This is a stupid thread

NabyLadistheman

Stekelly wrote: »

My only issue with what Keane did was the type of tackle. Knee high with studs. Had he just hit him hard in a couple of 50-50's theres no issue.

+1

~Rebel~

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not going to bother reading this entire thread as I know it's going to involve Liverpool fans staunchly defending Mr Carragher but my take on it is that what he did was just as bad as what Keane did with Haaland.

Ask Haaland and Song, I'm not sure they'd agree.

Anyone who doesn't agree that this happens in every team in the world once in a while is wrong. Training ground spats happen. Plenty of people here have already admitted it happens at their club, or that they've done it themselves, including myself. Its an aggressive adrenaline fueled sport, these things happen.

Carra's only real fault was in allowing this piece to be one of the serialised bits. Id imagine there wouldn't even be a big deal if it was in the book, but not serialised in the tabloids.

DeadSkin

kida wrote: »

now - post the similarities

Mr Alan wrote: »

emm, both are good footballers? usually play in red? both came to light from an autobiography?

Don't forget the pretty obvious premeditated & intent

kida

Stekelly wrote: »

My only issue with what Keane did was the type of tackle. Knee high with studs. Had he just hit him hard in a couple of 50-50's theres no issue.

I have no issue talking about any time I'v ehit a player in a tackle. It's not braggin, it's a conversation. If he books were full of "monday I went training, then I wet shopping, hom eto bed at 10, tuesday.........."etc etc they would be cra. If I am reading a book about a footballer, it's a person or subject I'm really interested in. I like to know how and what these people think, what drives them and what goes through their headfs in situations, aswell as getting little stories tha you otherwise wouldnt hear, good and bad.

I'm a great admirer of Keane and his winning attitude. I read the book to get an insight into what makes him tick, not the dietry and work schedule of a prem footballer.

I know you have not read the full thread so will repeat what I said earlier - Keanes punishment wasn't for the tackle(that was dealt with with a red card) - it was for what he wrot ein the book

Roar

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Ask Haaland and Song, I'm not sure they'd agree.

Anyone who doesn't agree that this happens in every team in the world once in a while is wrong. Training ground spats happen. Plenty of people here have already admitted it happens at their club, or that they've done it themselves, including myself. Its an aggressive adrenaline fueled sport, these things happen.

Carra's only real fault was in allowing this piece to be one of the serialised bits. Id imagine there wouldn't even be a big deal if it was in the book, but not serialised in the tabloids.

fault? the point of serialising books like this is to take the juiciest bits out of them, get people talking about it which in turn makes people buy the book.

judging by this thread alone, it certainly seems to have worked.

serialisation is supposed to create a big deal, if it helps sell some more copies i'm sure "carra" won't mind.

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote: »

My only issue with what Keane did was the type of tackle. Knee high with studs. Had he just hit him hard in a couple of 50-50's theres no issue.

Did you agree with Keane being punished for WRITING ABOUT INTENTIONALLY INJURING A PLAYER? Because thats what his 150k fine and 3 game ban was for. Since carragher has done the exact same thing surely he should get the same amount in a fine and a 3 match ban?

Roar wrote: »

fault? the point of serialising books like this is to take the juiciest bits out of them, get people talking about it which in turn makes people buy the book.

judging by this thread alone, it certainly seems to have worked.

serialisation is supposed to create a big deal, if it helps sell some more copies i'm sure "carra" won't mind.

In other words he profits from admitting to intentionally hurting a fellow professional, same as what Keane was criticised for?

~Rebel~

Fall_Guy wrote: »

1) He would wait for a 50/50 tackle to make it look like he had some interest in getting the ball. Only makes sense really.

This is completely your opinion with no basis in fact whatsoever. What do we KNOW about what happened? Carra was pissed with Song. There was a 50/50 challenge where carra went in hard. The end. The incident was never mentioned ever until now when Carra himself brought it up. Cara May have gone in hard and won the ball, maybe he missed the ball entirely and broke both Songs legs. We Don't Know. Given that it was never an issue and never brought up its probably safer to say this was just yet another one of those incidences that happens all the time in training.

Thanx 4 The Fish

But it is not exactly the same thing.

It did not take place in an FA sanctioned game. There was no complaint from Song. The guy could walk afterwards :rolleyes:

Thanx 4 The Fish

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

But it is not exactly the same thing.

It did not take place in an FA sanctioned game. There was no complaint from Song. The guy could walk afterwards :rolleyes:

Not the point.


Point is he wrote in his book about how he deliberately set out to hurt a fellow professional. Thats what Keane was fined and banned for, not the tackle.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Did you agree with Keane being punished for WRITING ABOUT INTENTIONALLY INJURING A PLAYER? Because thats what his 150k fine and 3 game ban was for. Since carragher has done the exact same thing surely he should get the same amount in a fine and a 3 match ban?

?

What has what I worte got to do with Keanes punishement. I'll use caps like you did to make my point. MY (see MY, not, the Fa or anyone else, the post was about MY opinion) ONLY PROBLEM WAS THE NATURE OF THE TACKLE>

Guy:Incognito

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

It did not take place in an FA sanctioned game. There was no complaint from Song. The guy could walk afterwards :rolleyes:

Maybe thats why he was ****e?

Deleted User wrote: »

Not the point.


Point is he wrote in his book about how he deliberately set out to hurt a fellow professional. Thats what Keane was fined and banned for, not the tackle.

Seeing as it was in training it's probably about as relevant to the FA as if he decked Song on the street while out shopping.

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote: »

What has what I worte got to do with Keanes punishement. I'll use caps like you did to make my point. MY (see MY, not, the Fa or anyone else, the post was about MY opinion) ONLY PROBLEM WAS THE NATURE OF THE TACKLE>

I asked you a question and used the caps to highlight it for the benefit of some of the slower members of the soccer forum who cant seem to get that point into their head. Sorry, it wasnt directed at you, merely the question itself. The highlighting was done so that anyone else who was gonna quote me on it can't beat around that issue seeing as i've noticed a fair few people doing just that so far.

kida

Deleted User wrote: »

I asked you a question and used the caps to highlight it for the benefit of some of the slower members of the soccer forum who cant seem to get that point into their head. Sorry, it wasnt directed at you, merely the question itself. The highlighting was done so that anyone else who was gonna quote me on it can't beat around that issue seeing as i've noticed a fair few people doing just that so far.

very true - everyone wants to focus on the tackle - which is actualyl irrelevant

Stekelly

Stekelly wrote: »

Seeing as it was in training it's probably about as relevant to the FA as if he decked Song on the street while out shopping.

Em, Joey Barton was charged with violent conduct for decking a team mate in training.

podge018

Kinetic^ wrote: »

It was clear from what he said that if a tackle presented itself, he was going for the person and not the ball. Then writing about it is retarded, surely he would've learned from what happened to Keane.

(note: football fan, not a liverpool/man utd fan)

Why did Carragher wait for a 50-50 then and not just do him in a 70-30 like I said earlier. He was risking injuring himself as much in the 50-50. Keane risked nothing and just milled AIH.

Guy:Incognito

Deleted User wrote: »

Em, Joey Barton was charged with violent conduct for decking a team mate in training.

Was that not after a complaint was lodged?

Also , that portion of the conversation was about the fa talkign action over him admitting to deliberately hurting a player in a tackle in training in a book, not the actual tackle itself.

Keith186

Well he didn't take the piss out of him again, just some playful banter!

Mr Alan

Deleted User wrote: »

Point is he wrote in his book about how he deliberately set out to hurt a fellow professional. Thats what Keane was fined and banned for, not the tackle.

Mc Grath also wrote about going in deliberatly hard on people in his book to hurt them and let them know he was there, as did Tony Adams, as did Tommy Smith....in fact i'd imagine every tough tackling player would write it and has done it.

there is a massive difference between going in hard on someone, and wat keane did.

i'm finished with this thread

missingtime

is this still goin on.
Its becoming like the barry thread.

lordgoat

Same punishment as Keane if right was right. He could have lifted the sentence straight from Keanes book. Waited for an opportunity and hit him. Regardless of how bad the tackle was it's the intent behind it. IF it had broken Songs leg we would have heard about it before now and the fact he didn't seriously injure a teammate (how classless as well) should not excuse what he did.

Also If Keane and Haaland were on the same team i'm sure he wouldn't have had to wait months for the tackle. I am by no means condoning Keanes action. It was a disgusting thing to do.

SantryRed

Keane went to do him.

Carragher went to do him but not as bad.

Both are equally as bad but can't warrant the same punishment as one was training and one was a PL match.

That's the story yeah?

Pointless thread.

Guy:Incognito

lordgoat wrote: »

Same punishment as Keane if right was right. He could have lifted the sentence straight from Keanes book. Waited for an opportunity and hit him. Regardless of how bad the tackle was it's the intent behind it. IF it had broken Songs leg we would have heard about it before now and the fact he didn't seriously injure a teammate (how classless as well) should not excuse what he did.

Also If Keane and Haaland were on the same team i'm sure he wouldn't have had to wait months for the tackle. I am by no means condoning Keanes action. It was a disgusting thing to do.

All footballers do what Keane and Carragher did. Keane just went about it wrong with an over the top challenge and with the lenght of time . It's generally durign the same game that it happens.

lordgoat

All footballers put in tackles like Keane did ? Are you serious? I've been playing ball for a long time and i like to tackle. I play fair and i play hard, there's nothing wrong with that. I've gotten riled up plenty of times and riled people up more often than not but i've never went into a tackle to 'do' someone or intentionaly hurt them.

[the you in the next part does not refer to any specific poster]
This is what both Keane and Carragher said they did. You can try and twist the words all you want but that's what it boils down to. Taking the players names out of it the circumstances have alot of similarities and i think more liverpool fans would agree if it wasn't to Keane the comparison was being drawn.

copacetic

lordgoat wrote: »

[the you in the next part does not refer to any specific poster]
This is what both Keane and Carragher said they did. You can try and twist the words all you want but that's what it boils down to. Taking the players names out of it the circumstances have alot of similarities and i think more liverpool fans would agree if it wasn't to Keane the comparison was being drawn.

Can't believe this is still going on, but taking the names out of it the only similarity is that some ghost writer put the same words in both of their mouths.

Keanes tackle was live on TV, seen my millions and seriously injured the player he tried to 'do'.

Carras tackle may or may not have even happened, there is certainly no actual evidence that it did.

Guy:Incognito

lordgoat wrote: »

All footballers put in tackles like Keane did ? Are you serious?.

I did qualify it by saying that in Keanes case it was the manner of the tackle that set him apart (In a bad way.Knee high studs up). The principal of hitting someone in a tackle to get them back is what I meant.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

JimiTime

I remember hearing Joe Kinnear defending the behaviour of Vinnie Jones. I suppose when people just can't see the woods from the tree's they'll pretty much make up anything. I think this would happen with certain elements of fans with most clubs.

Intentionally setting out to hurt a player = pr!ck. Pure and simple. Its an act that deserves to be punished.

I can take it, that the rose tinted specs brigade, think/pretend that carra didn't set out to hurt Song. (As silly as they sound) At least thats better than defending people who they do believe intentionally set out to hurt someone.

Anyone who believes that he did set out to hurt Song, but defend his actions anyway, are a cancer on the game. Its a cowards challenge.

Thanx 4 The Fish

What was a cowards challenge? Have you some kind of evidence that this challenge even took place? That it was as bad a achllenge as the person who is trying to seel a book is making out? How do you know that he is not just bigging up a 50-50 that may or may not even have occurred?

JimiTime

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

What was a cowards challenge? Have you some kind of evidence that this challenge even took place? That it was as bad a achllenge as the person who is trying to seel a book is making out? How do you know that he is not just bigging up a 50-50 that may or may not even have occurred?

Its all about what is written. If he's just being a bigger pr@t and pretending that this happened so that he comes accross as a hard man (in his head), then thats another issue all together. Obviously though, this is all about the evidence we have I.E. carraghers word. If he's talking sh!te, then all this discussion means nothing. But if it happened as he said, it was an act of cowardice, and I hope the FA take action over his bragging about it.

~Rebel~

JimiTime wrote: »

Its all about what is written. If he's just being a bigger pr@t and pretending that this happened so that he comes accross as a hard man (in his head), then thats another issue all together. Obviously though, this is all about the evidence we have I.E. carraghers word. If he's talking sh!te, then all this discussion means nothing. But if it happened as he said, it was an act of cowardice, and I hope the FA take action over his bragging about it.

all this discussion means nothing anyway.

MrPillowTalk

Karmafaerie wrote: »

When I manage to put the ball past a fullback and get a cross in, I call that doing the full back!

When I wash up after the dinner, I call that doing the dishes!

Didn't know it made me a scumbag thug!!!

Do you yell at the dishes "take that you clean ****ing c unts!!" the intention to hurt is clear dont be so obtuse.

ditpoker

i'm hoping this has been posted elsewhere in the thread but havent read the whole thing (apologies, its late).

There is a very obvious reason this is written this way, and its very obvious why this is the extract syndicated in the papers prior to its release. it is 1000000% marketing. its gets people making the comparison, talking about it, etc etc, and now, look how many people know Jamie Carragher has a book coming out. Do you reckon many people will buy it? do you reckon more people will buy it as a result of this???

MrPillowTalk

1) Keane did not end Haalands carreer so everyone saying he did is talking sh1te.

2) Those saying that Caras is diferent because it wasnt months later are talking sh1te, Keane "did" him first chance he got same as Cara.

3) Those fixating on the severity of the Keane challenge are missing the point he was banned and fined for bringing the game into disrepute and profiting from intentionally hurting another player, EXACTLY the same as what Cara has done. The severity of either tackle is beside the point the INTENT is what is wrong.

super_furry

Ah the good old soccer board.

Don't ever change.

kida

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

1) Keane did not end Haalands carreer so everyone saying he did is talking sh1te.

2) Those saying that Caras is diferent because it wasnt months later are talking sh1te, Keane "did" him first chance he got same as Cara.

3) Those fixating on the severity of the Keane challenge are missing the point he was banned and fined for bringing the game into disrepute and profiting from intentionally hurting another player, EXACTLY the same as what Cara has done. The severity of either tackle is beside the point the INTENT is what is wrong.

you are banging ahead against a brick wall - Liverpool fans don't want to see the truth so are arguing all about the tackle - they don't want to face up to the reality that Carragher has done pretty much exactly what Keane got banned for (i.e. NOT THE ACTUAL TACKLE) - only differences being

training vs a match
televsed vs non-televsed
teammate vs opponent (which is actually worse)

DeadSkin

kida wrote: »

you are banging ahead against a brick wall - Certain rosetinted glasses wearing Liverpool fans don't want to see the truth so are arguing all about the tackle - they don't want to face up to the reality that Carragher has done pretty much exactly what Keane got banned for (i.e. NOT THE ACTUAL TACKLE) - only differences being

training vs a match
televsed vs non-televsed
teammate vs opponent (which is actually worse)

^^^^^^Fixed that for ya.
Please don't tar me with that brigade :pac:
Thank You.

hussey

MrPillowTalk wrote: »

1) Keane did not end Haalands carreer so everyone saying he did is talking sh1te.

2) Those saying that Caras is diferent because it wasnt months later are talking sh1te, Keane "did" him first chance he got same as Cara.

3) Those fixating on the severity of the Keane challenge are missing the point he was banned and fined for bringing the game into disrepute and profiting from intentionally hurting another player, EXACTLY the same as what Cara has done. The severity of either tackle is beside the point the INTENT is what is wrong.

I didn't read the 14 pages, only first 2, and last one, but has anyone got a video link to Carra's tackle?
We all have seen Keane's attack tackle.

But I just can't help to think this is just a few column to sell a book.

I would bet my hat that these types of tackles happen on a monthly basis, and he only is mentioning it as a book selling point

also

You're not f***ing laughing now are you, you soft twat?" I said as he hobbled away.

Did I care he had a knock?

Knock is not a word you can describe A.I.H injury and he certainly didn't hobble away

Chong

Well that was 238 posts of sh!te. I cant believe it went on this long, Pool fans with the rose glasses on , United fans taking a pop. Who cares about Jamie Carragher and his sh!te book and sh!te tackle on Song.

Fall_Guy

hussey wrote: »

I didn't read the 14 pages, only first 2, and last one, but has anyone got a video link to Carra's tackle?
We all have seen Keane's attack tackle.

But I just can't help to think this is just a few column to sell a book.

I would bet my hat that these types of tackles happen on a monthly basis, and he only is mentioning it as a book selling point

also

Knock is not a word you can describe A.I.H injury and he certainly didn't hobble away

Yes Keane's tackle was horrible, malicious, very dangerous. It was a knock that Haaland suffered a the end of the day though. Obviously it could have been a lot worse, but the reality is he was playing the next week.

monkey9

Carragher's tackle was a fifty/fifty. Hard, but fair. Keane's wasn't, that's the difference.
Carragher never said he went in to intentionally hurt the player. He saw Song laughing when he found out that Carragher was in the England squad.. The next fifty/fifty challenge that came along, Carragher went in hard, Song felt it but it probably wasn't even a foul and Carragher thought, 'you're not laughing now, are you? That's why i'm in the England squad'. And when Song hobbled off at the end of training after what may have been a fair challenge (nobody knows), Song wasn't laughing at Carragher anymore. No-one was. By writing this, it's completely different from Keane's admission of assault. That's not bringing the game into disrepute, that's talking about earning respect as a young player starting amongst more experienced players and showing you won't be pushed about. That is football.
Keane went in over the top, launched his studs at Haalands knee without ever going for the ball for revenge!

copacetic

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Yes Keane's tackle was horrible, malicious, very dangerous. It was a knock that Haaland suffered a the end of the day though. Obviously it could have been a lot worse, but the reality is he was playing the next week.

Whose reality is that? Yours.

Haaland doesn't see it like that:

The Norwegian professes no lasting bitterness towards the Irishman. But he has not forgotten. 'It is still there, every day,' said Haaland, 35.

'The knee still hurts, that isn't going to go away. I have to accept that. Did that tackle end my career? Well, I never played a full game again, did I? It seems like a great coincidence, don't you think?'

kida

copacetic wrote: »

Whose reality is that? Yours.

Haaland doesn't see it like that:

don't let the clouds facts your judgement - The tackle was the another knee and he was in the team a week later


http://www.uneedspecsref.co.uk/behind-the-bust-ups.php

Haaland retired through injury a year later. Haaland's web site stated that
his retirement was not caused as a result of Roy Keane's tackle (for which
Keane could have been banned permanently from the game and/or sued had it
been proved that Haarland had had to retire as a direct consequence of the
United captain's tackle).
For the record, and according to his own website, the injury that ended
Haaland's career in football was in his OTHER knee, not the one that got
crocked by the Keane tackle.)

eZe^

It really is a shame that the bias you have for your team can go as far as blinding fans into thinking sh*te like this is ok. What Carragher did is disgusting, and I've lost alot of respect for him..

Stop comparing this to a 5 a-side astroturf game, or any non-professional game, because when you go into tackle with the intent to injure you are risking a players career. You are risking ruining a persons life, all of a sudden he can no longer play the game he loves, and he has no source of income.

Some of the arguments condoning this sh*t are ridiculous, grow up lads and stop being so blinded by your love for your club.

copacetic

kida wrote: »

don't let the clouds facts your judgement - The tackle was the another knee and he was in the team a week later


http://www.uneedspecsref.co.uk/behind-the-bust-ups.php

yep, I'm sure that link and you know better than Haaland himself.

Fall_Guy

copacetic wrote: »

yep, I'm sure that link and you know better than Haaland himself.

Look, it's in haaland's mind that the keane tackle contributed to his career ending. He is entitled to believe that, but there is no evidence of that so you can't go around claiming that keane ended his career.

To be honest, there is no need to embellish the situation as the truth is bad enough. Keane went in on Haaland when the ball was long gone with the intent to hurt him. This is not acceptable. Why add that he ended his career when he didnt?

ROCKMAN

.

Keane's tackle was undefendable at the time and deserved the red card he recevied , When he followed it up in his book its was bordering on stupidity and he was charge and punished again and rightly so.

Carragher's tackle is as equally undefendable and deserves some punishment but the fact that it took place in a training match and there is no complaint (maybe Song may act when he reads the book ) means there was/will be none.

However the fact that he decided to follow Keane's Stupidity and put it in writing has opened the doors for the FA to charge him with something like Keane, maybe.

For me the worst part of all this ,is the fact that Carragher's tackle was on a fellow team mate :eek:
Thats just the lowest of the low and cannot ever be defended.

kida

copacetic wrote: »

yep, I'm sure that link and you know better than Haaland himself.

The link is only highlighting that HE said what he said on his own website- as was widely reported at the time

stop ignoring the obvious FFS :rolleyes:

monkey9

Again, such ****e! This happens in football all the time. Even Jamie Redknapp said the first time most of his team-mates noticed an up and coming Steven Gerrard was when Gerrard went into a crunching tackle with Paul Ince in training.
Ferguson first noticed Keane when he went in with a cruncing tackle on Bryan Robson while playing for Forest. It's making your mark, showing you won't be intimidated and disrespected. I love it. It's football!!
This is an absolute nonsense, and yeah people should take off their red-tinted glasses. Their Man U ones!

JimiTime

monkey9 wrote: »

Again, such ****e! This happens in football all the time. Even Jamie Redknapp said the first time most of his team-mates noticed an up and coming Steven Gerrard was when Gerrard went into a crunching tackle with Paul Ince in training.
Ferguson first noticed Keane when he went in with a cruncing tackle on Bryan Robson while playing for Forest. It's making your mark, showing you won't be intimidated and disrespected. I love it. It's football!!
This is an absolute nonsense, and yeah people should take off their red-tinted glasses. Their Man U ones!

First of all, I don't support anyone, so there's no rose tinted shades here! Second of all, I haven't once seen anyone from any side defending what Keane did. Third of all, going in hard in a tackle is not the issue!! ITS GOING INTO A TACKLE INTENT ON HURTING THE OTHER PERSON!! Now you may think this is acceptable, but there are those of us that think that setting out to intentionally hurt your opponent is thuggery, and deserves punishment. Now if players do it all the time in 50-50 challenges, fine. They'll always gety the benefit of the doubt. However, if the player then says, I set out to hurt him, then that removes the doubt, and they should be punished!

kida

monkey9 wrote: »

Again, such ****e! This happens in football all the time. Even Jamie Redknapp said the first time most of his team-mates noticed an up and coming Steven Gerrard was when Gerrard went into a crunching tackle with Paul Ince in training.
Ferguson first noticed Keane when he went in with a cruncing tackle on Bryan Robson while playing for Forest. It's making your mark, showing you won't be intimidated and disrespected. I love it. It's football!!
This is an absolute nonsense, and yeah people should take off their red-tinted glasses. Their Man U ones!

Its not about the tackle - stop ignoring the obvious :mad: