Keegan to walk (watch this space)

therecklessone

aidan24326 wrote: »

And this thing of having a 'director of football' looking over the manager's shoulder is nonsense. Either the manager is in charge or he isn't, and Keegan clearly wasn't fully in charge the way a manger should be.

So what say you to the continental model which does employ a DOF or sporting director?

Just because football on these isles is struggling to come to terms with the concept doesn't mean it's destined for failure. I'm sure when Arsene Wenger arrived in England and placed his players on a diet of steamed fish and vegtables people said WTF? Same with prozone, sports psychology and all of the other recent additions to the game...

~Rebel~

therecklessone wrote: »

So what say you to the continental model which does employ a DOF or sporting director?

Just because football on these isles is struggling to come to terms with the concept doesn't mean it's destined for failure. I'm sure when Arsene Wenger arrived in England and placed his players on a diet of steamed fish and vegtables people said WTF? Same with prozone, sports psychology and all of the other recent additions to the game...

Theres a happy medium though. The Sporting director has to work with the manager. E.g, The manager sits down with the sporting director at the start of the window, outlines the formations he plans to use, the characteristics he needs in the personnel to be brought in and the people he deems surplus to requirements once he gets his squad improvements. And the Sporting Director should always consult the manager with his results before actually making a move for the player.

BaZmO*

therecklessone wrote: »

So what say you to the continental model which does employ a DOF or sporting director?

Just because football on these isles is struggling to come to terms with the concept doesn't mean it's destined for failure. I'm sure when Arsene Wenger arrived in England and placed his players on a diet of steamed fish and vegtables people said WTF? Same with prozone, sports psychology and all of the other recent additions to the game...

Just on the subject of DOF within the British Isles, I read an interesting article the other day with regards to that. Well at least I thought it was interesting.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0901/1220218691280.html

PREMIER LEAGUE: IF YOU FIND yourself at the loosest of ends this week, go on to You Tube and type "Neil Warnock bollocking" into the search box, writes Andrew Fifield .

Wade through the results - unsurprisingly, this might take a while - and open the file containing the film of English football's Mr Angry attempting to lift his Huddersfield team at Shrewsbury in 1994.

You won't regret it.

In fact, the hardest part might just be choosing your favourite moment from the eight minutes and 43 seconds of footage - the bit where a disembodied hand has to wipe the lens of the camera, all fogged up from the steam spurting out of Warnock's ears, or maybe the Yorkshireman grabbing a startled centre-half for use as a human prop as he demonstrates the art of "getting in front of your f****** man".

Given the way football has progressed, Warnock's jabberings are probably being used as a case study in applied management courses. Yet the most striking thing about the film - apart from the language - is just how little sense it makes.

Before he opens his mouth, Warnock makes great show of composing himself in a secluded corner - supping tea and rehearsing his lines. Yet when the tirade begins, the coherence ends. There are some mutterings about switching to 4-3-3 - though any semblance of tactical nous is rather muffled when Warnock forgets the word for "left" - but the gist can be summed up in the final, bellowed command: "Let's go out and give them a f****** go!"

Throughout, you suspect this rant is solely for Warnock's benefit. Shouting loudly provides catharsis but no results. At one point, he even admits to no longer caring about the scoreline, which is a good job as Huddersfield went on to lose 2-1.

It all seems rather futile, though nonetheless instructive. Professional football is such a closeted, self-important world we are hardly ever granted a sneaky peek into its inner sanctums. That's a pity: if we were, maybe some of the game's more nonsensical myths would be debunked at a stroke.

Take managers. England is probably the only country in world football still genuinely in thrall to the Cult of the Gaffer - the doctrine whereby men of little intellect or experience are allowed assume control of every aspect of a football club, from how much players should be paid to what piece of PR puff appears on the official website.

The media also play their part in massaging the ego. Any manager capable of using plural pronouns or using words like "dynamic" is labelled a professor, while those who sling slanderous insults at their peers are deemed masters of the mind game. The result of all this fawning is that managers start to believe they really are supermen.

The reality is very different. As anyone who has sat behind a dug-out can testify, a manager could be turned into a human fireball and his players would still not bat an eyelid, while the video of Warnock's Shrewsbury diatribe suggests that if all a team-talk needs are some pithy put-downs, we might as well slap Simon Cowell on a satellite link in every dressing-room and have done with it.

The time has come for a reassessment. Perhaps England should follow the European model, where the player - not the managerial personality - is celebrated. Milan are the club of Baresi, Maldini and Kaka; Real Madrid's foundations were laid by Di Stefano, Puskas and Hierro; Ajax were forged by Cruyff, Neeskens and van Basten.

There are philosophers, of course: Herrera with his catenaccio and Michels with his total football. But they are the exceptions to the rule whereby coaches are largely expendable accessories. The idea of a club being identified with its trainer - as Liverpool are with Bill Shankly, Manchester United with Alex Ferguson or Arsenal with Arsène Wenger - would be unthinkable. The all-powerful presidents wouldn't have it, for starters.

Europe is not in any position to preach when English football's grip on the Champions League is at its tightest in over 25 years.

But you can't help thinking that if we - by which I mean all the home nations - diluted the authority afforded our managers, we might produce players capable of thinking for themselves on the international stage, of assuming responsibility for their own results and performances, of actually using that great lump of greyish wobbly stuff in their heads called brain.

It might just happen, too. Once the current crop of personality managers - the Fergies and Arsènes, even the Warnocks of this world - fade away, a new generation should be ready to replace them - talented men with enough self-confidence and belief to be happy with a mere coach's lot.

And then perhaps players can start managing themselves.

© 2008 The Irish Times

Charlie

Sorry, but that article is a load of bullshine in my view, and its purpose seems solely to shift the blame yet again as to why the English natonal team can't seem to get it right.

Convientley, they pick a hotheaded fool like Warnock to state the case, without really extolling the virtues of the likes of Wenger, Ferguson, Benitez, etc. etc.

BaZmO*

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Sorry, but that article is a load of bullshine in my view, and its purpose seems solely to shift the blame yet again as to why the English natonal team can't seem to get it right.

Convientley, they pick a hotheaded fool like Warnock to state the case, without really extolling the virtues of the likes of Wenger, Ferguson, Benitez, etc. etc.

Well considering it's from and Irish paper I don't agree, but then again we're all entitled our own opinion. Sure didn't you thinking Ashley was the saviour of Newcastle! :pac: How's that opinion working out for ya?

aidan24326

therecklessone wrote: »

So what say you to the continental model which does employ a DOF or sporting director?

Just because football on these isles is struggling to come to terms with the concept doesn't mean it's destined for failure. I'm sure when Arsene Wenger arrived in England and placed his players on a diet of steamed fish and vegtables people said WTF? Same with prozone, sports psychology and all of the other recent additions to the game...

If a manger wants to take on a job where he knows that there's a DOF there to handle transfers, pay talks or whatever it might be that's fair enough, but Keegan was led to believe that he would have control over what players are bought and who is surplus to requirements. Personally I think it makes sense that the manager, who is ultimately responsible for results, should be allowed to decide what players he wants at the club. As for contract negotiations though I think that should be left to 'them upstairs', be it the director of football or the chairman or whoever.

Charlie

BaZmO* wrote: »

Sure didn't you thinking Ashley was the saviour of Newcastle! :pac: How's that opinion working out for ya?

I use to also think Santa was the sh/t back in the day. Sometimes you find out not everything is what it appeared to be. But carry on resorting to cheap pops, its probably easier than actually making a reasoned response.

BaZmO*

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I use to also think Santa was the sh/t back in the day. Sometimes you find out not everything is what it appeared to be. But carry on resorting to cheap pops, its probably easier than actually making a reasoned response.

Reasoned response? I said it was from an Irish newspaper so it wasn't English propaganda. And as for the cheap shot comment, you were the one that replied to my post saying it was bull****.

But anyway, OT: The Newcastle Circus rolls on...........

Charlie

BaZmO* wrote: »

Reasoned response? I said it was from an Irish newspaper so it wasn't English propaganda. And as for the cheap shot comment, you were the one that replied to my post saying it was bull****.

But anyway, OT: The Newcastle Circus rolls on...........

Just because it is an Irish journalist, why should he not try and take stab at their national team, most readers now are born and bred on EPL football, so its not like he is taken about the price of tea in China?

Sigh...I said that article was bullshine, not your post. Now, unless you're the Irish author,apologies, otherwise, stop being so tetchy that someone disagrees with the viewpoint of an article you happened to cite.

happydayz182

why is ashley so obsessed wit this DOF role anyway....only one of top 4 have it and they are meg rich...look at last seasons table and you see teams like everton,portsmouth blacburn and villa who were run properly by their manager finsished ahead of those with DOF like tottenham,Fulham and even reading who are supposed to have a brilliant director in nick hammond

Why would he want to make the club more european..the english league seem to be the best in europe so why try to copy somethin inferior?

BaZmO*

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Sigh...I said that article was bullshine, not your post. Now, unless you're the Irish author,apologies, otherwise, stop being so tetchy that someone disagrees with the viewpoint of an article you happened to cite.

Me tetchy? You were the one that got all offended at my obviously tongue in cheek comment. Anyway, this is waaaaaaaay off topic......move along....nothing to see here...

therecklessone

happydayz182 wrote: »

why is ashley so obsessed wit this DOF role anyway....only one of top 4 have it and they are meg rich...look at last seasons table and you see teams like everton,portsmouth blacburn and villa who were run properly by their manager finsished ahead of those with DOF like tottenham,Fulham and even reading who are supposed to have a brilliant director in nick hammond

Look at the two season's before that and you'll see the side that finished 5th on both occasions had a DOF. You'll also see that the sides that were relegated all employed the traditional management structure.

I don't think either of us are proving anything conclusive by stating those facts tbh.

therecklessone

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Theres a happy medium though. The Sporting director has to work with the manager. E.g, The manager sits down with the sporting director at the start of the window, outlines the formations he plans to use, the characteristics he needs in the personnel to be brought in and the people he deems surplus to requirements once he gets his squad improvements. And the Sporting Director should always consult the manager with his results before actually making a move for the player.

Ideally yes, there should be a good relationship between the DOF and the coach. I always doubted the Wise/Keegan duo tbh, Wise because I felt he would struggle to have an impact against some of Europe's heavy hitting sporting directors, but I was told that Jeff Vetere would bring his expertise to the table in pursuing transfer targets, and Keegan because I felt he would not be up to the task of coaching the side.

I'm not too sure anyone has suggested that Keegan did not want any of the players that were bought in to Newcastle, Guthrie/Guiteraz/Collocini were all straight into the side were they not? I think the issue was more to do with the lack of further recruits, coupled with the sale of Milner (and the rumour that all of the squad were available at the right price)

Reading between the lines it appears that empty seats and empty corporate boxes in a season of no European football with difficult financial times ahead for the support base meant that for Newcastle the time had come to balance the books, and if that meant transfers out over Keegan's head then so be it. I can't imagine for one minute that Wise and Llambias were acting without Mike Ashley's consent when they accepted the deal for Milner. It seems that Toon fans assumed that because Mike Ashley was worth £1.6bn that he was a sugar daddy who was going to throw money at the club until he could deliver trophies or European football (and perhaps that was based on what he has said in public) but if we are realistic we'll acknowledge that Ashley is ultimately a businessman, and one who is intent on making money, not giving it away.

Perhaps Toon fans can comment on the net transfer spend, I believe more went out than came in?

Also worth noting is the wage bill at Newcastle, with 2007 accounts showing wages accounting for 72% of turnover, well above what is perceived to be a sustainable level within football source. I've said before and I'll repeat it again, Newcastle pay CL wages when they aren't even guaranteed Uefa Cup, that is simply not sustainable in the long term, it's a policy that saw the club slip deeper into debt under the previous regime.

Charlie

Wor Al has finally broken his silence, and it is not good news for Ashley and cohorts. Speaking to the Sun, Shearer has all but ruled himself out for the job citing the same concerns Kev had, and has backed KK in his actions.

He stated:

“This is a very sad situation and Newcastle are in the headlines for the wrong reasons again. Like everyone else, I just don’t know when this will end. And people have been asking this for a long time.

“It seemed it was ending with a big-money owner coming in and the return of the manager everyone wanted in Kevin.

“They had a man there in Kevin who cared so passionately about the football club.

“There are 52,000 supporters there every week and he is on their wavelength. He is one of them and they worship the ground he walks on.

“He can walk away with his head held high, because he did a decent job. But a great opportunity has been missed here. That is very sad.”

Shearer cannot understand why clubs give the responsibility of buying and selling players to someone other than the manager.

The former England hero declared: “From the outside, it seems the breakdown has come because you had a manager who wasn’t allowed to manage fully.

"Nobody knows that football club and the supporters better than Kevin. He is also a very good judge of a player, as he has proved in the past.

“He brought a lot of unknown players into the club and turned them into big players. His record speaks for itself.

“The players will be angry and upset at this situation. I know they got on very well with Kevin.

“There has been talk of a players’ revolt. But they are professionals and employees of Newcastle United and they will go out and do their best. It will be very difficult going, though.

“I feel sorry for the players who have just arrived. Nobody should point the finger at them.”

Shearer cannot see why people in offices get involved with a manager’s main job and points at Manchester United as the blueprint for success.

He said: “Surely when you are trying to make a football club successful, you look at the best and try to mirror that. The best over the last 20 years has been Manchester United.

"They have owners there who supply the money for players, stay in the background and let the manager manage. The results speak for themselves.

“They have one of the best managers in history. Can you imagine someone at the club telling Sir Alex Ferguson who he should buy and sell?

“Sir Alex identifies the players, then the chief executive buys them and sells them. That’s the only way a manager can work.

“We know everyone has budgets and if a manager wants a director of football then fine. But he has to choose him. When a board picks someone, it is a recipe for disaster and I think the result is inevitable.”

leninbenjamin

good posts recklessone.

the DOF system works. it's been proven to work; both in England and abroad. to say it can't work in England just because of the culture or whatever is simply wrong.

Keegan in the past has shown himself to be pretty awful at times in the transfer window; and based on the evidence so far, the acquisitions seem pretty decent, especially when one takes into consideration the current financial climate of the club. and a club doesn't need a DOF to sell players over a managers head; it's happened plenty of times in the past in manager only clubs in England. I think what we simply saw here was a falling out between the various parties; i really think the criticisms of the DOF thing are just Keegan's excuses for leaving a sinking ship.

Charlie

therecklessone wrote: »

Ideally yes, there should be a good relationship between the DOF and the coach. I always doubted the Wise/Keegan duo tbh, Wise because I felt he would struggle to have an impact against some of Europe's heavy hitting sporting directors, but I was told that Jeff Vetere would bring his expertise to the table in pursuing transfer targets, and Keegan because I felt he would not be up to the task of coaching the side.

I'm not too sure anyone has suggested that Keegan did not want any of the players that were bought in to Newcastle, Guthrie/Guiteraz/Collocini were all straight into the side were they not? I think the issue was more to do with the lack of further recruits, coupled with the sale of Milner (and the rumour that all of the squad were available at the right price)

Reading between the lines it appears that empty seats and empty corporate boxes in a season of no European football with difficult financial times ahead for the support base meant that for Newcastle the time had come to balance the books, and if that meant transfers out over Keegan's head then so be it. I can't imagine for one minute that Wise and Llambias were acting without Mike Ashley's consent when they accepted the deal for Milner. It seems that Toon fans assumed that because Mike Ashley was worth £1.6bn that he was a sugar daddy who was going to throw money at the club until he could deliver trophies or European football (and perhaps that was based on what he has said in public) but if we are realistic we'll acknowledge that Ashley is ultimately a businessman, and one who is intent on making money, not giving it away.

Perhaps Toon fans can comment on the net transfer spend, I believe more went out than came in?

Also worth noting is the wage bill at Newcastle, with 2007 accounts showing wages accounting for 72% of turnover, well above what is perceived to be a sustainable level within football source. I've said before and I'll repeat it again, Newcastle pay CL wages when they aren't even guaranteed Uefa Cup, that is simply not sustainable in the long term, it's a policy that saw the club slip deeper into debt under the previous regime.

Your assessment of the situation is there or thereabouts right, apart from the part about doubting Keegan.

Regarding Ashley's net spend. In this Window, he has cleared a profit of nearly £2 million. Over the course of all 3 windows, his net spend is a paltry £10 million. And make no mistake about it, he promised both Keegan, and the fans that money would be no object. Chris Mort the ex chairman has said as much, and Ashley himself said he would back Keegan to the hilt in his only ever interview.

The problem Keegan had, and the fans, was not that we weren't splashing out on Robinhos and the like, but that we failed to get in the absolute basic numbers needed, and to top it all off, we were selling players when the squad was already threadbare. This has gone against everything Ashley has fronted, and it is now clear that he has been prepping the club for a sale for some time now (soe suggesting ever since he took over and got his hand burnt with the debts after failing to carry out due diligence)

Despite what the folks at SSN would like you thinking, most Toon fans are incredibly realistic in terms of expectations and what should be spent. Most, if not all, were happy with the signings of Guthrie, Guti, and Colo. However, all the good work achieved when signing them, was undone when the club failed to bring in the extra 3 or 4 needed for depth, and sells the likes of Milner without replacing him.

My original interpretation of the setup was that Wise and Co looked after the transfers. However, KK was still the one they reported to. He would outline the type of player he would like, they would scour the market matching his requirements and show him who was available. He would say yay or nay. Also, if there was a particular player Keegan wanted, the lads would be sent out to fetch him. Regarding outgoings, I was also under the impression he had the final veto on whether a player left.

I have no major problems with the above setup, as it allows to manger to focus on first team, whilst also ensuring he has a vital input to the recruitment of the players who ultimately, will be playing under him. This is imo the only way a DOF can work in English football. From the events of the last 5 days though, it is clear that this is not what was going on, and it would appear that Ashley is trying to penny pinch to the extreme, so that he outlays no more capital and consequently spends no 'dead money', maximising his return when the club is eventually bought.

To those who say KK can't be trusted in the market, I point to Lee, Batty, Cole, Ferdinand, Ginola, Albert, Beardsley, all of whom were brought in as relatively small name signings, and all of whom were brought in on sensible money. He also managed to convince Shearer to not go to United, and took a Man City side that was free falling though the leagues, and turned them into in a stable EPL and Uefa cup playing side. Did a pretty decent job at Fulham also.

Regarding Wise and Llambias, you would be right in thinking that most of what they have done has been under the orders of the Fat Controller. However, the story that has emerged regarding this whole farce is as follows:

- Keegan was convinced into selling Milner after been given stone wall promises that the money would be reinvested and the players he wanted secured.
- Sometime on Friday or early Saturday, he picked out Schweinsteiger, and Wise is reported to have told him it was a done deal. That his reps were contacted and a move would be arranged
- When Monday arrived (deadline day), Keegan was told that Tony Jiminexz had nixed the Schweinsteiger transfer, and that we would be signing spanish under 21 intl Xisco. Keegan was fuming with this and told him he didn't want the young Spaniard. However, X-man was already in a North East hotel, with a deal being thrashed out.
- Keegan was also informed on Monday that the list of players he had submitted over the window were no longer being pursued, and essentially he should be grateful for what he is given. This again royally pissed him off, but the best was yet to come.
- Keegan at this stage had left St. James as he felt he had no role to play in the bringing in of players. He made the mistake of assuming that there wouldn't be potential outgoing of players as well.
- Sometime in the very early hors of Tuesday morning, Keegan was informed by a number of players agents (presumed to be Barton's and Owen) that they were contacted by Wise and put on alert that their clients were being offered around various clubs.
- This was the final straw and Keegan was now livid. On Tuesday morning, he skipped training and headed to St. James to confront Wise and Llambias over what he had been told by Owen adn Barton's agents. They confirmed it to him, and also informed him that potentially any member of the squad could be sold without his notice, pulling out a file with a price beside every players name. Keegan told them that this was ludicrous, and that they couldn't act in this manner. Wise, being the hothead he is, told Keegan that if he didn't like it, then he was sacked. Keegan responded by saying if I am sacked there is no point in me hanging around here and immediately left St. James. This is where the initial confusion arouse over whether he was sacked or quit.
- With Mike Ashley being out of the country, and the Board realising that they may have fcuked up, they kept stum for hours, only finally releasing that ambiguous statement late on Tuedasy.
- The proceeding meetings were designed to try and keep Kev on Board, but when he made clear to them that he couldn't work under a system where he had no control over who came in and who left, it was clear a choice had to be made by an out of country Ashley between Wise/Jimez and KK.
- We all know how this ended up.

People always question what it is about us Toon fans that make us label Keegan the Messiah, failing to really see what he did for us, and only highlighting the fact that he never won anything for us. The stadium that we now have, the fact that we are firmly established in the EPL, the fact that the media pays so much attention to us, is all down to what Keegan built. When he took over in '92 we were financially on the brink, and looking destined to get relegated into the equivalent of League 1. Keegan somehow managed to keep us up that season. The following season, the side blitzed the old first division, racking up 11 straight wins from the get go, and hockeying teams with scorelines like 7-1 at Leicester. The next season, despite being favorites to go straight back down, he had the team playing beautiful football, and had us finishing third in our debut season in the Premier League. That alone is outstanding when you consider the doom and gloom we had only been facing 24 months previously. The rest of his time with us is probably familiar to most of yous, dubbed 'the entertainer years', but it is because of all this that Newcastle United is where it is today. I know at present things look sh/te, but relatively speaking, Kev saved us from becoming a Sheff Wed, or Notts Forest back then, and then helped us become one of the established Premier League teams that everyone associates with the league. On top of all this, Kev is the only person other than Sir Bobby to treat the fans with the honesty and respect that every set of fans deserve, and truly grasp what Newcastle United the institution is to the City of Newcastle. [/rant]

happydayz182

Carleberg dont do messageboard comments....but if the did^

That cleared up alot:)

Charlie

happydayz182 wrote: »

Carleberg dont do messageboard comments....but if the did^

That cleared up alot:)

Yeah it was pretty mammoth alright, but I wanted to set the record straight on certain issues.

BaZmO*

charlie mchugh wrote: »

My original interpretation of the setup was that Wise and Co looked after the transfers. However, KK was still the one they reported to. He would outline the type of player he would like, they would scour the market matching his requirements and show him who was available. He would say yay or nay. Also, if there was a particular player Keegan wanted, the lads would be sent out to fetch him. Regarding outgoings, I was also under the impression he had the final veto on whether a player left.

But is that not what a team like Man Utd. would do if they wanted a player, the only difference being that the team/person appointed to do this job was not given the title "Director of Football"?

Charlie

Earlier on I posted that Ashley was rumoured to be partying away in NYC on Wed. whilst our club was in meltdown. Whilst I thought there was probably some truth to the story, I administered the requisite dose of salt seeing as it was the tabloids.

Well it is now apparent that the Fat Mong was partying away in NYC while back in Newcastle, the club were hanging KK out to dry, and keeping the fans totally clueless with no one making a statement or appearance. We were assured that the club was making every effort to Keep Keegan on Board. Evi-fucking-dentley not :mad::

Here are the pictures from Today's Sun







And the receipt for his $220,000 Cristal splurge:



I won't say how I feel about the bloke for fear of banning, but suffice to say, this is an absolute pisstake.

SantryRed

Nice club you got there.

BaZmO*

The Heineken is cheap enough.

Charlie

BaZmO* wrote: »

But is that not what a team like Man Utd. would do if they wanted a player, the only difference being that the team/person appointed to do this job was not given the title "Director of Football"?

Not really. I mean, I don't think Keegan hand picked Colo or Spiderman, but he probably outlined that he needed a pacy winger with strength, good tracking back etc., and an internationally experienced defender, certain age, height, etc. Wise and Co. then probably had a look in the market, and came back with these options. At this stage I am unsure whether KK had the final say on them being signed, or if he was just told that's who you're getting.

With Fergie, he says I want Berba, go get him david Gill.

That_Guy

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Earlier on I posted that Ashley was rumoured to be partying away in NYC on Wed. whilst our club was in meltdown. Whilst I thought there was probably some truth to the story, I administered the requisite dose of salt seeing as it was the tabloids.

Well it is now apparent that the Fat Mong was partying away in NYC while back in Newcastle, the club were hanging KK out to dry, and keeping the fans totally clueless with no one making a statement or appearance. We were assured that the club was making every effort to Keep Keegan on Board. Evi-fucking-dentley not :mad::

Here are the pictures from Today's Sun







And the receipt for his $220,000 Cristal splurge:



I won't say how I feel about the bloke for fear of banning, but suffice to say, this is an absolute pisstake.

Furious. :mad::mad::mad:

Charlie

That_Guy wrote: »

Furious. :mad::mad::mad:

As one poster pointed out on another forum I posted the pics on: "Well the fat blivot seems about as popular with the girls as he is with us!!!"

That brought a small grin to my face.

BaZmO*

charlie mchugh wrote: »

Not really. I mean, I don't think Keegan hand picked Colo or Spiderman, but he probably outlined that he needed a pacy winger with strength, good tracking back etc., and an internationally experienced defender, certain age, height, etc. Wise and Co. then probably had a look in the market, and came back with these options. At this stage I am unsure whether KK had the final say on them being signed, or if he was just told that's who you're getting.

With Fergie, he says I want Berba, go get him david Gill.

I hear what you're saying, but in fairness it's chalk and cheese. Utd. have just won the Champion's League while retaining the PL for the umpteenth time as well as being one of the biggest clubs in the world. They can afford to do things like that.

I'm sure the scouting setup works the same as a DOF's role to a certain degree. But I totally agree that the Manager should always have final say in who stays and who goes.


As for getting angry over those photos, what do you expect? The guy is a Billionaire, that's what they do. A drinks bill of $220k in pocket money to someone of his wealth. It's like you spending €100 on a round of drinks.

Charlie

BaZmO* wrote: »

As for getting angry over those photos, what do you expect? The guy is a Billionaire, that's what they do. A drinks bill of $220k in pocket money to someone of his wealth. It's like you spending €100 on a round of drinks.

It's not the money that upsets me though, it is the fact that he was on a jolly lads piss up, all the while NUFC was going into a very public meltdown, and not a soul from the club had made an appearance or put their name to a statement.

From the anoonymous and ambigious statement that was released on Thur.

Newcastle United Football Club is sad and disappointed that Kevin Keegan has resigned.

Over the last few days the Club has devoted itself to the discussions it has held with Kevin and as a result of those discussions had put together a set of practical suggestions for how to move forward.

Today the Club made it clear to Kevin that if he had any outstanding concerns on its proposals, he should raise them with the Club.

The Club regrets that Kevin has, instead of taking up that offer, chosen to resign.

Now that is just a piss take and takes the fans for fools if they think we would belive this bullshine. If Ashley was in anyway serious about resolving the matter, he would have been on the first flight back, and not wobbling the night away on the dance floors of New York City.

This is why I feel KK resigned when he did, and didn't hold out for a compo deal. He became all to aware at how seriously (or lack thereof) Ashley placed in those discussions to find a way forward.

Charlie

The PR maestros at Newcastle United have released another statement

Official NUFC Statement: September 6

NUFC wished, at all times, to keep any dispute that it had with Kevin Keegan private.

It is therefore disappointing that information has reached the media through unnamed sources and a briefing has been given by the League Managers Association that could give rise to a misleading impression amongst the Club's fans.

Newcastle United have no desire to engage in a war of words but inaccurate reporting of factual matters and inaccurate allegations have to be corrected.

It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, on appointment on 16th January 2008, agreed to report to a Director of Football and to the Board.

It is a fact that Kevin Keegan worked within that structure from 16th January 2008 until his resignation.

It is a fact that Kevin Keegan, as manager, had specific duties in that he was responsible for the training, coaching, selection and motivation of the Team.

It is a fact that Kevin Keegan was allowed to manage his specific duties without any interference from any Board member.

It is a fact that Kevin Keegan agreed only to deal with the media in relation to Club matters relating to the Team and not to communicate with the media in relation to the acquisition or disposal of players.

It is a fact that NUFC is a business and operates, like all businesses, with financial constraints.

It is a fact that NUFC's financial constraints inform its transfer dealings.

The Board of NUFC have responsibility to ensure that the club is able to meet its commitments which include the wages and the transfer fees for players.

The structure at NUFC is clear, and has been clear from 16th January 2008.

Are they having a laugh??? The fucking cheek of the ***** talking to us like we are dogs. I am absolutely fuming here, not knowing what to type that wouldn't get me banned.

Why haven't they realised a statement concerning the appalling lack of communication with fans.

Why haven't they realised a statement outlining why not one of Mr. Ashley's many lackeys hasn't faced the cameras or had a single quote to their name.

Why haven't they realised a statement concerning the whereabouts of our owner when our club is in free-fall at the moment!

I'll tell you what is a fact, that these bunch of cretins a are a pack of lying *****. Dennis Wise on Feb. 1st told the Evening Chronicle the following

"I am not here to be involved in the first team. I am not here to manage.

“I am here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players
through and also recommending certain players to him.

“He will say yes or no. He has the final word. No-one else. I am not going
to do things like bring players in behind his back. I am not into that.

“Everything that happens will be run past him and he will say yes or no.

The words from Wise's own mouth makes that pathetic statement look pretty hollow.

Ashley as well has shown himself to be a bare faced liar with his own comments. In an interview that appeared in the September edition of the official Newcastle United magazine he said:

"If the deal is right - and that means the right player who Kevin wants - then we will do that deal. Kevin himself is very particular about who he wants. To use his words, they have to have the right heart for Newcastle. That is massively important for him. If they don't then he's not interested."

Jesus Christ, fuck the lot of them!!:mad:

eagle eye

Its amazing that they come out with that rubbish now after all that has gone on, and they are basically saying that they lied before when they said that all the transfers would be run by KK.

Oh and Charlie, its released not realised;)

~Rebel~

eagle eye wrote: »

Oh and Charlie, its released not realised;)

Id say be careful with your corrections, in his mood he'd kill men for less!


Absolute joke of a situation, they'd be much better off admitting some level of fault and that things have escalated in such a way as they didn't expect, that they're sorry and will try to put things right. The way they're acting now is just alienating the fans further and making themselves look like a*holes.

Charlie

BTW, good man Shay speaking out and backing KK. You could clearly see that the players have been told fcuk all but that they better not speak ill of any of the board, or let their feelings be know, by the nervous expression on his face.

GrumPy

it's a farce. The last statement they posted on the site has me going fúcking crazy too.

Like, wtf?! Are they actually asking the fans to burn Saint J's to the ground?

It baffles me, not even what they said (although it's outrageous) It's the way they said it.

I actually dont know.
I really dont.

That_Guy

This is the biggest f**k you to the fans.

I've been supporting Newcastle for the past 12 years and I've never encountered anything like this.

I'm just so furious right now.

If Ashley claims to be a fan of the club then he should give the fans what they want and leave... and take that farce of a board with him.

aidan24326

That_Guy wrote: »

This is the biggest f**k you to the fans.

I've been supporting Newcastle for the past 12 years and I've never encountered anything like this.

I'm just so furious right now.

If Ashley claims to be a fan of the club then he should give the fans what they want and leave... and take that farce of a board with him.

The board are indeed a farce but I'm not sure I have that much sympathy for Keegan either. The guy has always been a quitter and he just reverted to type when the pressure came on. He should not be given another top job within the game. I think he'd be better off taking a job as a pundit on sky or something.

PHB

To be honest, I see the boards side a little, a little. Keegan no doubt was aware that he wouldn't have control over the transfers. If he wasn't willing to accept that, he should have not taken on the job in the first place.

Charlie

PHB wrote: »

To be honest, I see the boards side a little, a little. Keegan no doubt was aware that he wouldn't have control over the transfers. If he wasn't willing to accept that, he should have not taken on the job in the first place.

Well that contradicts what both the Board and Ashley have said.

Wise:

"I am not here to be involved in the first team. I am not here to manage.

“I am here to help Kevin as much as possible with bringing young players
through and also recommending certain players to him.

“He will say yes or no. He has the final word. No-one else. I am not going
to do things like bring players in behind his back. I am not into that.

“Everything that happens will be run past him and he will say yes or no.

Ashley:

"If the deal is right - and that means the right player who Kevin wants - then we will do that deal. Kevin himself is very particular about who he wants. To use his words, they have to have the right heart for Newcastle. That is massively important for him. If they don't then he's not interested."

I have no doubt Kev was aware that a recruitment team would be put in place. But he was always meant to have final word on who comes and who goes. It's there in black and white from the horses mouth. The events of the last week have shown that not to be the case, and that he was having players bought and sold without any input from himself.

EDIT: Keegan says as much in his latest statement through the LMA:

At the time at which I joined Newcastle United Football Club it was made very clear to me that I would have the final say on player movement in and out of the club

I have no reason to believe Kev is not telling the truth, honesty is one of his traits.

aidan24326 wrote: »

The board are indeed a farce but I'm not sure I have that much sympathy for Keegan either. The guy has always been a quitter and he just reverted to type when the pressure came on. He should not be given another top job within the game. I think he'd be better off taking a job as a pundit on sky or something.

Sigh....this again. So I am assuming you would rather that Keegan just stay there, allow himself to be a puppet, and lie to the fans, all for a few of the rich man's shillings!? Having the guts to walk away from millions of pounds because you are unwilling to sell off your principals, is something to be admired, not criticized for. There are too many people in the game now who let money dictate every iota of the decisions they make.

PHB

Fair enough.

Sully

Looks like some more people leaving. I'm curious as to the effect, if any, this will have.

McDermott leaves Magpies position

Newcastle United have parted company with assistant manager Terry McDermott and reserve team coach Adam Saddler.

The decision comes just four days after manager Kevin Keegan quit St James' Park for the second time.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/7604097.stm

Charlie

Said to see Terry Mc leaving, but not surprised, he is basically KK's best friend. I have no doubt that he wouldn't sticking around the club whilst those parasites are still in charge, so I imagine he was just there for the players for the last few days keeping an eye over things.

Still, he had been with us since '04, and and absolute legend for us as both a player, and a coach form the original KK stint. Just one more reason to see the Fat Controller and Co. get booted back down south.

pesireland

read on one of the threads that Keegan is second favourate to get the job, is everyone missing something or are boyles sports just toying with our heads lol.

Charlie

pesireland wrote: »

read on one of the threads that Keegan is second favourate to get the job, is everyone missing something or are boyles sports just toying with our heads lol.

I think the odds are ike that because of the chances of a takeover. Ashley seems to have wanted to sell for a while, but even if he didn't, the fans are going to make his life miserable now. Should new money come in, with the transfer window closed, what is the gesture they could make to get the Fans onside? Exactly, KK.

pesireland

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I think the odds are ike that because of the chances of a takeover. Ashley seems to have wanted to sell for a while, but even if he didn't, the fans are going to make his life miserable now. Should new money come in, with the transfer window closed, what is the gesture they could make to get the Fans onside? Exactly, KK.

True enough, but i'm sure a new boss will be in place before any take over deal goes through, although just look what happened at Man City, BAM!! Billionaires in a few minutes

monkey9

From irishtimes.com Monday, 8th September, 2008


Chris Hughton has been named caretaker manager of Newcastle following the departures of Terry McDermott and Adam Sadler.

Assistant boss McDermott and reserve team coach Sadler both left St James' in the wake of Kevin Keegan's sensational departure last week.

Keegan resigned citing differences with the board over the club's transfer policy and now close ally McDermott and Sadler have followed him out of the exit door.

McDermott, a former Magpies player, had a long coaching association with the club dating back to Keegan's first stint in charge in 1992.

He also worked under Kenny Dalglish, Graeme Souness, Glenn Roeder and Sam Allardyce at St James' Park.

Former youth team goalkeeper Sadler worked at the club's academy until being promoted by Roeder in 2006.

Former Republic of Ireland and Tottenham assistant manager Hughton will now take caretaker charge of the side for this weekend's clash with Hull with Academy director Richard Money and Academy coach Alan Thompson set to assist him.

leninbenjamin

I think Hughton could be in that caretaker capacity for a good while.

herbieflowers

nah, that Indian bloke will take the club over and King Kev will be reinstated in a beautiful piece of football soap opera!

Charlie

I feel sorry for Chris at the minute. That dressing room will be very low, and someone like Terry Mc was almost part of the woodwork, he has been a link in the chain between our various managers. Chris I am sure will be faced with many questions that he won't be able to answer. It all fcuking stinks.

I am just praying a buyout takes place before Sat. otherwise, this thing is going to get a whole lot messier and a whole lot darker. To think that we were hours away from securing the ADUG only for the Fat Controller to fcuk it all up and change the asking the price!! :mad:

Charlie

leninbenjamin

charlie mchugh wrote: »

I am just praying a buyout takes place before Sat. otherwise, this thing is going to get a whole lot messier and a whole lot darker. To think that we were hours away from securing the ADUG only for the Fat Controller to fcuk it all up and change the asking the price!! :mad:

i would be very surprised tbh if the buyout occurred so quickly. i think Ashley has shown he's going to make it as difficult as possible for potential investors.

Charlie

leninbenjamin wrote: »

i would be very surprised tbh if the buyout occurred so quickly. i think Ashley has shown he's going to make it as difficult as possible for potential investors.

It's hard to know really. I mean look how out of the blue the Citey deal was, or even when Ashley bought us. Then on the other hand, like you say, there is a chance he is going to dig his heels in. If it is the latter, then I can promise you it will be to his financial detriment, with the resulting boycotts, but this might only provoke him to retain ownership, but just allow the team to rot, giving us the ultimate two fingers.

Bahhh!!! It all make me so angry.