Mic-ing an upright piano

JJV

Can anyone offer any tips on recording an upright. It's a recently tuned, modern Kawai and all the panels are removable - if need be. I have ordered a stereo pair of Rode NT55s as this will allow me to experiment with omni & cardioid polar patterns. I plan to plug the mics into an RME Fireface 800 interface (stand alone) & then digitally into a DAT recorder. The room is largish & very lively but not in an unpleasant way.

Any suggestions gladly received. I have heard that uprights very often sound unsatisfactorily "honky-tonk" when recorded & this is the last thing I'm looking for. I love the Thomas Newman "Road to Perdition," "American Beauty" piano sound, but suspect that this certainly a) a grand & b) heavily processed.

Also, is there anyone in Ireland who masters classical recordings & the like.

Thanks

JJ

jtsuited

JJV wrote: »

Can anyone offer any tips on recording an upright. It's a recently tuned, modern Kawai and all the panels are removable - if need be. I have ordered a stereo pair of Rode NT55s as this will allow me to experiment with omni & cardioid polar patterns. I plan to plug the mics into an RME Fireface 800 interface (stand alone) & then digitally into a DAT recorder. The room is largish & very lively but not in an unpleasant way.

Any suggestions gladly received. I have heard that uprights very often sound unsatisfactorily "honky-tonk" when recorded & this is the last thing I'm looking for. I love the Thomas Newman "Road to Perdition," "American Beauty" piano sound, but suspect that this certainly a) a grand & b) heavily processed.

Also, is there anyone in Ireland who masters classical recordings & the like.

Thanks

JJ

Just personal preference here, but what I used to do was tear off the upper panels and put a stereo pair sort of hanging over the players shoulders. Then I'd stick some ambient mics a bit further back.

I use to use 184's for the pair and a U87 as the ambient mic. I liked the sound but for your american beauty type piano might need a good bit of tweaking.

You say the room is live-ish and not unpleasant so use that to your advantage. Experiment with a stereo pair and some ambient mics is what I'd say.

Oh and be careful the sustain pedal isn't noisy. I've had a good few recordings ruined by that.

PaulBrewer

JJV wrote: »

Can anyone offer any tips on recording an upright. It's a recently tuned, modern Kawai and all the panels are removable - if need be. I have ordered a stereo pair of Rode NT55s as this will allow me to experiment with omni & cardioid polar patterns. I plan to plug the mics into an RME Fireface 800 interface (stand alone) & then digitally into a DAT recorder. The room is largish & very lively but not in an unpleasant way.

Any suggestions gladly received. I have heard that uprights very often sound unsatisfactorily "honky-tonk" when recorded & this is the last thing I'm looking for. I love the Thomas Newman "Road to Perdition," "American Beauty" piano sound, but suspect that this certainly a) a grand & b) heavily processed.

Also, is there anyone in Ireland who masters classical recordings & the like.

Thanks

JJ

Harry Bradshaw is yer man. Ex Rte , full of music and stories. A gentleman. I'll send you his number.

PaulBrewer

JJV wrote: »

"honky-tonk"

The Honky Tonk sound is just being out of tune/whack. Neither should be an issue with your Joanna.

ogy

pianos generally sound honky tonky when the soundboard has been warped due to keeping it in a bad environment/humidity (like a saloon:))

PaulBrewer

ogy wrote: »

pianos generally sound honky tonky when the soundboard has been warped due to keeping it in a bad environment/humidity (like a saloon:))

Often bullets, blood, single malt whisky, skin and hair impregnating the Joanna's innards can contribute to the 'Honky Tonk' sound .... especially bullets

studiorat

Hi JJ,
I find a stereo pair facing the soundboard from behind is a nice natural sound.

prolly not bright enough to fit into a mix though.
Get it away from the wall and face it into the room and try the stereo pair facing the sound board.

JJV

jtsuited wrote: »

I use to use 184's for the pair and a U87 as the ambient mic. I liked the sound but for your american beauty type piano might need a good bit of tweaking.

Thanks for the advice gents. I presume you didn't literally hang the mics over the pianist's shoulders! Did you point the mics towards the front of the soundboard? Spaced pair? I note the 184's are cardioid. I hope that the NT55s in omni will give more of the room's ambience without having to resort to more than stereo mics.

studiorat wrote: »

Hi JJ,
I find a stereo pair facing the soundboard from behind is a nice natural sound.

Cardioid or omni? Coincident or spaced? I reckon a crossed pair just above the pianist's head with the panels removed might also yield a good result.
If anyone is interested I could post some mp3 examples using different perspectives & polar patterns.

Thanks again.

jtsuited

JJV wrote: »

Thanks for the advice gents. I presume you didn't literally hang the mics over the pianist's shoulders! Did you point the mics towards the front of the soundboard? Spaced pair?

You presume correct.
Yeah pointed at the soundboard.
I used a space pair but be careful as you can get some comb filtering/phase problems if you're not careful.

I was in a small enough/crap sounding room, so went for cardioids. I've mic'd a proper grand with just a coincident pair of 184's in the NCH. Worked a treat for the type of performance it was.

There is a certain amount of experimentation allowable, depending on what type of sound you are going for.

How purist classical are you going for?

jtsuited

oh and actually if you want to know if you're having phase problems the low end in the centre of the stereo image will be a dead giveaway on a piano. It'll sound fairly weak if there's a good bit of cancellation going on.

studiorat

Sorry,
Spaced cardioid.

jtsuited

JJV wrote: »

Also, is there anyone in Ireland who masters classical recordings & the like.

Mastering is a bad word you should be careful about mentioning around a lot of classical musicians who know their stuff.

Even for broadcast quality stuff, the TC Electronic Finalizer very subtly employed to give a lift in the high end is about as far as mastering goes for pretty much everything you hear broadcasted on Lyric Fm at the moment.

iquinn

JJV wrote: »

Can anyone offer any tips on recording an upright. It's a recently tuned, modern Kawai and all the panels are removable - if need be. I have ordered a stereo pair of Rode NT55s as this will allow me to experiment with omni & cardioid polar patterns. I plan to plug the mics into an RME Fireface 800 interface (stand alone) & then digitally into a DAT recorder. The room is largish & very lively but not in an unpleasant way.

Any suggestions gladly received. I have heard that uprights very often sound unsatisfactorily "honky-tonk" when recorded & this is the last thing I'm looking for. I love the Thomas Newman "Road to Perdition," "American Beauty" piano sound, but suspect that this certainly a) a grand & b) heavily processed.

Also, is there anyone in Ireland who masters classical recordings & the like.

Thanks

JJ

by the by, if you're recording into a pc/mac why are you transferring to DAT?

JJV

iquinn wrote: »

by the by, if you're recording into a pc/mac why are you transferring to DAT?

Plan was to circumvent the Mac altogether, just use the FF800's pres & converters straight into the DAT recorder.

iquinn

JJV wrote: »

Plan was to circumvent the Mac altogether, just use the FF800's pres & converters straight into the DAT recorder.

ah i see.
I'd maybe record in parallel into your mac if possible, in case there's playback issues when you send your DAT off to be mastered.
just as a precaution.

PaulBrewer

DAT? Digital Awful Tape?

Go 24 bit and top sample rate and just send that file to mastering ...