A Question for Non-LoI Fans

CiaranC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

His entire post was truely depressing.

I blame Bebo.

This is how football is now. People who prefer watching it on TV, glory hunters who are convinced they are real football fans despite only seeing their team once or zero times a year, people who support clubs to which they have no connection in other countries and are oblivious as to why people think they are fools, no understanding of the history of football clubs (Irish gob****es following Chelsea), people who "hate" England yet pump money into their game via Sky TV and replica jerseys, 3000 Irish "Liverpool Fans" pledging 6k+ to save "their" club which our own clubs struggle in the face of total indifference, players ignored by the international set-up because they dont play in poor quality leagues in England, Super Sundays down the pub with your mates who think Scousers are scumbags and Mancs are legends or vice verse, despite the fact that theyve been there about 3 times in their lives, know noone from there and are laughed at by real fans of those clubs...

Depressing isnt the word.

Eirebear

newballsplease wrote: »

well as i said, im not sure if i fancy watching live football anyway, i pefer watching on TV.

Your being sarcastic....right?

I think that is possibly the most depressing thing i have ever read on this forum.

Handsome Bob

CiaranC wrote: »

This is how football is now. People who prefer watching it on TV, glory hunters who are convinced they are real football fans despite only seeing their team once or zero times a year, people who support clubs to which they have no connection in other countries and are oblivious as to why people think they are fools, no understanding of the history of football clubs (Irish gob****es following Chelsea), people who "hate" England yet pump money into their game via Sky TV and replica jerseys, 3000 Irish "Liverpool Fans" pledging 6k+ to save "their" club which our own clubs struggle in the face of total indifference, players ignored by the international set-up because they dont play in poor quality leagues in England, Super Sundays down the pub with your mates who think Scousers are scumbags and Mancs are legends or vice verse, despite the fact that theyve been there about 3 times in their lives, know noone from there and are laughed at by real fans of those clubs...

Depressing isnt the word.

I have no issue with the english team, I have an issue with how the media surround the team with so much hype, but I don't hate the team.

Was your father/ older brothers fans of the LoI when you were born? You were brought up to support the league of Ireland teams yes? Well I wasn't, I'm the youngest of 7 brothers who are all Liverpool fans, I was bred to be a Liverpool fan, I won't apologise for that.

Plus my brothers go to as many Liverpool games as they can during a season. They support their club in person to the best of their ability but they can't be going over every week when they have families to feed, loans to pay off and mortgages to pay off.

I totally respect where your coming from, there are plenty of clowns who are "Liva" or "United" "through and through" yet they are spouting anti-english crap first chance they get.

CiaranC

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Was your father/ older brothers fans of the LoI when you were born? You were brought up to support the league of Ireland teams yes?

I saw lots of football when I was a kid, Rovers, UCD, Bray, St Francis, Liverpool, Man Utd, Ireland, Barcelona etc.

Even then I knew the difference between going along to Rovers every week and going to Liverpool once a year. The Liverpool fans were passionate about their club and I never presumed to be anything like a real fan. I was a Rovers fan, because I was from South Dublin, not Liverpool. I saw Scotland play at home and loved it, but I didnt decide to become a Scotland fan, I was from Ireland so I supported Ireland.

Eirebear

IMHO the Irish media are every bit as much to blame, if not more, for the problems irish football faces at the moment.

How can you blame people for supporting a club from accross the water when they are continually fed live matches at prime times, a never ending stream of documentaries and written articles celebrating the "irish connection" within a number of different clubs, and the general feeling that irish players playing in Scotland and England are more of a success than those plying their trade at home, no matter what level the club they play for are at?

Handsome Bob

CiaranC wrote: »

I saw lots of football when I was a kid, Rovers, UCD, Bray, St Francis, Liverpool, Man Utd, Ireland, Barcelona etc.

Even then I knew the difference between going along to Rovers every week and going to Liverpool once a year. The Liverpool fans were passionate about their club and I never presumed to be anything like a real fan. I was a Rovers fan, because I was from South Dublin, not Liverpool. I saw Scotland play at home and loved it, but I didnt decide to become a Scotland fan, I was from Ireland so I supported Ireland.

And I can't argue with that. The only football I saw when I was kid was Liverpool or Ireland on the box, and of course seeing my brothers play too. I just never had a strong afilliation to any Irish club. All my mates are Shels fans and there was a period where I went every week, I just couldn't get into it (that's not to say that I didn't enjoy the banter and buzz at being at a live game). So instead of being a bandwagoner I just stopped going.

Again though, it's different times now. There are many fans in Ireland who go to games in England every month.

CiaranC

LZ5by5 wrote: »

And I can't argue with that. The only football I saw when I was kid was Liverpool or Ireland on the box, and of course seeing my brothers play too. I just never had a strong afilliation to any Irish club. All my mates are Shels fans and there was a period where I went every week, I just couldn't get into it (that's not to say that I didn't enjoy the banter and buzz at being at a live game). So instead of being a bandwagoner I just stopped going.

Again though, it's different times now. There are many fans in Ireland who go to games in England every month.

Fair enough, you gave it a go and it wasnt for you, cant ask for more than that I suppose. Shame though. (You should have gone to a club who have a few fans maybe )

stovelid

Eirebear wrote: »

How can you blame people for supporting a club from accross the water when they are continually fed live matches at prime times, a never ending stream of documentaries and written articles celebrating the "irish connection" within a number of different clubs, and the general feeling that irish players playing in Scotland and England are more of a success than those plying their trade at home, no matter what level the club they play for are at?

So the media are to blame for adults deciding what team they support?

The continuous feed of matches is a Sky (93 onwards) development. The relentless cataloging of Irish players in England has only really come about since the Oirish latched on to the national team in 1988.

The problem of people ignoring their own league predates either development by years.

SectionF

Originally Posted by newballsplease View Post
well as i said, im not sure if i fancy watching live football anyway, i pefer watching on TV.

Well done sir! I'd call that refreshing honesty. No lame excuses about

• quality of play
• distance to stadium
• facilities at stadium
• 'heritage' of following Liverpool, Everton etc.
• being looked down on by eL fans
• being put off by eL fans urging them to go to games
• anything else to convince myself that I'm a football supporter, even if I never support my local team

You've nailed it. You don't like football. You like football programmes on the telly.

Nalz

stovelid wrote: »

The problem of people ignoring their own league predates either development by years.

Very true

String

If games were on weekends I would go all the time. West ham matches only on once every couple months anyway for me so I would go. and I really enjoyed the games I have went to! Ive been to upton park about 20 times more than turners cross aswell which is weird to think since its 10 times cheaper and obviously easier to get to the cross but just such bad game times!

mikemac

Maybe they could stagger the kickoffs to give more options.
At the moment, 90% of the games are Friday night, possibly one on Thursday and sometimes one on Sunday evening.

Hey, we don't all work 9-5 and even if we do, it's sometimes impossible to get of work early to see a game.

I'm not proposing anything radical.
Maybe every weekend keep most games on Friday night but put one on Sunday afternoon and Sunday evening and maybe the same for Saturday. Swop it around the teams so all of them do these different time slots.
Like if you want to go to an away game that's a long drive or bus away, are you supposed to take a halfday Friday off work to attend?
How do the hardcore EL fans manage to get to these away games on a Friday night? Are ye all working shift or flexitime?

In the UK games used to always be at 3:30pm on a Saturday afternoon. Now they have countless different slots over the weekend, such as 2pm, 4pm and 6pm on a Sunday.

Wouldn't hurt to try for a month or two. I'm aware it could clash with important county GAA games but you chose do it different weekends so as to avoid losing those fans

Eirebear

stovelid wrote: »

The problem of people ignoring their own league predates either development by years.

To a time when a number of factors where a problem for "soccer" in Ireland.

a) The parochial element that is the GAA being the main sport in the country, an organisation who made it very difficult (and still does in many areas) for its members to have anything to do with football at a local level.

b) The FAI was one of the most poorly run, and corrupt organisations in the world of football.

I only moved to Ireland in 1992, so i cant really comment on the times before that accurately but from what i have read and heard from other people the media in ireland always had a bit of a hard on for players who played in the UK.

stovelid

Eirebear wrote: »

a) The parochial element that is the GAA being the main sport in the country, an organisation who made it very difficult (and still does in many areas) for its members to have anything to do with football at a local level.

There is an article in the current issue of WSC about the fortunes of Irish football and they assign the same blame to the Gah, but they are missing the point.

A huge number of people in this country are involved in football at a local level, but don't necessarily give a sh*t about the LOI. A equally huge number of people pump huge amounts of money into English football (somebody already mentioned the fans willing to stump up 6k to 'save' Liverpool).

The problem is that they 'like' football just fine. They just hate their own league.

elshambo

newballsplease wrote: »

well as i said, im not sure if i fancy watching live football anyway, i pefer watching on TV.
but to answer your second question
for 15 euro??? 100%:D

Buddy, the whole point of watching football is watching it live, you see things live that tv never/cant show

If you dont know what those things are , u dont understand football:o and would be as well of doing something else

Majority of tv fans arent into football they are into getting the sence for achivement buzz without doing anything, ud be better off playing computer games than watching football if you dont want to see it live:eek:

BTW the whole point of football is playing, when i quit an auld mate of my fathers told me "you will regret that, not now, but in a few years":(

This isnt a pro or anti LOI post, just a pro live football post

Jazzy

i love this thread. just a big LoI circle jerk. much like the pool and utd threads tbh. you all give out and call the PL supporters lesser human beings. much in the way that Utd fans have this reputation for being arrogant and pool fans are unrealistic. its a fine example of pots and kettles being black too.

if most of you cant fathom why we arent interested in the LoI and just slay most of the 'excuses' then maybe u can understand this: we arent interested. its that simple. different ppl have different interests and generally limited time to follow them all. id occasionally watch monday night soccer in the same way id watch a La Liga round up or some such. the fact that the league is in my own country doesnt make a lick of difference to me. i appreciate the fans that support it and their teams and go to games, but im afraid im not interested. i dont care if rovers beat bohs or if shelbourne will get promoted. i dont care if the games are only down my road. that wont get me interested.

what i do find pretty interesting and hilarious is the amount of smug produced by a few fans on this forum. the martyrs. ever watch that episode of South Park where everyone in town gets a hybrid car and they all go around going "good for yoooooouuuuuuuu" and then slay anyone who is still using a petrol car? its pretty much that but with football

elshambo

The premier league is dead, its not football anymore, its a soap opera and a bad daytime tv one at that

midfielders who cant/wont play 1-2's
Holding Mids? worse holding mids who dont take the ball off the defenders
cross field balls for the hell of it, diving, crying, money!

If your not bored with it now you will be in a few years (even man city fans:eek:)

I do support an english prem team, i am glad of the option of LOI and when i move to london in a few weeks i will probably got to AFC Wimbledon or Brentford etc
(Fulham at a push:D)

djpbarry

Jazzy wrote: »

you all give out and call the PL supporters lesser human beings.

I don't recall anyone saying anything of the sort. In fact, if anyone's guilty of throwing abuse about, it's you. You have consistently complained that the average LOI fan has a chip on his/her shoulder when, if anything, it's you who has the chip on the shoulder.

Xavi6

What I don't understand is why someone can't attend their local side on a Friday night AND support their EPL team on a Saturday/Sunday. That way you get the best of both worlds, i.e. the live experience plus the 'down the pub' craic with the lads.

Anyone who claims to be a 'football fan' would surely be of that way of thinking.

stovelid

Jazzy wrote: »

i love this thread. just a big LoI circle jerk. much like the pool and utd threads tbh. you all give out and call the PL supporters lesser human beings. much in the way that Utd fans have this reputation for being arrogant and pool fans are unrealistic. its a fine example of pots and kettles being black too.

You are actually the one with the problem.

Most other LOI-naysayers are being reasonable, and fair play to them.

Perhaps you're just embarrassed because you don't belong anywhere - you ridicule your own league and your fellow 'scousers' or 'mancs' over in England just think you're a joke.

Nalz

It is true that some English fans think we're ridic for supporting such teams, seems Liverpool especially. I was on hols in Riga last year and bumped into Scousers who tought it was stupid that Irish fans support their club. Another mate of mine said he experienced he exact same thing while going over there...

I love Manchester United and always will want them to do well, but if Bohs ever come up against them in Europe (touch wood) I know who I'll shouting for. (hint they're from the same country as me)

stovelid

Xavi6 wrote: »

What I don't understand is why someone can't attend their local side on a Friday night AND support their EPL team on a Saturday/Sunday. That way you get the best of both worlds, i.e. the live experience plus the 'down the pub' craic with the lads.
.

Call it the wife and the mistress.

CiaranC

Ive just had a great idea, mods should move these Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal superthreads over to the television forum where they belong

Jazzy

stovelid wrote: »

You are actually the one with the problem.

Most other LOI-naysayers are being reasonable, and fair play to them.

Perhaps you're just embarrassed because you don't belong anywhere - you ridicule your own league and your fellow 'scousers' or 'mancs' over in England just think you're a joke.

didnt realise following football was about finding a sense of belonging.

and yeah i said some LoI fans. i have mates who are fans and they dont seem to give much of a sh1t about me supporting liverpool and the PL. perhaps the occasional ribbing when we are drinking but thats it.

at least im not wrong about the circle jerk though as this lovely one proves "Ive just had a great idea, mods should move these Liverpool/Man Utd/Chelsea/Arsenal superthreads over to the television forum where they belong".

a big fat circle jerk

stovelid

Jazzy wrote: »

didnt realise following football was about finding a sense of belonging.

Try telling most of the people here that.

Do you think a lot of people from Liverpool, Dublin and Manchester just randomly picked those teams to follow.

What about the national team?

Before television, believe it or not, people actually picked teams on the basis that they were from their city/area and you could get to the ground to watch them .

elshambo

Jazzy wrote: »

didnt realise following football was about finding a sense of belonging.

I think you will find that pretty much EVERY study done into football fandom finds that it is about belonging to a tribe/group etc:D:D
Why do you think people buy replica shirts:eek:

CiaranC

Jazzy wrote: »

didnt realise following football was about finding a sense of belonging.

Its more about finding the remote control for you, yeah?

*edit* sums it up really. Barstoolers just dont get it. Of course its about a sense of belonging. Its about who you are, where you come from, your history, what youve been through as a city, as a people, as a club, as your club, together.

Jazzy

CiaranC wrote: »

Its more about finding the remote control for you, yeah?

nah, amazingly its about the sport.

cheers for proving me right on the attitude and smugness thing tho.


im well aware of how ppl picked teams back in the day, but much like times these things change

CiaranC

Jazzy wrote: »

nah, amazingly its about the sport.

Football transcends mere "sport on tv" for real football fans.

As Shankley said "...not a matter of life and death...much more important..etc"

Its hard not to be condescending. Football fans all over the world are angry about the way football has gone since its been sky tv-ised. Seems like the heart of it is dying.

elshambo

CiaranC wrote: »

Its more about finding the remote control for you, yeah?

*edit* sums it up really. Barstoolers just dont get it. Of course its about a sense of belonging. Its about who you are, where you come from, your history, what youve been through as a city, as a people, together.

I dont think you get it!?
Calling them "barstoolers", "look at me i belong, you dont belong" and then wondering why they wont come watch your team play:o

PS:

CiaranC wrote: »

As Shankley said "...not a matter of life and death...much more important..etc"

Shanks was taking the p*ss and was apparently very annoyed/stunned that his quote was taken out of context

jaykay74

CiaranC wrote: »

its about a sense of belonging. Its about who you are, where you come from, your history, what youve been through as a city, as a people,as a club, as your club, together.

bit of Martin Luther King, touch of JFK and a sprinkle of Pat Dolan then.

CiaranC

elshambo wrote: »

I dont think you get it!?
Calling them "barstoolers", "look at me i belong, you dont belong" and then wondering why they wont come watch your team play:o

Id be happy to see any of them come watch us, or any LOI side play. Its never too late to change

They dont even have to give up watching Arsenal United FC or whoever on the telly.

CiaranC

elshambo wrote: »

Shanks was taking the p*ss and was apparently very annoyed/stunned that his quote was taken out of context

Really? Never heard that before. Its obviously tongue in cheek. Wikipedia doesnt mention that on the quote.

jaykay74 wrote:

bit of Martin Luther King, touch of JFK and a sprinkle of Pat Dolan then.

Thanks, exactly what I was going for. Well, maybe not the Dolan sprinkle.

elshambo

jaykay74 wrote: »

bit of Martin Luther King, touch of JFK and a sprinkle of Pat Dolan then.

JayKay, the ONLY difference between you and Ciaran is that your misguilded support of a football team is ultimately empty, his is slightly less so!

jaykay74

elshambo wrote: »

JayKay, the only difference between you and Ciaran is that your misguilded support of a football team is ultimately empty, his is slightly less so!

Do I know you

elshambo

CiaranC wrote: »

Really? Never heard that before. Its obviously tongue in cheek. Wikipedia doesnt mention that on the quote.

well thats the problem with Wikipedia isnt it, person who put up the page could be George Bush for all you know

elshambo

jaykay74 wrote: »

Do I know you

JayKay
I shouldnt reply but I will :
The Post was a little bit Philosophy, little bit Psychology and if you dont get it, you probably need to see more live football (along with other things?:D)
Start Friday!?

Back on topic, Live football good, go see your local team this/next week

EDIT:JayKay I will say, i should have compared Jazzy to Ciaran not you, point still stands

Jazzy

CiaranC wrote: »

Its hard not to be condescending. Football fans all over the world are angry about the way football has gone since its been sky tv-ised. Seems like the heart of it is dying.

i like you CiaranC. you prove my points.




i didnt know that my "misguided" support was ultimately empty either elshambo. it doesnt feel empty. or am i just not at a high enough level of football to understand? if i go down the road and turn up at the next bray wanderers game will my level and therefore understanding increase? even tho i couldnt give two hoots if they win or lose?
if i dont feel any connection to a LoI club i dont feel a connection. i dont see how ppl telling me why i should have a connection changes it, especially if they are only doing so to make themselves feel better. isnt that wat smug is all about? take a look at gavin "shels" signature to see wat i mean about smug

OhNoYouDidn't

Jazzy wrote: »

im well aware of how ppl picked teams back in the day, but much like times these things change

What does that even mean?

Jazzy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

What does that even mean?

the way ppl (kids especially) pick wat team they support has changed drastically in the past 20 years. pretty simple i would have thought

elshambo

Jazzy wrote: »

i like you CiaranC. you prove my points.




i didnt know that my "misguided" support was ultimately empty either elshambo. it doesnt feel empty. or am i just not at a high enough level of football to understand? if i go down the road and turn up at the next bray wanderers game will my level and therefore understanding increase? even tho i couldnt give two hoots if they win or lose?
if i dont feel any connection to a LoI club i dont feel a connection. i dont see how ppl telling me why i should have a connection changes it, especially if they are only doing so to make themselves feel better. isnt that wat smug is all about? take a look at gavin "shels" signature to see wat i mean about smug

Read my earlier posts, i take digs at the smugness as much as anyone

ALL support of a football team is misgulded and therefore ultimately empty
They win, what do you get? the sence of achivement without the effort
If thats not a definition of EMPTY I dont know what is!?

IS Fun though:D

BTW for someone who doesnt care your in here a lot, "the lady doth protest too much"?

CiaranC

elshambo wrote: »

ALL support of a football team is misgulded and therefore ultimately empty
They win, what do you get? the sence of achivement without the effort

Dont really agree.

Theres far more to a football club than the 11 guys on the pitch. Rovers being a good example. Lots of effort goes into the club at all levels, members, board, stewards, merchandisers, office staff, webmasters, ultras, supporters clubs, club liasons, programme editors, schoolboy level etc.

Jazzy

elshambo wrote: »

Read my earlier posts, i take digs at the smugness as much as anyone

ALL support of a football team is misgulded and therefore ultimately empty
They win, what do you get? the sence of achivement without the effort
If thats not a definition of EMPTY I dont know what is!?

IS Fun though:D

BTW for someone who doesnt care your in here a lot, "the lady doth protest too much"?

yeah i suppose.
i just hate the attitude some ppl have on this subject and im more likely to post about that. a lot of the time theres this overwhelming sense of ppl wanting to get the one up over others about who they support and why. why it matters to them so much i will never fathom. i suppose its someones desire to make themselves feel better then the person next to them. same with almost all aspects in life. if slagging others about being "barstoolers" makes ppl feel better then ce la vie... they must not have much else going on they can feel better about

elshambo

CiaranC wrote: »

Dont really agree.

Theres far more to a football club than the 11 guys on the pitch. Rovers being a good example. Lots of effort goes into the club at all levels, members, board, stewards, merchandisers, office staff, webmasters, ultras, supporters clubs, club liasons, programme editors, schoolboy level etc.

you do know your kinda proved my point by bringing up Shams (cant call them rovers)

Are they JUST "supporters"
was going to mention shams as a club run by people for people but getting bored
and just wanted to stop typ...

bohsman

Jazzy wrote: »

yeah i suppose.
i just hate the attitude some ppl have on this subject and im more likely to post about that. a lot of the time theres this overwhelming sense of ppl wanting to get the one up over others about who they support and why. why it matters to them so much i will never fathom. i suppose its someones desire to make themselves feel better then the person next to them. same with almost all aspects in life. if slagging others about being "barstoolers" makes ppl feel better then ce la vie... they must not have much else going on they can feel better about

Pretty much agree with that, its pointless, Ive been dragging non supporters along to Dalymount all season for the bigger games which is always going to be more succesful than slagging them off, however equally frustrating is when people who have never seen a game turn up to say that the standard is terrible and their eyes are at too high a football level to watch it.

Nalz

Right

Lets all go to an eircom league this weekend
Lest all pick a team and support them
Lets make Irish soccer beter then it is
Lets improve all the things people find/see wrong in the Eircom League
Keep your Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Ipswich Town, MK Dons scarfs though for the soccer on the weekend though, no harm in that
And dont over do it on the Leo Burdocks if Dalymount is your chosen Sadium

Just do it

CiaranC

Trilla wrote: »

Right

Lets all go to an eircom league this weekend
Lest all pick a team and support them
Lets make Irish soccer beter then it is
Lets improve all the things people find/see wrong in the Eircom League
Keep your Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Ipswich Town, MK Dons scarfs though for the soccer on the weekend though, no harm in that
And dont over do it on the Leo Burdocks if Dalymount is your chosen Sadium

Just do it

Looks like we are all going to Donegal then...

elshambo

Trilla wrote: »

Right

Lets all go to an eircom league this weekend
Lest all pick a team and support them
Lets make Irish soccer beter then it is
Lets improve all the things people find/see wrong in the Eircom League
Keep your Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal, Ipswich Town, MK Dons scarfs though for the soccer on the weekend though, no harm in that
And dont over do it on the Leo Burdocks if Dalymount is your chosen Sadium

Just do it

I would agree but..
If only you had called it football instead of soccer....:D
ding ding

OhNoYouDidn't

Jazzy wrote: »

the way ppl (kids especially) pick wat team they support has changed drastically in the past 20 years. pretty simple i would have thought

Have you anything to back that thesis up?

And if you are going to quote me on your sig, try taking the whole quote.

Liverpool FC = murderers. 27 convictions.

Nalz

elshambo wrote: »

I would agree but..
If only you had called it football instead of soccer....:D
ding ding

Haha typo! I also said then instead of than...ah what can you do!

Bohs 2 - 0 Pats, league over btw