A Question for Non-LoI Fans

SectionF

The Rooster wrote: »

Section F, the answers are generally obvious (although I think you've been overly simplistic), but its how to apply that to the LOI that will take a bit of imagination, and a root and branch overhaul IMO


The blame culture as per a couple of your responses above plays a large part in keeping LOI in its current limbo IMO. The media do what the public want. And if the public are "brainwashed" by English soccer, what's been stopping Irish soccer trying to "brainwash" them? You need to put the horse before the cart.

You made a key point in "own club". Only a small minority of sports fans in Ireland have an "own club" in LOI. And that's not the people's fault that's the clubs' fault.

By own clubs, I mean clubs in our own country, cities and towns. I think it's clear that I don't mean literal ownership.
I'm not trying to blame anyone, BTW, although it can easily be interpreted that way if one is defensive to start with. I just think that a key part of football supporting is loyalty: individual loyalty and collective loyalty.
That goes beyond 'product' and marketing.
I can understand why one would shout for a team in the EPL or SPL, but what's odd is that most people who do so want to do that exclusively. They are not prepared to support an Irish football team, with any number of excuses reeled off for not doing so.
Until people do start supporting the live football (as in live in life, not on television), the standard will not improve. Instead, they stand back and, as if somehow they are personally to be congratulated for the quality of the English game, say LoI isn't up to their standards.
That's good enough if you are a consumer, but not if you are a football supporter.

Unearthly

I wanted to go see a few shelbourne matches this season but the idea went down like a led balloon with all my mates.

so im not going to go on my own, and even though a few people on here kindly invited me once(Des iirc) it would feel awkward.

The idea of going drinking before and after live football most weeks sounds great but like I said the idea of going on my own or meeting up with people I dont know doesnt appeal to me

djpbarry

OPENROAD wrote: »

What grounds in England have you been to and how often do you go to reach that conclusion.

Ever been in Birmingham on derby day? It ain’t a pretty sight – virtually the entire local police force is required to keep things in check.

The Rooster wrote: »

IMO if you want a well supported league it needs total reform. If its done properly, then it is possible to get thousands more to attend on a regular basis. Yes you will annoy current supporters but you'd bank on the majority coming back when they realise the "product" looks good.

I don’t know about that. I remember an idea being mooted a few years back that would have involved amalgamating St Pat’s, Bohs, Shels and Rovers into one “Dublin” team – I would say you’d lose about 90% of the fan-base of those clubs if something like this ever came to pass.

The Rooster wrote: »

Why does the Irish soccer team continue to get huge attendance even when playing sh!te friendlies?

Good question. If all those people who attend Ireland games attended LOI games every week, we’d be laughin’.

The Rooster wrote: »

Why did Shelbourne get a great gate for Deportivo?

Because people wanted to see a team of Deportivo’s status play a competitive game in Dublin?

The Rooster wrote: »

All I know is the current format doesnt work, but I it does seem that current fans are very happy with the status quo…

I totally disagree; I would be delighted to see 10,000 people show up to see Pats every week. Hell, even 5,000 and we’d be doing ok. I couldn’t give a toss if the whole lot of them wore Utd and Liverpool shirts.

The Rooster wrote: »

And if the public are "brainwashed" by English soccer, what's been stopping Irish soccer trying to "brainwash" them?

Vast, vast, vast sums of money. Irish football cannot compete with English football on a like-for-like basis.

noodler wrote: »

Saying that LOI quality is proven because they knocked out a team consisting of a couple of Swedish internationals is pointless.

Why? If the standard of the LOI is sooooo poor, then surely it would have been no bother for a side with at least six players with international caps to beat Pats over two legs, would it not?

The Rooster wrote: »

You will not attract new fans to LOI by pretending the standard is great. Its not..

I don’t think anyone is claiming that the standard is great. What is being refuted is the claim that the standard is ****e.

Jazzy wrote: »

the PL and LoI are both easily accessible in this country right.

If you’re prepared to pay for Setanta or Sky subscription.

elshambo wrote: »

Its a small league in a small country and paying 4 grand a week to the likes of Joe Gamble when he would make less than half that across the pond…

I’ve no idea how you arrived at that conclusion. Clubs HAVE to pay reasonably big money to compete with British clubs, but even then they’re fighting a losing battle. For example, Celtic are thought to be paying Paddy McCourt about 10 times what Derry offered him in a new contract.

MarkOShea wrote: »

… for a n outsider looking in, the league is not run very well. Cork, Waterford, Sligo, Finn Harps, Galway, Cobh........all with money problems this year. And Drogs and Bohs are relying on money which may not actually he there. Paying players crazy money is not sustainable.

How is that any different to Britain? How many British clubs operate on a sound financial basis?

DSB

Unearthly wrote: »

I wanted to go see a few shelbourne matches this season but the idea went down like a led balloon with all my mates.

so im not going to go on my own, and even though a few people on here kindly invited me once(Des iirc) it would feel awkward.

The idea of going drinking before and after live football most weeks sounds great but like I said the idea of going on my own or meeting up with people I dont know doesnt appeal to me

I'm sure if you ask enough you'll get someone to go with you. I had the same problem for ages, and I ended up going on my own for a few years, but gradually I've been able to drag the girlfriend and some friends to every home game, and the girlfriend even comes to every away game.

Unearthly

DSB wrote: »

I'm sure if you ask enough you'll get someone to go with you. I had the same problem for ages, and I ended up going on my own for a few years, but gradually I've been able to drag the girlfriend and some friends to every home game, and the girlfriend even comes to every away game.

Oh don't worry I won't be given up on this. I just need to paint the picture better cause at the moment they just say "nah it's ****"

I'd still reckon Man Utd will always be my number 1 team though

ibh

I have no problem going to a game on my own. It happens that most my mates aren't into football so i bother trying to get them. Sorta meet with a few associates when i get to a game anyway.

No problem going alone, it's like going to the cinema alone...

bohsman

Unearthly wrote: »

Oh don't worry I won't be given up on this. I just need to paint the picture better cause at the moment they just say "nah it's ****"

I'd still reckon Man Utd will always be my number 1 team though

Ive been dragging a few people to games recently, easier to pick a big game, for Shels Id say Dundalk or Sporting Fingal, use the promotion decider or local rivalry or whatever.

I thought that about Manu when I started going to games too.

DSB

bohsman wrote: »

Ive been dragging a few people to games recently, easier to pick a big game, for Shels Id say Dundalk or Sporting Fingal, use the promotion decider or local rivalry or whatever.

I thought that about Manu when I started going to games too.

Tomorrow night is as good as any. Home to Waterford in a 2nd versus 3rd game with both sides wanting to catch up on Dundalk who after last week's defeat to Limerick remain catchable if any of the three sides below can put a strong run together.

Savman

You'd swear this was an exclusively Irish problem. Go look at the figs, gate receipts and attendances have been dwindling in most major leagues for some time now, England, Italy etc etc.

50 years ago you'd squash 80,000 into a top division game in England, nowadays most clubs outside the elite average anywhere between 10k to 40k.

So rather than harp on the usual patriotism argument, perhaps someone might like to speculate why people in general, internationally, aren't going to as many football games as they used to.

My answer: the game has evolved, partially due to Rupert Murdoch's empire and influence but mostly due to advances in technology and live TV. National associations who were caught napping have since been left behind (FAIlure anyone?), those who embraced the digital age are reaping the rewards, the Premiership being a case in point. It's probably no better a league now than it ever was but the perception is that it's "the best league in the world". How? Trendsetting marketing on a global scale IMHO.

DSB

Savman wrote: »

You'd swear this was an exclusively Irish problem. Go look at the figs, gate receipts and attendances have been dwindling in most major leagues for some time now, England, Italy etc etc.

50 years ago you'd squash 80,000 into a top division game in England, nowadays most clubs outside the elite average anywhere between 10k to 40k.

So rather than harp on the usual patriotism argument, perhaps someone might like to speculate why people in general, internationally, aren't going to as many football games as they used to.

My answer: the game has evolved, partially due to Rupert Murdoch's empire and influence but mostly due to advances in technology and live TV. National associations who were caught napping have since been left behind (FAIlure anyone?), those who embraced the digital age are reaping the rewards, the Premiership being a case in point. It's probably no better a league now than it ever was but the perception is that it's "the best league in the world". How? Trendsetting marketing on a global scale IMHO.

But if you know all this, why do you talk like you're one of the sheep led by the flock? I understand ignorance can be bliss, but you seem well aware.

Bubs101

DSB wrote: »

But eh I don't think that the geographical distance makes any difference when both groups watch through a television.

It makes a massive difference. How many people travel every weekend to watch football in the UK from Ireland? I'd say that more people travel from Ireland, a country of around 4 million people per weekend than the whole of Africa which clearly makes a difference.

DSB

Bubs101 wrote: »

It makes a massive difference. How many people travel every weekend to watch football in the UK from Ireland?

I'd imagine thats still a minute figure compared to those who watch the games on TV who have not been to see their side more than once a season, if even that.

ibh

DSB wrote: »

Tomorrow night is as good as any. Home to Waterford in a 2nd versus 3rd game with both sides wanting to catch up on Dundalk who after last week's defeat to Limerick remain catchable if any of the three sides below can put a strong run together.

Come on, let's be realistic. It's a fight for second place..:pac:

DSB

ibh wrote: »

Come on, let's be realistic. It's a fight for second place..:pac:

We've beaten you once at Oriel this season and we'll do it again:D

AARRRGH

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Is it the product? The perception? Are you not that big a fan and don't need the hassle of cost, travel etc? Or is it simply because all your brothers were Liverpool fans?

Explain yersleves.

For me, it's a couple of reasons.

1. Standing in the cold watching an average game of football doesn't appeal to me.
2. I feel no connection to any of the Irish clubs. Perhaps if I lived in Drogheda or something it'd be different, but as a Dublin southsider I don't live near any clubs.
3. The skanger factor. I don't want to be around skangers.

DSB

AARRRGH wrote: »

For me, it's a couple of reasons.

1. Standing in the cold watching an average game of football doesn't appeal to me.
2. I feel no connection to any of the Irish clubs. Perhaps if I lived in Drogheda or something it'd be different, but as a Dublin southsider I don't live near any clubs.
3. The skanger factor. I don't want to be around skangers.

Do you visit pubs, concerts or cinemas much?

Savman

DSB wrote: »

But if you know all this, why do you talk like you're one of the sheep led by the flock? I understand ignorance can be bliss, but you seem well aware.

The game would've changed regardless whether I followed blindly. Obviously most of us did, not saying that's a bad thing but when we're all moaning about astronomical transfer fees and stupid wages and who is to blame, well we can all take one big long look in the mirror.

The LoI brigade are still thinking territorily, footy has long gone global as events of recent weeks have shown. At the same time, I refuse to accept that us 'glory hunters' (the Villa park trophy cabinet aint exactly bulging btw) are responsible for the downturn of the LOI. The reason it worked in England is because the FA and the Premier League were fairly astute in securing rights and massive sponsorship deals (hence 'The FA Barclays Premiership') and this paid dividends for the clubs. Even for those relegated from the PL in the form of balloon payments. It was a well designed system.

Skip to Dublin, same deal, same scenario, different result however. FAI have their numerous flaws which have been discussed here at length, and the best they could obviously manage to secure was sponsorship with a company like Eircom who not so long ago made headlines for all sorts of problems with shares and whatnot. Hardly a partnership that was ever going to yield results anywhere near that of our counterparts across the Irish sea.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

Do you visit pubs, concerts or cinemas much?

Of course.

I don't go to cold, not-particularly-good pubs full of skangers, if that's the point you're trying to make.

Savman

AARRRGH wrote: »

Of course.

I don't go to cold, not-particularly-good pubs full of skangers, if that's the point you're trying to make.

How do you know there's no skangers on boards? DSB is a skanger. :pac:

AARRRGH

Savman wrote: »

The LoI brigade are still thinking territorily, footy has long gone global as events of recent weeks have shown.

Yep. I suspect it's to give them a sense of identity, belonging, and of course a massive chip on their shoulder about being "real" football fans.

DSB

Savman wrote: »

The game would've changed regardless whether I followed blindly. Obviously most of us did, not saying that's a bad thing but when we're all moaning about astronomical transfer fees and stupid wages and who is to blame, well we can all take one big long look in the mirror.

The LoI brigade are still thinking territorily, footy has long gone global as events of recent weeks have shown. At the same time, I refuse to accept that us 'glory hunters' (the Villa park trophy cabinet aint exactly bulging btw) are responsible for the downturn of the LOI. The reason it worked in England is because the FA and the Premier League were fairly astute in securing rights and massive sponsorship deals (hence 'The FA Barclays Premiership') and this paid dividends for the clubs. Even for those relegated from the PL in the form of balloon payments. It was a well designed system.

Skip to Dublin, same deal, same scenario, different result however. FAI have their numerous flaws which have been discussed here at length, and the best they could obviously manage to secure was sponsorship with a company like Eircom who not so long ago made headlines for all sorts of problems with shares and whatnot. Hardly a partnership that was ever going to yield results anywhere near that of our counterparts across the Irish sea.

Well next year it won't be Eircom so perhaps you'll have a different outlook on it then. Boylesports might bring something new to the table. I don't think media marketing etc. is a necessary thing though. People know the league is there, and they've a fair idea what matchday experience is like.

AARRRGH

Savman wrote: »

How do you know there's no skangers on boards? DSB is a skanger. :pac:

Haha... that's actually one of my problems with boards... well, not skangers, but having to talk to people who are 14 or stupid or crazy or whatever. In the real world I like to avoid certain people and situations, just like everyone does.

DSB

AARRRGH wrote: »

Of course.

I don't go to cold, not-particularly-good pubs full of skangers, if that's the point you're trying to make.

There are no more scangers at League Of Ireland games than there are at your average cinema.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

There are no more scangers at League Of Ireland games than there are at your average cinema.

Not the cinema I go to

And anyway, there is difference between a skanger at the cinema and a skanger at a football game, i.e he is likely to be more aggressive coming out of the match his team just lost.

DSB

AARRRGH wrote: »

Not the cinema I go to

Course not, and there are no scangers at Premiership matches I assume? Or do you just not like football?

Savman

AARRRGH wrote: »

Not the cinema I go to

Aye we can't get into the IFI

bohsman

AARRRGH wrote: »

Yep. I suspect it's to give them a sense of identity, belonging, and of course a massive chip on their shoulder about being "real" football fans.

Where do I apply for this shoulder chip? I never got mine. Seems you have one though.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

Course not, and there are no scangers at Premiership matches I assume? Or do you just not like football?

OK. I can see this is going to be difficult.

I'll try explain it another way.

I like good quality football. I don't mind watching it on TV. I do not want to pay for poor quality football, standing in the cold, surrounded by people who think they're "real" football fans.

Your attitude of "Or do you just not like football?" is the chip on the shoulder I referred to earlier.

oobydooby

Real cinema lovers go to the IFI. Real music lovers go to the NCH. There are snobs everywhere.

Dave!

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think Irish football can live without you....

sorry I forgot,

FOOTBALL FOR LIFE! MY TEAM TIL I DIE!

That better?

Pathetic

DSB

AARRRGH wrote: »

OK. I can see this is going to be difficult.

I'll try explain it another way.

I like good quality football. I don't mind watching it on TV. I do not want to pay for poor quality football, standing in the cold, surrounded by people who think they're "real" football fans.

Your attitude of "Or do you just not like football?" is the chip on the shoulder I referred to earlier.

You think I have a chip on my shoulder? Yet you won't go to somewhere in the risk that there might be scangers there?

AARRRGH

oobydooby wrote: »

Real cinema lovers go to the IFI. Real music lovers go to the NCH. There are snobs everywhere.

Why does liking good/foreign movies make me a snob?

Think about that for a second.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

You think I have a chip on my shoulder? Yet you won't go to somewhere in the risk that there might be scangers there?

Did you not see the other things I listed before that?

I'll try again -

1. I do not want to stand in the cold watching poor quality football.
2. I don't feel I have any connection with the football clubs in Dublin. Again, if I lived near a football club this might be different.
3. I generally don't want to be around skangers or people who think they're "real" football fans because they'll go watch a crap game of football. [Of course, not everyone at the games will be skangers, but I do know of violence outside LoI games.]

DSB

AARRRGH wrote: »

Did you not see the other things I listed before that?

I'll try again -

1. I do not want to stand in the cold watching poor quality football.
2. I don't feel I have any connection with the football clubs in Dublin. Again, if I lived near a football club this might be different.
3. I generally don't want to be around skangers or people who think they're "real" football fans because they'll go watch a crap game of football.

But I wasn't referring to the other 2 things, they've already been mentioned in the thread and addressed.

bohsman

AARRRGH wrote: »

Did you not see the other things I listed before that?

I'll try again -

1. I do not want to stand in the cold watching poor quality football.
2. I don't feel I have any connection with the football clubs in Dublin. Again, if I lived near a football club this might be different.
3. I generally don't want to be around skangers or people who think they're "real" football fans because they'll go watch a crap game of football. [Of course, not everyone at the games will be skangers, but I do know of violence outside LoI games.]

Would you go to a football match in England? Points 1 and 3 go against you there aswell. Unless you get a corporate box of course. - far more likely to experience violence outside an english game/irish pub aswell.

AARRRGH

DSB wrote: »

But I wasn't referring to the other 2 things, they've already been mentioned in the thread and addressed.

OK. I'll take your word for it that I won't be surrounded by skangers or hassled or anything like that.

My two other points are still massive drawbacks for me though.

AARRRGH

bohsman wrote: »

Would you go to a football match in England? Points 1 and 3 go against you there aswell. Unless you get a corporate box of course. - far more likely to experience violence outside an english game/irish pub aswell.

There is something about the large police presence and the match/league being high profile which would remove the skanger worry. This applies to international games too.

I wouldn't mind standing in the cold if I was watching good quality football. It's the combination of poor football AND ****ty weather which I have a problem with...

bohsman

Games in both leagues are hit and miss, Id be thinking twice about showing up for a game in Anfield at the moment if I was a Liverpool fan but I cant wait to get down to Dalymount to watch great football at the moment while last season was a chore. Theres a big police presence at any game with potential trouble in this country aswell.

invincibleirish

Savman wrote: »

(the Villa park trophy cabinet aint exactly bulging btw)

High Treason! Death to Savman!

Villa have a bulging trophy cabinet, its just that there's a lot of dust upon those trophies.


- invincibleirish, Victorian era glory hunter.

applehunter

AARRRGH wrote: »

Did you not see the other things I listed before that?

I'll try again -

1. I do not want to stand in the cold watching poor quality football.
2. I don't feel I have any connection with the football clubs in Dublin. Again, if I lived near a football club this might be different.
3. I generally don't want to be around skangers or people who think they're "real" football fans because they'll go watch a crap game of football. [Of course, not everyone at the games will be skangers, but I do know of violence outside LoI games.]

WUM

What part of Dublin are you from?

elshambo

AARRRGH wrote: »

Of course, not everyone at the games will be skangers, but I do know of violence outside LoI games.

Take the following groups of words and use them to form sentences to clarify a: what you mean and b: which planet i thing you are from with releation to the real world (u may use extra words for answer a!):D

a:
VIOLENCE
FOOTBALL
IRELAND
ENGLAND
PREFER
SAFER
PUBS
OUTOFBOUNDS
FANS
OPPOSITION


b:
PLANET
DIFFERENT

OPENROAD

djpbarry wrote: »

Ever been in Birmingham on derby day? It ain’t a pretty sight – virtually the entire local police force is required to keep things in check.

I can only speak from my own experience of attending Arsenal matches VERY REGULARY. My original answer was to a poster who when it was put to him that loi matces were frequented by "knackers" was to respond that it is worse in England. I asked him if he attended matches in England on a regular basis to reach that conclusion and I would also ask you the same thing. No point in just picking one particular derby match out. You could do the same with loi. English premiership match day experiences are very very different now to what it was like 10+ years ago.

Gareth37

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I was having a conversation with a fan of a smaller LoI club, Cork, about why Irish people ignore their own professional league and follow teams from overseas. I'm not talking here about the irregular visitor to live domestic football or even the watcher of MNS.

I do not want to open up a 'my right to chose' debate again, lets assume you are right in your choice etc. For those who stoically ignore the LoI I have one simple question. Why?

Is it the product? The perception? Are you not that big a fan and don't need the hassle of cost, travel etc? Or is it simply because all your brothers were Liverpool fans?

Explain yersleves.

Its the continous brain washing by the media and influence of British media and culture here. Ireland look up to Britain still, it goes back to Cromwell times when the British put us in our place.

Cromwell predicted that we would all speak English , lose our language and religeon and follow British sports and general culture. He was right!

OhNoYouDidn't

Dave! wrote: »

sorry I forgot,

FOOTBALL FOR LIFE! MY TEAM TIL I DIE!

That better?

Pathetic

Are you lost? You do know you are on a football forum telling people that they are 'pathetic' for, well following football?

How confused are you?

darkman2

ntlbell wrote: »

This has been done to death.

Mostly it's because the standard of the LOI is often worse than school boy league sunday football...

there's not much of a mystery

In fairness it cannot be anything more then that unless Irish people support it in better numbers. It would get better if more supported it - but is anyone bothered?

ntlbell

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Are you lost? You do know you are on a football forum telling people that they are 'pathetic' for, well following football?

How confused are you?

I think he meant the morons that think there's nothing more to life than football..

wait, he just called me patheitc...

ntlbell

darkman2 wrote: »

In fairness it cannot be anything more then that unless Irish people support it in better numbers. It would get better if more supported it - but is anyone bothered?

Well it's a catch 22 then?

People won't go because it's pants.

people going would make it not pants..

Right...

new angle?

eagle eye

Pack up the league and get two big clubs in Dublin and one in Cork to enter the English league and make to the Premiership in a couple of years and then we will see Irish clubs supported.;)

Töpher

Dublin Dons ftw! :eek:

DmanDmythDledge

corban wrote: »

in the el the majority of teams play an unattractive style of football....

in my opinion the only way crowds will return to the el is if all the clubs sit down together and decide to play attractive attacking football on the ground...

i know people will say that maybe we dont have the top quality players to do this, but i disagree, even the most average players can pass the ball and make runs, i think fans would even appreciate the effort...

corban wrote: »

of course there are teams who try but they are in the minority imo..... went to see the drogs at the begining of the seaon and nearly tore my hair out...

You seem to be talking as what you are saying is fact. By going to one game you tar everyone with the same brush.

The only teams in the Premier Division that play hoofball are Drogs and Rovers. I can't comment on the First Division. That's hardly the majority as you say.

Dave! wrote: »

I have no knowledge of Irish football, so it's hard to just turn to it and expect to take to it like I do to English football, of which I have years of experience. I don't know any of the players, few of the teams, etc.

But furthermore, I have no desire to turn to it just because it's Irish... I'm content with following the EPL and sticking with the one team in that. I don't feel compelled to support an Irish team or watch Irish football.

But surely you would prefer to be at a football match than watch football on TV (bar going to a few games as you said)?

There are plenty of ways of getting into the League of Ireland- read the forums, newspaper articles, match reports etc. Watch MNS or games on live TV. I do think media exposure of the league is not great but it is not that difficult for people with no knowledge of the league to become accustomed with it.

therecklessone wrote: »

If you have no affinity to a club, but just turn up to watch them play for 90mins, if you stand there on an empty terrace and watch those same 11 cloggers, you don't get frustrated, you get bored.

I'm not saying that the quality of football isn't an issue, I'm saying that unless you feel something for a team you are not exactly going to stick around and watch sh1t football, are you?

We all endure to some extent, but that is what being a fan is all about. If I'm not a fan, then what is there to encourage me to endure?

Didn't you say you used to go to Shels matches? So you would have some bit of an afffinity, even if it is a small one at this stage.

But it's the rest of your first paragraph I have most of an issue with.

You say you go to Spurs games and it's great craic, drinking before and after the game. Why would it be any different going to games here? Empty terraces? Coming out with bullshít statements like that is hardly giving yourself any credibility.

RE your main point about affinity: When you started supporting Spurs did you have any affinity with them? You didn't. Obviously that isn't going to happen overnight. There was obviously a time when you supported Spurs when you had very little affinity with them so why is it different for League of Ireland clubs?

AARRRGH wrote: »

For me, it's a couple of reasons.

1. Standing in the cold watching an average game of football doesn't appeal to me.
2. I feel no connection to any of the Irish clubs. Perhaps if I lived in Drogheda or something it'd be different, but as a Dublin southsider I don't live near any clubs.
3. The skanger factor. I don't want to be around skangers.

1. Cold when most of the season is played during the warmest months of the year?

2. Not near anyone? Where do you live? You can hardly be more than half an hour from Pats, UCD or Rovers when they move to Tallaght if you count them.

3. Do you ever enter the world outside of where you live?

No skangers at UCD games btw and it's not as big a "problem" as you are making out.