N25 - Waterford City Bypass

Guramoogah

This Waterford city bypass is a sick and dangerous joke. Driving from Fenor to the city and joining the Cork Road (N25) at the Butlerstown cross this morning, the volume of traffic from the Kilmeaden direction is as bad now as it was a year ago. The only way to get onto the road is take a chance - point the car and stomp on the accellerator and pray to Jesus that someone will brake to let you join. The motorists approaching Waterford from the Cork side are simply NOT USING THE BYPASS.

mike65

Guramoogah wrote: »

This Waterford city bypass is a sick and dangerous joke. Driving from Fenor to the city and joining the Cork Road (N25) at the Butlerstown cross this morning, the volume of traffic from the Kilmeaden direction is as bad now as it was a year ago. The only way to get onto the road is take a chance - point the car and stomp on the accellerator and pray to Jesus that someone will brake to let you join. The motorists approaching Waterford from the Cork side are simply NOT USING THE BYPASS.

So its not the bypass thats dangerous, its the whatever tha old road is now called (whats its designation?) still being as bad as ever. Can't wait for the first traffic survey, if the anecdotal evidence is to be belived its empty.

Guramoogah

Workmates here in the Waterford industrial estate tell me that the main reason they don't use the city bypass is because of the roundabout at the Cork Road/Outer Ring Road junction. If they join the bypass before Kilmeaden and try to get on to the Cork Road be coming up by B&Q, they have to give right-of-way to the traffic that's coming directly from Kilmeaden. Therefore, they gain advantage at rush hour by not using the bypass.

Bards

Guramoogah wrote: »

Workmates here in the Waterford industrial estate tell me that the main reason they don't use the city bypass is because of the roundabout at the Cork Road/Outer Ring Road junction. If they join the bypass before Kilmeaden and try to get on to the Cork Road be coming up by B&Q, they have to give right-of-way to the traffic that's coming directly from Kilmeaden. Therefore, they gain advantage at rush hour by not using the bypass.

I can see traffic calming measure being put in place before too long (Traffic lights anyone)

Guramoogah

mike65 wrote: »

So its not the bypass thats dangerous, its the whatever tha old road is now called (whats its designation?) still being as bad as ever. Can't wait for the first traffic survey, if the anecdotal evidence is to be belived its empty.

Looking at the maps on http://www.openstreetmap.org/ , the new designation appears to be R680.

Silverado

What sort of an individual would forsake a fast dual carriageway in favour of a busy and windy two lane road because of one large roundabout? I use the Cork Road roundabout daily and never get held up coming from the new bridge side. The logic in that argument is probably the same as those people who seem to be either afraid or unwilling to use the new bypass road.

Incidentally has anybody noticed the way most trucks and commercial vehicles are still using the Rice Bridge route instead of paying the toll on the new bridge.

Amtmann

Much of the discussion on the functioning of the bypass can now be picked up over on the Commuting and Transport forum. This thread was for discussing and recording the construction and routing of the WCB - and it did that job very well indeed. I'm going to lock it now and create a link on the archive thread. New threads to discuss physical aspects of the now operational bypass can of course be started on this forum, but proceedings on this thread are closed.

Amtmann

Re-opened by request.

Bards

Cheers Furet,

Interesting Topic in Engineers Ireland Journal this Month about the Suir Bridge

http://www.iei.ie/media/engineersireland/services/engineersjournal/2009/nov-dec2009issue9/Suir%20Bridge.pdf

mike65

this bit caught my eye

The tower crane which serviced the construction of the pylon
could also be deemed a star performer. It stood at a hook
height of 128m, connected at 80m via triple steel ties to the
pylon. Analysis of the complex structural arrangement of the
tied crane under an array of loading conditions is unlikely to
appear in a standard textbook. The crane operator faced the
daunting task of climbing the 437 ladder steps to his cabin,
which took about 40 minutes.

Given the cranes semi-permanent nature I'd have thought a winch/pulley system would have been appriciated.

brandon_flowers

Ok I haven't read all the posts on this thread and only travelled the road today fpr the first time but I have honestly never seen a more deserted road at half 8 in the morning and again at half 1 today.

Maybe Waterford was crying out for a bypass but it seems to me to be serious over-kill. I was the only car at the toll both at lunch time heading east or west. It might just be sheer luck that it was empty but I very much doubt it.

The bridge is impressive in fairness but again it seems like its an over-designed expensive piece of architecture.

alpha2zulu

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Maybe Waterford was crying out for a bypass but it seems to me to be serious over-kill. I was the only car at the toll both at lunch time heading east or west. It might just be sheer luck that it was empty but I very much doubt it.

From passing through the area every day, it appears to me at least that Slieverue to Grannagh Junction roundabout section on the Kilkenny side does receive a decent amount of traffic, but as you say any time i've been on the toll bridge its been deserted. As you drive under the overpasses at Grannagh on the N9, the mainline towards the bridge is invariably empty while the on/off ramps do a decent amount of business.

Waterford did need a bypass, just the 1.90 toll is hard to justify on a regular basis for locals and even for Cork-Rosslare route traffic their is now a very well travelled route for truckers dodging the toll, by using the old bridge then travelling down Bilberry via the Carrickpherish road to join the bypass where it meets the outer ring road. The potential is there to increase the toll bridge figures given the large volumes heading to WIT and industrial estate areas every day but if the toll rates stay the same the status quo will continue. Even an initiative like variable pricing at off peak etc would help the situation. Between the hours of 10pm and 6am when Waterford traffic lights on the old N25 route default to green, the time saving becomes quite marginal from my experience.

Sully

I see they have still not removed the black from the "Welcome to Waterford" sign as you come into Waterford towards the old bridge (for the life of me, I have forgotten that areas name).

I use the bypass mostly during the night - oddly, they close the baskets so you must give the money to the attendants. Always quiet. But, I have seen heavy traffic on the road towards New Ross so I assume people are just dodging paying.

alpha2zulu

Sully wrote: »

I see they have still not removed the black from the "Welcome to Waterford" sign as you come into Waterford towards the old bridge (for the life of me, I have forgotten that areas name).

.

Newrath. Its location practically within sight of the Kilkenny County Council Regional office in Newrath is probably doing the sign no favours either.

I use the bypass mostly during the night - oddly, they close the baskets so you must give the money to the attendants. Always quiet. But, I have seen heavy traffic on the road towards New Ross so I assume people are just dodging paying

The 2 times Ive gone through the toll at 830am the basket lanes were closed off with the attendants and the tag lane being the only way through.

road_high

brandon_flowers wrote: »

Ok I haven't read all the posts on this thread and only travelled the road today fpr the first time but I have honestly never seen a more deserted road at half 8 in the morning and again at half 1 today.

Maybe Waterford was crying out for a bypass but it seems to me to be serious over-kill. I was the only car at the toll both at lunch time heading east or west. It might just be sheer luck that it was empty but I very much doubt it.

The bridge is impressive in fairness but again it seems like its an over-designed expensive piece of architecture.

I cetainly don't think it was overkill. The Rice bridge carries/carried 40k+ cars per day. The bypass is designed to alleviate thisbottleknck.
However the major issue just is the toll rather than lack of demand or available traffic. 1.90 twice per day/5 days per week is money many people cannot afford and are willing to spend that extra 10/15 mins to avoid it. Simple as that really.

Carawaystick

Meant to post this a while ago, regarding the rice bridge being closed to traffic for the duration of the tall ships in waterford.

was listening to radio1 and the head of the tallships organisation remarked that the rice bridge would be closed to traffic so pedestrians could easily cross it to see the ships on both sides of the quays in Waterford.
There was no mention of a waiver on the toll and the alternative route is up to Fiddown and back, which is a looong detour.

Has anyone in Waterford/Kilkenny heard about this? seems to be on shakey ground if pushbikes and other traffic not allowed across the N25 bridge are inconvenienced so much.

Bards

Carawaystick wrote: »

Meant to post this a while ago, regarding the rice bridge being closed to traffic for the duration of the tall ships in waterford.

was listening to radio1 and the head of the tallships organisation remarked that the rice bridge would be closed to traffic so pedestrians could easily cross it to see the ships on both sides of the quays in Waterford.
There was no mention of a waiver on the toll and the alternative route is up to Fiddown and back, which is a looong detour.

Has anyone in Waterford/Kilkenny heard about this? seems to be on shakey ground if pushbikes and other traffic not allowed across the N25 bridge are inconvenienced so much.

Waterford Bypass will bne Toll Free for the duration of the Tall Ships

munchkin_utd

Bards wrote: »

Waterford Bypass will bne Toll Free for the duration of the Tall Ships

yup
“The availability of the M9 Dublin-Waterford motorway and – in particular - the Outer Ring Road and the Suir Bridge which will be toll-free during The Tall Ships Races 2011 are all assets when it comes to traffic planning for this major event. Our traffic plans are being outlined at this point so that commuters, residents and businesses can make any necessary alternative arrangements"
http://www.waterfordchamber.com/index.php/about-waterford/931-policing-and-logistics-details-outlined-for-tall-ships-races-2011

who will make up the lost revenue I wonder or are the private operators doing this out of the good of their heart?

Carawaystick

grand, the lad on the radio didn't mention anything about the toll being waived, and he was supposed to be running the thing...

munchkin_utd

Carawaystick wrote: »

grand, the lad on the radio didn't mention anything about the toll being waived, and he was supposed to be running the thing...

Well...
the page I linked was from the chamber of commerce and only a quote from a senior guard.

on the official site itsself, it makes no mention of the toll bridge being free that I could find amongst the masses of logistal information.

Bards

Don;t forget as part of the Toll Bye-Laws that there must be a toll-free alternative.

In This case with Rice bridge being closed there is no Toll Free alternative therefore the barriers must be lifted

Chris_5339762

The old N8 through Fermoy flooded last year and there was no question of tolls being waived on the M8

Jayuu

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The old N8 through Fermoy flooded last year and there was no question of tolls being waived on the M8

I would have said that this would be considered an "Act of God" as opposed to a planned closure for an event.

Trick of the Tail

Anyone noticed the junction numbers that have appeared on the signage on the N25 Waterford Bypass?

W1, W2 etc.

A.

Jayuu

alinton wrote: »

Anyone noticed the junction numbers that have appeared on the signage on the N25 Waterford Bypass?

W1, W2 etc.

A.

Sounds similar to the ones in Sligo (which are S1, S2 etc.). Obviously a way to give temporary numbers to junctions which can be replaced in the event of a full grade separated road being built.

Sully

Seen them in a good few places now, but the signage on the bypass has much improved.

Jamie2k9

From using the city bypass a lot can anybody tell me why it was build as a motorway as it will need to be one in time. I know there was talk of it being built as one but it didn't happen. What sort of costs would be involved in classing it as a motorway as IMO all it needs is blue signs and it will be grand. There is a few bends but nothing major and to stop it being a motorway.

Don't get this crap of such back words planning done in this country, if you going to build a bypass then do it right and not this high quality dual carriageway rubbish, should of being a motorway form day 1.

Bards

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

From using the city bypass a lot can anybody tell me why it was build as a motorway as it will need to be one in time. I know there was talk of it being built as one but it didn't happen. What sort of costs would be involved in classing it as a motorway as IMO all it needs is blue signs and it will be grand. There is a few bends but nothing major and to stop it being a motorway.

Don't get this crap of such back words planning done in this country, if you going to build a bypass then do it right and not this high quality dual carriageway rubbish, should of being a motorway form day 1.

It was built as a HQDC like all the other Inter Urbans, which were re-classified. So all it needs is a few different signs, some line painting, a Ministeral order and Hey Presto it's a Motorway

fricatus

The reason given at the time for not making it a motorway was that the NRA didn't want short stretches of motorway dotted around the country. I don't quite know how this makes sense, as there are plenty of such short stretches elsewhere.

If there's no motorway order attached to it, it means that a developer could well just apply to build 600 houses and have the entrance off the bypass, and then you're into another planning mess. Not going to happen any time soon, but wait until all this is forgotten and Fianna Fáil are back in power!

antoobrien

fricatus wrote: »

The reason given at the time for not making it a motorway was that the NRA didn't want short stretches of motorway dotted around the country. I don't quite know how this makes sense, as there are plenty of such short stretches elsewhere.

And there's the fact that this is supposed to be a bypass, making it a motorway reduces access to certain classes of road users. I hope if GCOB is ever built that it will not be motorway.

JupiterKid

antoobrien wrote: »

And there's the fact that this is supposed to be a bypass, making it a motorway reduces access to certain classes of road users. I hope if GCOB is ever built that it will not be motorway.

Agreed. I think that once the M17/M18, the M11 gap and the M20 are built we will have more than enough motorway for our needs.

antoobrien

JupiterKid wrote: »

Agreed. I think that once the M17/M18, the M11 gap and the M20 are built we will have more than enough motorway for our needs.

I think there's a need for at least HQDC, if not full m/way between Cork & Rosslare, but yes there's very little need for motorway.

That said, classifying roads as motorway is useful in curbing development, even better if they're classified before the act to stop developers from buying up land.

Jamie2k9

Well if it was a motorway it would improve journey times between Cork-Rosslare and other areas of Waterford to Dublin etc. I would use it more if it was a motorway but I have a real problem paying for a toll for a road that is not a motorway and the fact currently going through the city is more less the same give or take a few minutes outside peak times.

This bull about the NRA not wanting motorways dotted around the counrty when why is the N11 a motorway one minute and then dual carrageway.

BTW the plan is/was to have a dual carrageway or Motorway between Waterford and Rosslare and if funding wasn't stopped construction would of started later this year. The M17,8,20,25 was suposed to be part of the ARC between Donegal and Waterford and all to be motorway from Truim-Waterford.

Take the M50 being classed as a motorway when its not as you can't do motorway speeds, should be re classed as N50 but wonder why NRA won't do that....

Anoher ting the NRA didn't want the M9 to be a motorway between Carlow and Waterford but they were pushed into the decision. It just shows what sort of P**** are working there.

The M17 between Galway and Tuam will be just over 30 km and the Waterford bypass is around 25km so why are the NRA contradicting themselves??

Chris_5339762

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

This bull about the NRA not wanting motorways dotted around the counrty when why is the N11 a motorway one minute and then dual carrageway.

Because the northern section isn't motorway standard, then you have motorway, then you have the M11 gap which will be filled AS motorway, then you have the motorway Gorey bypass, and eventually M11 past Enniscorthy.

The only reason the M11 is patchwork at the moment is because Arklow - Rathnew hasn't been built yet. There was never a plan to do Cork - Rosslare as motorway, mostly as 2+2 with some Type 1 DC.

antoobrien

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anoher ting the NRA didn't want the M9 to be a motorway between Carlow and Waterford but they were pushed into the decision. It just shows what sort of P**** are working there.

The N6 wasn't supposed to be motorway standard either, but Dempsey asked was there any technical reason why the N6 & N9 couldn't be motorway. When he was told the HQDC was up to motorway standard, he published motorway orders to the N6 & N9 (at least).

jd

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Take the M50 being classed as a motorway when its not as you can't do motorway speeds, should be re classed as N50 but wonder why NRA won't do that....

It's an urban motorway, with narrower lanes, and some exits are quite close to each other. Are you seriously suggesting it should be declassified and opened to cyclists, animals and pedestrians because the limit is 100k?

If you travel on motorways/autostrada/autobahns/freeways etc abroad you'll notice that the speed limits may vary. 120km/hr is just the default speed for motorways in Ireland.

jd

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

This bull about the NRA not wanting motorways dotted around the counrty when why is the N11 a motorway one minute and then dual carrageway.

Quite a lot of the N11 is not up to motorway standard or has private entrances north of Rathnew. I presume they designated the Rathnew section as motorway so that when the Arklow-Rathnew gap is finished you'll have continuous motorway from Coynes Cross to south of Gorey (and South of Enniscorthy when the next scheme is completed in God know when)

Jamie2k9

jd wrote: »

It's an urban motorway, with narrower lanes, and some exits are quite close to each other. Are you seriously suggesting it should be declassified and opened to cyclists, animals and pedestrians because the limit isn't 100k?

If you travel on motorways/autostrada/autobahns/freeways etc abroad you'll notice that the speed limits may vary. 120km/hr is just the default speed for motorways in Ireland.

It should be classed as high quality dual carriageway like the Waterford bypass.

Even if its not classed as a motorway the local authorities can pass special speed limit by-laws permitting dual carriageways of 120km/h. It has being done on the N1, N22 and N25 already. The city bypass is like the joke speeds on the outer ring road. You can go faster on a country sub standred road compared to the outer ring road.

jd

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It should be classed as high quality dual carriageway like the Waterford bypass.

Why do you suggest that?

HQDC is a design spec. Something may be built to HQDC spec and then classed as a motorway. The M50 rightly operates under motorway restrictions.

Chris_5339762

Old thread, but anyway. No more movement on any N25 section

Just wondering... which junctions are W1, W2, W3 etc. I've been down there loads of times but can't remember. Can someone point out which one is W1, W2, W3 via a Google maps link? Thanks.

Jamie2k9

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Old thread, but anyway. No more movement on any N25 section

Just wondering... which junctions are W1, W2, W3 etc. I've been down there loads of times but can't remember. Can someone point out which one is W1, W2, W3 via a Google maps link? Thanks.

Jus the New Ross bypass from being build in 2015, open by 2017.

Just two junctions on city bypass.

W2 - Waterford (South), Airport, Tramore
W1 - Waterford (North), Dublin, Limerick

Coming from Cork side W2 first junction and W1 coming from Rosslare side.

loyatemu

I was on the Waterford bypass for the first time this week - great road, but why not a motorway (or at least a 120 limit like the N25 into Cork)?

lertsnim

loyatemu wrote: »

I was on the Waterford bypass for the first time this week - great road, but why not a motorway (or at least a 120 limit like the N25 into Cork)?

I've often wondered this too. It is certainly in a much better condition than the Middleton to Cork stretch.

Jamie2k9

loyatemu wrote: »

I was on the Waterford bypass for the first time this week - great road, but why not a motorway (or at least a 120 limit like the N25 into Cork)?

Should be 120km/h if only the local authority would do something about it!

Shane07

I drive this road most mornings and it should be 120km/h the route is built to motorway standard! Hopefully the short route between the Waterford City bypass and the New Ross bypass will progress to have 2+2 from Kilmeadan to east of New Ross!

Chris_5339762

Could easily be 120kmh, thats for sure. As for motorway, it would work as a reclassficiation, however the NRA originally said they didn't want isolated stretches of motorway so thats why they didn't do that.

loyatemu

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Could easily be 120kmh, thats for sure. As for motorway, it would work as a reclassficiation, however the NRA originally said they didn't want isolated stretches of motorway so thats why they didn't do that.

It already has signs up saying "no cyclist, pedestrians, horses" - not much of a jump to make it full motorway.

Bards

loyatemu wrote: »

It already has signs up saying "no cyclist, pedestrians, horses" - not much of a jump to make it full motorway.

That only covers the bridge and the junctions linking it either side of it, so most of the bypass allows pedestrians, horses, cyclists etc.

Aard

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Should be 120km/h if only the local authority would do something about it!

Not up to the LA -- it's the NRA that looks after that.

Jamie2k9

The N22 in Cork have a around 20km section of dual carriageway upgraded in addition to the N25 as already said.

Wouldn't expect the NRA are to bothered or willing to act!