What do you think will happen with Aviation?

jackdaw

With OIL becoming critically low, in the next 10 years do you think Air Travel
will become a luxury just for the rich ?? like a return trip to Australia costing about €10,000 ?

or return economy to NYC €4K,- €5 K ?


I'm thinking of doing any long haul travelling i wanna do (liek S.Africa, Australia)
soon cos i think it will be unaffordable in the next few years..

*Kol*

I dont think that things will get that bad. There are too many airlines out there competing. Prices may go up but not to those levels.

Flyer1

Oil prices will fall, the global economy will recover. This downturn will probably get a little worse before it gets better. There will be a demand for new pilots in 2 - 3 years time.

This isn't the first time it's happened. I know oil is at an all time high, but the value of money is so low now it's all relevant.

zig

oil prices have already dropped back big time, its been months since the price hit that all time high.

Flyer1

They're still high !

pclancy

At least 50-80 years of oil left with current reserves and predicted new finds Plenty left for us at least. our kids however will have to hope theres a viable alternative. Air travel cant just cease once oil runs out, some other fuel and method of propulsion will take over. The world couldnt survive without air travel.

jackdaw

That's quite reassuring .. but Govt's need to SERIOUSLY fund alternative
research into other sources of energy/fuel..

Flyer1

They're too busy trying to find new ways to screw us out of " CARBON taxes "

diverdriver

The oil is not running out, certainly not in ten years time. It will be around for the next couple of hundred years. By that time they will have sorted out viable alternatives. That's ongoing now. It's still early days in that field.

As for the Irish government 'doing something' Don't make me laugh:pac: Right now they've fallen for the whole climate change panic thing and are screwing us for carbon taxes.

The biggest risk to your travel plans are green lobby and their agenda. If it was up to them. It will cost 4k to fly to America and only the rich will afford it. They will have got rich selling us overpriced 'green' alternatives!:mad:

pclancy

Its so simple though, i dont know why people worry at all about running out of oil. Simple. They want our money for as long as they can, everyone from oil producers, refiners, manufacturers of engines and technologies that need oil, EVERYTHING related in any way to oil energy...it wont dry up till theyve run out of ways to market it and keep it going. Then "suddenly" a new fuel will appear that they've "just" discovered.

That will then be branded, marketted and sold on to us at just as good a profit as oil. Only then will oil "run" out.

Dont even get me started on carbon taxes and emissions trading...same story....MONEY TO BE MADE FOR THE CORPORATIONS again

If the world really as fair the only people that would benefit from carbon taxes would be us-the consumer and greenpeace

barnicles

Vegetable oil Cessnas?

ian_m

Oil has been running critically low for a very long time. War and speculation cause oil prices to rise and fall, not the actual amount remaining.

I think aviation will be safe for a good while.

Húrin

pclancy wrote: »

The world couldnt survive without air travel.

That's pretty alarmist! So the world would be destroyed without mass aviation?

Mr Benevolent

Rudolph Diesel originally designed his engine to run on veggie oil, so yes, it can be done. Personally my belief is that diesel aero engines (and small Innodyn-type turboprops) are the way forward.

Unfortunately, Thielert, the first big GA diesel engine manufacturer, f*cked up big time and very few trust them now, from the pilots to the authorities. Whoever heard of an engine that requires electrical power to continue running? Morons. Thankfully the Diamond Austro engine will get rid of all that crap.

That said, there have been excellent petrol aero engines on the market for a while now, especially the Rotax series. Electric motors are gaining ground, especially in the glider world, but it'll be a long time before power density becomes high enough to support the Holy Grail - lightweight, powerful and efficient enough to run the motor at 75% for 2+ hours and keep an half hour reserve.

Have a look at this baby. My perfect aircraft:

The Alatus-M SSDR motorglider

Terrontress

Confab wrote: »

Rudolph Diesel originally designed his engine to run on veggie oil, so yes, it can be done. Personally my belief is that diesel aero engines (and small Innodyn-type turboprops) are the way forward.

Unfortunately, Thielert, the first big GA diesel engine manufacturer, f*cked up big time and very few trust them now, from the pilots to the authorities. Whoever heard of an engine that requires electrical power to continue running? Morons. Thankfully the Diamond Austro engine will get rid of all that crap.

That said, there have been excellent petrol aero engines on the market for a while now, especially the Rotax series. Electric motors are gaining ground, especially in the glider world, but it'll be a long time before power density becomes high enough to support the Holy Grail - lightweight, powerful and efficient enough to run the motor at 75% for 2+ hours and keep an half hour reserve.

Have a look at this baby. My perfect aircraft:

The Alatus-M SSDR motorglider

Does the amount of land required to produce vegetable derived fuel not make it unsustainable?

Mr Benevolent

Does the amount of land required to produce vegetable derived fuel not make it unsustainable?

Who cares? We're talking about aviation here!

Húrin

Confab wrote: »

Who cares? We're talking about aviation here!

Well, we're actually talking about economics. Aviation is just a sector of the economy. As is agriculture. Food price increases due to growing fuel crops is a hefty externality.

ImDave

Continuing on this topic, I came accross this very interesting article today on the employee intranet:

CFM56-7B completes biofuel demonstration
09 January 2009

Continental Airlines demonstrated the use of sustainable biofuel to power a commercial aircraft for the first time ever in North America. The demonstration flight -- which is being conducted in partnership with Boeing, GE Aviation/CFM International, and Honeywell's UOP -- marks the first sustainable biofuel demonstration flight by a commercial carrier using a two-engine aircraft, a Boeing 737-800 equipped with CFM International CFM56-7B engines.

"This demonstration flight represents another step in Continental's ongoing commitment to fuel efficiency and environmental responsibility," said Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Larry Kellner. "The technical knowledge we gain today will contribute to a wider understanding of the future for transportation fuels."

The biofuel blend includes components derived from algae and jatropha plants, both sustainable, second-generation sources that do not impact food crops or water resources or contribute to deforestation. The algae oil has been provided by Sapphire Energy, and the jatropha oil by Terasol Energy. This is the first time a commercial carrier will power a flight using fuel derived in part from algae.

During the flight, Continental test pilots successfully engaged the aircraft in a number of normal and non-normal flight maneuvers, such as mid-flight engine shutdown and re-start, and power accelerations and decelerations.

The flight operated with a biofuel blend, which consists of 50 percent biologically-derived fuel and 50 percent traditional jet fuel, in the No. 2 CFM engine. This biofuel blend results in a significant net decrease in carbon emissions relative to traditional jet fuel, as both jatropha and algae consume carbon during their lifecycles.

The aircraft's No. 1 engine will operate on 100 percent traditional jet fuel, allowing the aircraft to compare performance between the biofuel blend and traditional fuel. GE Aviation/CFM worked with Boeing, Continental and UOP for more than nine months to carefully evaluate and test the biofuel in engines on the ground, ensuring no difference in performance.

The biofuel is a "drop-in" fuel, and no modifications to the aircraft or engine are necessary for the flight to operate. The biofuel meets and exceeds specifications necessary for jet fuel, including a flash point and a freezing point appropriate for use in aircraft.

"Through their leadership Continental Airlines is helping aviation pioneer a greener, more diverse fuel supply for the future," said Billy Glover, managing director, Environmental Strategy for Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "Having a broader, more sustainable fuel portfolio is vital to our industry and demonstrating the viability of these renewable fuels addresses that goal, while potentially helping to further reduce environmental impacts."

"UOP's goal with renewable technology is to produce real fuels that perform as well as or better than their petroleum-based alternatives and that leverage the existing fuel infrastructure and fleet technology to lower capital costs and simplify adoption," said General Manager of UOP Renewable Energy and Chemicals Jennifer Holmgren. "With our proven technology and the commitment of aviation leaders like Continental and Boeing, sustainable biofuels for aviation are a real near-term option. We believe that production levels could reach hundreds of millions of gallons per year by 2012."

"We still have a lot of work to do in terms testing various biofuels but we are very pleased with, and encouraged by, the results we have achieved to date," said Eric Bachelet, president and CEO of CFM International. "What we have found is that the second generation fuel being tested comes closer to simulating the characteristics of traditional jet fuel in terms of engine performance and operability, such as fuel consumption, engine start and other parameters. We have also found that engines running this mix emit less smoke even than those fueled by traditional jet fuel."

"The simple combination of sunlight, CO2 and algae to produce a carbon-neutral, renewable fuel source has the potential to profoundly change the petrochemical landscape forever," said Jason Pyle, Sapphire Energy CEO. "Today's flight puts us one step closer to moving away from fossil fuels and energy dependency, and with no impact on the transportation infrastructure, food sources or the environment."

Simtech

For those who might like to keep themselves informed about the realities of the issue, I recommend reading "The Last Oil Shock" by David Strahan. Research before opining. :rolleyes:

derry

Simtech wrote: »

For those who might like to keep themselves informed about the realities of the issue, I recommend reading "The Last Oil Shock" by David Strahan. Research before opining. :rolleyes:

Where do you get off with this profits of doom crap
If you look outside the tiny world of peak oil brigade the piture is very different
one small example of many I could easily find

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/F650ECE5-46FF-4C17-8657-D14BBF3B5820/0/Outlook_oil_fuel_medium_term_Oct08.pdf


A small section on quote for legitimate educational requirements

iata.org wrote:

IATA ECONOMIC BRIEFING OCTOBER 2008
MEDIUM-TERM OUTLOOK FOR OIL AND JET FUEL PRICES
Key points:
�� The rise in oil prices has not been because of ‘peak oil’. Known reserves would last a further 44 years at current rates of consumption with no further discoveries.
�� Much of the rise and subsequent fall in oil prices during 2008 seems to have been driven by a futures market ‘bubble’ not any change in fundamentals, though the rise up to 2007 can be explained by real underlying changes.
�� One key change has been a sharp rise in the cost of finding and extracting oil from new fields. The doubling of oil prices from 2003-2007 can be explained by increased production costs, which is now estimated at $80-90 a barrel.
�� In addition supply-demand conditions have tightened over the same period producing a ‘scarcity’ premium on oil prices over and above the cost of production.
�� OECD oil demand is now falling but this is more than offset by strong Chinese and other developing country demand. On the supply-side stable or falling non-OPEC oil production is increasing the market power of the OPEC cartel. Saudi Arabia needs $60 a barrel oil prices to cover its budget but would fear substantial demand destruction if prices persisted much above $100 a barrel in real terms.
�� Economic weakness in 2009 is expected to weaken both oil market supply-demand conditions and further deflate the futures market ‘bubble’. In the medium term we expect oil prices to remain above production costs at $100 a barrel in 2008$.
<snip>
The world is not running out of oil yet
The rise in oil prices has not been because of ‘peak oil’, the idea that we are fast running out of oil. Last year oil reserves stabilized as new discoveries matched consumption. If no more oil was discovered and we continued to consume at a rate of 85mb/d known oil reserves would still last over 40 years until 2052.

<snip>

I.A.T.A are hardly likely to suggest to airline operators to buy some Airbus 380 or other larger planes if they cant be sure oil wont become scarce inside 10 years.They figure there is definitly eneogh oil without any new finds to see us for another ~40 plus years.

Only this year and the last three years Brazil has found some 4 huge oil fields most not even added to these figures as they havent figured out how big they are . Brazil looks to be able to export as much oil as Venuzalia where a few years ago they were oil importers.The planets swimming in oil most everywhere they drill they find the crap.But oil companies dont want us to know the stuff is so abundant as we would look for much cheaper prices

Tullow oil an Irish outfit has found gobs of the crap oil off Africa and Tullow oil share price total value is now worth more than Bank of Scotaland


Some egg heads in MIT have figured that the world supply of oil will probaly be enough for 1000 years at this rate of consumption and figure we havent found 1% of what is down there to be found


Most Tubine engines are very fuel tolerant and can run on lots of fuel types including Bio fuels with little or no modifications .So clearly with Bio Fuels production set to increase world wide( Thats gonna happen high food prices or no high food prices and the link food price hike isnt for sure as often the land is used is non food growing land ) we can assume except for the odd every decade oil price spike oil companies engineer to gouge us that planes are set to fly for at least fivety years and ticket prices will remain low through most all those fivety years


Also the mpg per passenger equivalents for big planes are interesting .
The A380 550 seater versions are looking to exceed 90MPG per passenger seat(industry standard 80% cappasity ) projections for the 800 seat versions look to be even more possibly as much as 120MPG per passenger seat (industry standard 80% cappasity )


As the long distance planes dont pay tax on the Jet kerosene fuels which make the fuel much cheaper still than fuels like diesel which are taxxed a lot we can expect long distance airplane ticket prices to get even cheaper again

Derry

oztots

I'll start off by saying i am intoxicated.

Other than that i thin that alot of these airlines are displaying bio-fuel tolerant engines as some sort of breakthrough. They could always run on the stuff, but now with the green brigade out they all want to be seen doing something. Just as toyota is a green company that produces a few inefficient hybrids and thousands of gas guzzling jeeps, yet the world loves them for it.

I'm sorry to anybody who asked me to read through something that is not on this page, my brain is strained by that ethanol stuff, turns out humans have been using the stuff for ages, yet it doesn't help us read!

The industry will last, i hope it will being a future aero eng. However it will become less necessary for business as teschnology for video conferencing becomes more available. The avaition is now fueled by people wanting to get away from their country, see the world. All the same, somebody in person for a meeting is far better.

And gliders, cool and all, but winter means no go, thermals are a killer when they're not there.

and and, screw it i cant remember what i read a few minutes ago.

Wait no, algae, cool. But i bet they knew that years ago and didnt say a word, the price of oil was alot of investors sticking money into it while it was rising, making the media scream "NO OIL LEFT", I'm sounding a bit like RTDH, so i'll hit submit.....now

abuse welcome tomorrow while im over england.

oztots

oztots wrote: »

Wait no, algae, cool. But i bet they knew that years ago and didnt say a word, the price of oil was alot of investors sticking money into it while it was rising, making the media scream "NO OIL LEFT", I'm sounding a bit like RTDH, so i'll hit submit.....now

I disagree with my past self, every time an "Oil Crisis" develops so does fuel technology. Happened before with super effiecient engines and cars in the OPEC crisis (for the time). Oil prices fell and funding dropped away, people forgot. So there is genuine work being done by genuine engineers, just that in a year, if the oil prices are the same, people wont care.

Simtech

derry wrote: »

Where do you get off with this profits of doom crap
If you look outside the tiny world of peak oil brigade the piture is very different
one small example of many I could easily find

http://www.iata.org/NR/rdonlyres/F650ECE5-46FF-4C17-8657-D14BBF3B5820/0/Outlook_oil_fuel_medium_term_Oct08.pdf


A small section on quote for legitimate educational requirements



I.A.T.A are hardly likely to suggest to airline operators to buy some Airbus 380 or other larger planes if they cant be sure oil wont become scarce inside 10 years.They figure there is definitly eneogh oil without any new finds to see us for another ~40 plus years.

Only this year and the last three years Brazil has found some 4 huge oil fields most not even added to these figures as they havent figured out how big they are . Brazil looks to be able to export as much oil as Venuzalia where a few years ago they were oil importers.The planets swimming in oil most everywhere they drill they find the crap.But oil companies dont want us to know the stuff is so abundant as we would look for much cheaper prices

Tullow oil an Irish outfit has found gobs of the crap oil off Africa and Tullow oil share price total value is now worth more than Bank of Scotaland


Some egg heads in MIT have figured that the world supply of oil will probaly be enough for 1000 years at this rate of consumption and figure we havent found 1% of what is down there to be found


Most Tubine engines are very fuel tolerant and can run on lots of fuel types including Bio fuels with little or no modifications .So clearly with Bio Fuels production set to increase world wide( Thats gonna happen high food prices or no high food prices and the link food price hike isnt for sure as often the land is used is non food growing land ) we can assume except for the odd every decade oil price spike oil companies engineer to gouge us that planes are set to fly for at least fivety years and ticket prices will remain low through most all those fivety years


Also the mpg per passenger equivalents for big planes are interesting .
The A380 550 seater versions are looking to exceed 90MPG per passenger seat(industry standard 80% cappasity ) projections for the 800 seat versions look to be even more possibly as much as 120MPG per passenger seat (industry standard 80% cappasity )


As the long distance planes dont pay tax on the Jet kerosene fuels which make the fuel much cheaper still than fuels like diesel which are taxxed a lot we can expect long distance airplane ticket prices to get even cheaper again

Derry

Just as a matter of interest, did you actually read the book or just take an uninformed stance based on little information? Have you read any books? Just how many years is "fivety"?? :rolleyes: Your obvious intelligence defeats me. Please accept my humble apologies. LOL!

oztots

Simtech wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, did you actually read the book or just take an uninformed stance based on little information? Have you read any books? Just how many years is "fivety"?? :rolleyes: Your obvious intelligence defeats me. Please accept my humble apologies. LOL!

I think fivety is a nice figure, sort of fivish but more official sounding. Or it could be 10 years more than fourty, then he'd be making a mistake.

derry

Simtech wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, did you actually read the book or just take an uninformed stance based on little information? Have you read any books? Just how many years is "fivety"?? :rolleyes: Your obvious intelligence defeats me. Please accept my humble apologies. LOL!

Over many years I have read lots of stuff on peak oil long before it was a trendy thing to do.

When I get time I will try to fit that particular book in.Bet its more of the same rehash of the projections that they sourvce from the oil companies. As most oil companies are not exactly going to open up thier souls and tell exactly what reserves they have those projections can be as much as 200% out.With that much fudge factor you want me to try to buy into a subject that is fudge factored all over the gaff.
Or one can look at the fact that as early as 1911 when the first oil wells were found and they projected the peak oil then 100 years later they still showing us this moving target peak oil.

Naw seems to me that if Brazil can find very big oil fields the last few years and Tullow oil can find very big oil feilds in west Africa in the same time slot and most every few years oil exploration finds very big oil feilds somewhere it looks like we are a long long way from peak oil .Even with worst case projections to try to find peak oil it might be in ~2099 more likely ~2500. Even most kids born in 2000 will be dead in 2099 so peak oil isnt a worry for me or the planet any time soon


Derry

Simtech

12 January 2009 – Tullow Oil plc (Tullow) announces that the Hyedua-2 well, which has been drilled to appraise the Jubilee field offshore Ghana, flowed at a stable rate of 16,750 bopd. This result confirms good reservoir connectivity and very high productivity and also indicates that future production well deliverability will be in excess of 20,000 bopd.
(http://www.tullowoil.com/tlw/media/news/2009/2009-01-12/)


"The Papa-Terra field was found in the Campos Basin, which is already Brazil's most important oil-producing region.
Petrobras estimates it contains at least 700 million barrels of crude - about 10% of Brazil's current reserves." [...]
"The new field is expected to help Petrobras achieve its goal of making Brazil self-sufficient in oil. Since 2003, the company has been meeting 91% of the country's needs." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4563896.stm)


In 2006 the world consumed roughly 85 million bpd. So the Brazil find, if indeed the figures are not overstated and that much is actually recoverable, is what, ten or twelve days worth?

Thank God. We're saved. :rolleyes: Well, Brazil is saved anyway. Good for them.

derry

Simtech wrote: »

12 January 2009 – Tullow Oil plc (Tullow) announces that the Hyedua-2 well, which has been drilled to appraise the Jubilee field offshore Ghana, flowed at a stable rate of 16,750 bopd. This result confirms good reservoir connectivity and very high productivity and also indicates that future production well deliverability will be in excess of 20,000 bopd.
(http://www.tullowoil.com/tlw/media/news/2009/2009-01-12/)


"The Papa-Terra field was found in the Campos Basin, which is already Brazil's most important oil-producing region.
Petrobras estimates it contains at least 700 million barrels of crude - about 10% of Brazil's current reserves." [...]
"The new field is expected to help Petrobras achieve its goal of making Brazil self-sufficient in oil. Since 2003, the company has been meeting 91% of the country's needs." (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4563896.stm)


In 2006 the world consumed roughly 85 million bpd. So the Brazil find, if indeed the figures are not overstated and that much is actually recoverable, is what, ten or twelve days worth?

Thank God. We're saved. :rolleyes: Well, Brazil is saved anyway. Good for them.

typical stupid link

" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4563896.stm)

dated 2005

from 2005 to 2007 the world oil reporting market did all it could to supress the other finds Brazil had made as they were gouging our eyes out with expensive oil. The last thing oil industry wanted was too much publicity the other field were a lot bigger than this out of date 2005 link as they wanted to keep oil prices as high as possible with the oil is running out drum.The last thing you need when oil is precieved to be scarce and the twots will pay more for it is lots of big new oil finds news alerts flashing up which can drive prices down in a oil price spike

Now that the price has fallen Oil companies flush with cash will now flood the world with cheaper oil and new found fields and "oh those older field are bigger than we thought "so reserves get bumped up for 10 years period or so to help kill of alternitives to oil . Then a decade later oil will be starting another steep oil price spike with another beat the drum oil is running out and employ yet again lots of oil peak book writers to fool us to pay more for fuel

Three card trickersters oil supply companies are not going to tell you how much oil reserves they got(looks like ~200 years reserves ) because if you knew they already got a Suadia arabian sized oil field inin Alaska ( USA)(eneogh to keep USA going for 200 years ) you would say why would you pay so much for oil

Suckers read oil peak books and actualy belive that tripe

here is link that shows some histrory

Spikes happen and often hidden in other factors but the trend is spikes are engineered and dont just happen as us plebs are led to believe

The suez cris spike isnt so big but for its time it was big interms of the value of dollar at the time

http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif

The planets swimming in oil

derry

Simtech

derry wrote: »

typical stupid link

" (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4563896.stm)

dated 2005

from 2005 to 2007 the world oil reporting market did all it could to supress the other finds Brazil had made as they were gouging our eyes out with expensive oil. The last thing oil industry wanted was too much publicity the other field were a lot bigger than this out of date 2005 link as they wanted to keep oil prices as high as possible with the oil is running out drum.The last thing you need when oil is precieved to be scarce and the twots will pay more for it is lots of big new oil finds news alerts flashing up which can drive prices down in a oil price spike

Now that the price has fallen Oil companies flush with cash will now flood the world with cheaper oil and new found fields and "oh those older field are bigger than we thought "so reserves get bumped up for 10 years period or so to help kill of alternitives to oil . Then a decade later oil will be starting another steep oil price spike with another beat the drum oil is running out and employ yet again lots of oil peak book writers to fool us to pay more for fuel

Three card trickersters oil supply companies are not going to tell you how much oil reserves they got(looks like ~200 years reserves ) because if you knew they already got a Suadia arabian sized oil field inin Alaska ( USA)(eneogh to keep USA going for 200 years ) you would say why would you pay so much for oil

Suckers read oil peak books and actualy belive that tripe

here is link that shows some histrory

Spikes happen and often hidden in other factors but the trend is spikes are engineered and dont just happen as us plebs are led to believe

The suez cris spike isnt so big but for its time it was big interms of the value of dollar at the time

http://www.wtrg.com/oil_graphs/oilprice1947.gif

The planets swimming in oil

derry

Aaaah ha. The third man on the grassy knoll. Elvis aint dead. Diana was murdered. I see no, it's all so clear. All you need to do now Derry, is get your hands on a big drill and head on out into the back garden. Surely it won't be long until you're on the rich list.

Bored now. Take care out there, we wouldn't want you drowning in the sea of oil.

derry

Simtech wrote: »

Aaaah ha. The third man on the grassy knoll. Elvis aint dead. Diana was murdered. I see no, it's all so clear. All you need to do now Derry, is get your hands on a big drill and head on out into the back garden. Surely it won't be long until you're on the rich list.

Bored now. Take care out there, we wouldn't want you drowning in the sea of oil.

a extract of how big the Brazil oil find is april 2008

http://peakoil.blogspot.com/2008/04/brazil-oil-finds-may-end-reliance-on.html
quote for legitimate educational reguirements from peakoil blogspot /bloomberg
Thursday, April 24, 2008
Brazil Oil Finds May End Reliance on Middle East, Zeihan Says

Bloomberg.com

By Joe Carroll

Brazil's discoveries of what may be two of the world's three biggest oil finds in the past 30 years could help end the Western Hemisphere's reliance on Middle East crude, Strategic Forecasting Inc. said.

<snip>

Brazil's state-controlled Petroleo Brasileiro SA in November said the offshore Tupi field may hold 8 billion barrels of recoverable crude. Among discoveries in the past 30 years, only the 15-billion-barrel Kashagan field in Kazakhstan is larger.

<snip>
“The finds they've got so far are just the tip of the iceberg,'' Zeihan said. “Brazil is going to change the balance of the global oil markets, and Petrobras will become a geopolitical supermajor.''

end quote


And reports are coming in that the finds are even bigger than that

put that in your pipe and smoke it

Derry