention the Pezula team & irish cycling, why don't u mention C.Power who i though had a v.good toi, getting into the top 10-15 in bunch sprints

    Ive all respect to martin (and all the rest of the pro's& amateur cyclists) for getting to the level where he is at, and hopes he has a successful career.
    dave2pvd wrote: »
    And thanks for the comprehensive anthology of Irish (or somewhat Irish) cycling.

    your welcome
    dave2pvd wrote: »
    Oh, since we're being pedantic, Scanlon didn't exactly retire. He ate too much cake, turned up to a Spring training camp looking like Bibendum and was fired. Allegedly.

    Scanlon always had weight issue's and not cos of his diet, even when he was a top amateur he battled through it and always looked like he was over-weight, but then his was goin strong on the bike, it is just his build,

    Only thing that got to him was missing home, no fixed pro cycling agenda and the drug culture in the sport, when your not 100% mentally up for cycling, esp. during winter season, it is difficult to maintain your training regime.

    that's a pedantic explanation instead of ur 'too much cake' theory.


  • Options
    #10
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    smithslist wrote: »
    Only thing that got to him was missing home, no fixed pro cycling agenda and the drug culture in the sport, when your not 100% mentally up for cycling, esp. during winter season, it is difficult to maintain your training regime.

    that's a pedantic explanation instead of ur 'too much cake' theory.

    Actually that was Scanlon's explanation. Which I don't exactly buy. He pissed away his talent because he lacked a good work ethic, IMO (in all fairness the poor lad was homesick too). He may not regret it yet, but he will. When he left the ProTour for US Pro with Toyota, he first mentioned being sick of the drug culture. So what did he do? He opted for cake culture. He could have been a major contender in US racing. Toyota that year went on to have a huge season. Anyway, I'm sticking with my cake theory.

    Dan Martin didn't grow up in the Irish cycling scene. So what. I really liked Tony Cascarino too you know.

    Power. What can you say about Power? A great rider. Has lasted at the top level a long time. Really like the guy. I always wished Navigators gave him A team status more often. But then again, his leg ailment really hobbled him for a while. Hate that he didn't make the Olympics. But you can't really fault the selectors' picks. You have to wonder where he goes from here. The year 2000 was a long time ago. I wonder how much he has left in him?


  • Options
    #11
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    This is about Roche in the Vuelta, not Tony Cascarino!
    Anyway, I reckon it's safe to talk results from yesterday.
    Another top 10 finish. Was this his target all along, although I thought I heard earlier in the year that he had a very good chance for a place in le Tour.

    14th in the GC.
    7th in the points.

    Is his GC placing liable to "majorly slip" when they hit the big mountains?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #12
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    I wonder what he's up to. I know the crash probably had an impact on yesterday's stage finish, but he seems to be making a consistent effort to be up there at the end of the sprint stages. Does he reckon he can develop into a sprinter? Is he on the look out for a cheeky stage win? Or does he think that the likes of Boonen and Bennati will drop out to prepare for the Worlds and allow him to have a run at the points jersey.

    There was a very telling moment in last year's Giro. Roche shot of the front of the bunch like a rocket at the end of a sprint stage. For a minute I thought he had a chance of a win. Turns out he was meant to be leading Hushovd out, but he got caught up in traffic behind. The speed at which he made the move though was phenomenal.
    Raam wrote: »
    ...although I thought I heard earlier in the year that he had a very good chance for a place in le Tour.

    He had, but had to miss the Tour de Suisse because of flu and missed out on his chance for selection. He concentrated on preparing for the Olympics instead.
    Raam wrote: »
    Is his GC placing liable to "majorly slip" when they hit the big mountains?

    First test is the time trial today. I haven't seen enough of him TTing against the big guys to guess at how well he'd do. Don't think he's the worst climber in the world, but I can't see him hanging in there on the big ones.


  • Options
    #13
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    He hasn't exactly hung onto the mountain goats in the hills this year...my guess is he'll go mid pack, or autobus.

    Surely, he knows he's capable of sprinting with the best? When you're last leadout, you get occasional chances to show your stuff in the gallop for the line. It happens when your sprinter loses, never finds or gets bumped off your wheel. So what do you do? You go for it.


  • Options
    #14
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    When you're last leadout, you get occasional chances to show your stuff in the gallop for the line. It happens when your sprinter loses, never finds or gets bumped off your wheel. So what do you do? You go for it.

    Kind of like Steegmans last year. He was leading Boonen out, then decided to win for himself. Now he's off to Katusha, although so is McEwan. I wonder who will be kingpin there.

    As for Roche, I'm delighted that he is up there and I hope he can bring this form next year also.


  • Options
    #15
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    When you're last leadout, you get occasional chances to show your stuff in the gallop for the line. It happens when your sprinter loses, never finds or gets bumped off your wheel. So what do you do? You go for it.

    He isn't usually the leadout man though. That time I saw him in the Giro was the only time I saw him with those duties. Mark Renshaw usually does it for Hushovd.
    Raam wrote: »
    Kind of like Steegmans last year. He was leading Boonen out, then decided to win for himself. Now he's off to Katusha, although so is McEwan. I wonder who will be kingpin there.

    Steegmans used to be McEwan's leadout at Lotto. His departure for Quickstep is one reason poeple have given for him having a quiet season or two.

    Every time I hear about Katusha, I think of Katyusha.


  • Options
    #16
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    el tonto wrote: »
    Every time I hear about Katusha, I think of Katyusha.

    You mean like the boys at Velo news do?
    http://www.velonews.com/article/82668
    Officials say the name Katyusha is taken from a song popularized during World War II to inspire Soviet soldiers during the war. But it’s also the name of a truck-mounted rocket launcher used during the Soviet era.

    The way it’s throwing around cash to lure away top stars, most disgruntled rival managers will likely mutter references to the latter.


  • Options
    #17
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    el tonto wrote: »
    He isn't usually the leadout man though. That time I saw him in the Giro was the only time I saw him with those duties. Mark Renshaw usually does it for Hushovd.

    I have always inferred that he was leadout from his finishing position. When he wasn't final leadout, he seemed to be second last man.

    Depending on the finishing geography, the last leadout will finish anywhere 6th - 12th, 2nd last man anywhere top 20 - 25th or so.

    The kid has a big engine. I wonder has he really got the final 200m kick though?


  • Options
    #18
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    I have always inferred that he was leadout from his finishing position. When he wasn't final leadout, he seemed to be second last man.

    Depending on the finishing geography, the last leadout will finish anywhere 6th - 12th, 2nd last man anywhere top 20 - 25th or so.

    You're probably looking at him more closely than me in that case. I'd always thought Hushovd wasn't much of a train guy and instead relied on one "pilot fish" like Renshaw and, before him, Julian Dean.
    dave2pvd wrote: »
    The kid has a big engine. I wonder has he really got the final 200m kick though?

    That's what has me intrigued. He's obviously got talent, but I'm not sure yet where he's going to thrive. His performance in the Rund um den Henninger-Turm this year made me think that maybe his future lies in the one day races, in the style of O'Grady or Cancellara (with a lot more work to be done before he gets up to their level of course).

    There's a good chance we might have three Irish riders in the Tour next year, if he, Martin and Deignan stay in form and injury free.


  • Options
    #19
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    el tonto wrote: »
    You're probably looking at him more closely than me in that case.

    Yeah, I'm just a wee bit infatuated with the sprint.

    It's mostly what I focus on here, racing in the US. To win criteriums you need to have a great leadout train and a helluva final kick.


  • Options
    #20
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    dave2pvd wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm just a wee bit infatuated with the sprint.

    It's mostly what I focus on here, racing in the US. To win criteriums you need to have a great leadout train and a helluva final kick.

    Didn't realise you were based in the US. Do you get to do any road races, or is it all just crits?


  • Options
    #21
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    el tonto wrote: »
    Didn't realise you were based in the US. Do you get to do any road races, or is it all just crits?

    ~40% crash-teriums. 20% TT and 40% RR. Typical weekend is either omnium or stage race (points vs timed). But some guys just specialise in crits. The tactics are VERY different. My weekday training often consists of crit training sessions, like they (used to?) do in Phoenix Park and Sandyford Ind Est. You get really comfortable with lactic acid.

    Speaking of Ciaran Power, earlier: he is an ideal crit rider. With Navigators, he did rather well at the event. I think the last one he won was the Mengoni Cup race in Central Park.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #22
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Question: are there points on offer in TTs or is it only the GC that is impacted by TTs?


  • Options
    #23
    Dodge
    Registered Users Posts: 10,269 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    el tonto wrote: »
    His performance in the Rund um den Henninger-Turm this year made me think that maybe his future lies in the one day races, in the style of O'Grady

    O'Grady was exactly the guy I was thinking about when looking at Roche's recent speed. The sort of guy who can win the odd sprint in the 3rd week of grand tours (when the superfast guys long lost in the mountains) and be strong enough to drive solid breakaways.

    He definitely seems to have enough to pick up some good wins.


  • Options
    #24
    dave2pvd
    Registered Users Posts: 1,511 ✭✭✭dave2pvd


    Yeah, O'Grady. Or maybe a Jens Voigt? I see him developing even more power as time goes by. His stamina to compete at the end of even shorter tours is still in question though. Maybe he'll prove me wrong about that fairly soon...hopefully.

    Raam: points are given in an omnium for TTs. RR tends to award the most points, followed by the crit, then the TT. So some lads will just soft-pedal the TT. Points also given for RR KOM and crit prime sprints, known as MARs.


  • Options
    #25
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    He attacked again today. Went off the front with Cunego with a few km to go. They got caught but he looked strong again.


  • Options
    #26
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    el tonto wrote: »
    He attacked again today. Went off the front with Cunego with a few km to go. They got caught but he looked strong again.

    He was fairly flying up that hill at the end. Still doing well in the points, 13th at my last check, but he's slipped down the GC a bit after the TT.


  • Options
    #27
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    It seems like no one really cares about the Vuelta, but anyway...
    Today's stage was interesting. I won't give anything away in case people have it taped.


  • Options
    #28
    TinyExplosions
    Registered Users Posts: 6,860 ✭✭✭TinyExplosions


    Raam wrote: »
    It seems like no one really cares about the Vuelta, but anyway...
    Today's stage was interesting. I won't give anything away in case people have it taped.

    Watched the highlights.... very interesting today!


  • Options
    #29
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    What a fantastic stage. I almost missed it because I forgot to set the video but caught the highlights last night. The weather and those narrow Cantabrian roads really made it. Bettini's kick at at the end was incredible, a real blast from the past. Looks like he's finally finding some form this year. Just in time for the Worlds, but not in time to get a new deal from Quickstep. Apparently he's fuming they signed Schumacher.


  • Options
    #30
    Junior
    Registered Users Posts: 3,197 ✭✭✭Junior


    I thought Roche had a good timetrial in him to be fair, he did well here when he won the 25km TT in Waterford last year ? Hopefully he'll continue his form over the whole vuelta...

    Slight aside - anyone know what's going to happen to the riders let go from Pezula ?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #31
    Raam
    Registered Users Posts: 14,317 ✭✭✭✭Raam


    Poor old Valverde. The Astana boys really hammered it to get away from him once they realised he was dropped. The Caisse d'Eparnge boys couldn't even keep up with Valverde as he tried, in vain, to get back on. Harmon mentioned that Euskadi were helping Astana as Valverde didn't help them the other day or something?


Advertisement