Would you go to War?

pucan

Turd Ferguson wrote: »

War? What is it good for?

Movies and Commando comics

hussey

depends on war
if war in Iraq situation then no way JoseB

if it was to fight for survival against Nazi Germany Mark 2, then yes, maybe not on front line, I reckon I'd be more useful somewhere else

I could make the 'Hussey' Machine, to crack some code to win the war and then cause endless confusion of IT students for hundreds of years over some philosophical BS debate

Mahatma coat

in the case of an Invasion then YES, I am willing to defend the things I believe in and one of those is my Freedom and the Freedom of others.

so Frontline Infantry eh? no, Flying Columns FTW

course theres no way I'd participate in an Oil Grab

pucan

Kernel wrote: »

Good post. When I was younger I would have said yes, certainly. As I got older I realised that war was an abberation. A most disgusting act carried out by humans, and that wars are futile. OP, do you think your Grandfather or anyone else who fought in WWI were right to do so? Sorry, but they were pawns in a clash of colonial superpowers. The elites sent millions into industrialised killing fields and sacrificed them readily. At the conclusion of the war what was achieved?

The OP said WW2. Was that a futile war?
How about the korean war?

Rhinocharge

Hmmmm seems to be alot of people hiding behind our neutrality. Are people actually saying that if individuals are called tomorrow to defend the state, the people, your friends & families, your own being, that you wouldn't answer to the call?
If or when "war" comes a knocking are ye going to pretend your not in?
When given the choice of oppression or freedom which will you want?

The generation of today have it so easy compared to others, We haven't earned our freedom, it was handed to us.

War is neither good or bad. It has no reason & yes it is maddness, but when the invader comes & genocide is on the cards, what would you do?
Sometimes you cannot escape the fury of hate, you can only defend/fight against it.

The patriotic mumbo jumbo that the state will make or the rallying speeches made will not be the defining factor. When war is upon us their is little choice. Fight or surrender.

I for 1 will fight. For my own beliefs, to save my child from hopefully having to fight. When your on the lines you will fight for survival for yourself & those whom stand with you. At that stage personal beliefs go out the window. War kills indiscriminately. The human race have become so good at playing war that we can only now have war-ettes. We still haven't learnt from the past & we probably never will.

Just curious what will you do, when the army is wiped out bar the few stragglers, the bombs are falling & the tanks are rolling forever forward.
Where will ye go? Where will ye hide?
There is an evil of earth so lethal that man does fear, the fear is himself & the evil is not to believe it........................

KnifeWRENCH

If I signed up for the army they'd take one look at me, point and laugh and send me home.
I wouldn't mind being a spy though

Manic Moran

Famous Dead Guy Quote*

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

I wouldn't really have a choice. As a troop commander, it's sortof expected that I participate.

Have a look at your family history. Did you have relatives who fought? Be it in the Irish War of Independence, Irish Civil War or WW2? My closest combat veteran (after me!) was my grandfather, commanded a warship in the Greek Civil War (Monarchist side). Can one honestly fault that person who you grew up to know for doing what he believed in?

NTM

*John Stuart Mill, more precisely.

Lirange

Manic Moran wrote: »

Can one honestly fault that person who you grew up to know for doing what he believed in?

Do we really need to point out the implications of that statement? Humanity has believed in plenty of repugnant and dubious causes throughout history.

I bet you're a fan of Sparta. And the Sontarans.

Black Swan

Only if the Irish homeland was attacked, then both men and women would be needed.

Rhinocharge

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Only if the Irish homeland was attacked, then both men and women would be needed.

Define homeland. 26 counties or 32? Do the bomb blasts stop at the line on the map?
What's acceptable?

Overheal

oh shut up :rolleyes:

Manic Moran

Lirange wrote: »

Do we really need to point out the implications of that statement? Humanity has believed in plenty of repugnant and dubious causes throughout history.

True, but can you think of a better reason to fight? Surely you would not advocate fighting a war for something which you did not believe in? And if you did believe in something, why would it not be worth fighting for?

Almost anything done in society is looked at through the lens of society's majority viewpoint. This is fine in cases like WWII where there's a pretty hefty lean in favour of one direction, but is a more problematic litmus test for some less-clearly-concensed issues. Which side was 'wrong,' repugnant or dubious in the Irish Civil War? Some believed in full Irish independence, some believed in what they had being the best for then. I don't doubt the depth of feeling by participants on either side, and the country seemed pretty well split on the issue.

NTM

Rhinocharge

Overheal wrote: »

oh shut up :rolleyes:

Them is fighting words. I call ye out!!

Overheal

sure. *beep* oops youre nuked. kthxbai.

what were we talking about before i got so rudely irradiated?

Rhinocharge

Overheal wrote: »

sure. *beep* oops youre nuked. kthxbai.

what were we talking about before i got so rudely irradiated?

Whether you would fight for the freedom to live as you want, rather than have some foreign storm trooper arrive & whip your civie ass back to the stoneage.

foxhoundone

having been a past serviceman,.. having served my country...
i would say B****KS, all i did was serve someone elses agenda,:mad:

spooiirt!!

How about a new thread, equally intelligent thread titled : " If you could get shot, would you let yourself get shot?"

Overheal

spooiirt!! wrote: »

How about a new thread, equally intelligent thread titled : " If you could get shot, would you let yourself get shot?"

".....by?"

metalgear2k2

Yes I would.

Zangetsu

I'd fight to protect Ireland if needs be, front lines with a pitchfork and a shovel but only on home soil, none of this invaision jazz...

Poccington

foxhoundone wrote: »

having been a past serviceman,.. having served my country...
i would say B****KS, all i did was serve someone elses agenda,:mad:

Well ya see, that's one of the joys of being part of a military structure.

Other people outrank you, which means decisions they make and orders they give you must be followed. Did you join the military thinking you were gonna be some sort of free spirit doing as you please?

Don't say stuff like "I served someone elses agenda" as if it wasn't expected, it's what happens in the military. You do as your told or you go on your ticket.

Poccington

Kernel wrote: »

Good post. When I was younger I would have said yes, certainly. As I got older I realised that war was an abberation. A most disgusting act carried out by humans, and that wars are futile. OP, do you think your Grandfather or anyone else who fought in WWI were right to do so? Sorry, but they were pawns in a clash of colonial superpowers. The elites sent millions into industrialised killing fields and sacrificed them readily. At the conclusion of the war what was achieved?

I recommend reading War of the World by Niall Ferguson, or one of Anthony Beevors books (Berlin or Stalingrad in particular) to get a real feel for war and the human suffering that is dished out to the innocent bystanders most frequently. Even more disgusting is a war for oil which the US and Britain are now engaged in.

His Grandfather served in WW2.... Assuming his Grandfather spoke to him about his experiences during the war, you can't get much of a better feel for war than that.

2 civilians that have no experience of war, only hindsight on their side cannot in anyway give you a feel for war. You want a real feel for war? Then only those that have experienced it could give you even a little taste of it.

P.S. You better believe that his Grandfather was right to fight in WW2. Just by doing so he became part of a generation that people should hold in extremely high regard. His Grandfather and others that served in WW2 are heroes.

Tigger

no

wars are dangerous i think i would be one of those guys that stovckpile stuff ...a profiteer that it i'd be a profiteer

Mint Sauce

no, some one would have to stay behind and help re populate

Run_to_da_hills

Maybe the next major war will be between those in that impose this so called international "War on Terror" , Wooops! the "New World Order", and those that resist it.

Prof.Badass

If we had a chance of winning, I'd fight to defend Ireland. Otherwise I'd fight in the resistance.:cool:

Unless we were being freed from our evil dictator. :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it's right for the other county to invade us, but seeing as it's happening already why not reap the benefits?:)

Fratton Fred

To defend my family, no problem. My country? probably.

To defend someone's greed, no way.

ejmaztec

When it kicks off, I'm going to corner the market in tar and feathers, because there's always a high demand for these after peace breaks out.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Whether you would fight for the freedom to live as you want, rather than have some foreign storm trooper arrive & whip your civie ass back to the stoneage.

Well, I didn't have the freedom to live as I wanted in the first place, so I moved to Berlin.

I wouldn't, however, fight someone just for the sake of keeping some flag flying above a government building.

foxhoundone

MR POKINGTON

Don't say stuff like "I served someone elses agenda" as if it wasn't expected, it's what happens in
the military. You do as your told or you go on your ticket.[/quote]


AGENT PROVOCOTER or what,.. some if not most service people are hard working class people who want to get on in life and the only way is to join the armed forces. {not because they want to become lean green killing machines}, they are inlised at school to join the cadets/army recruitment.
machine shows glossy mags an free w/ends with food and pay to get guys to join the army, then once you are in thats it no courses if you object, to bulling,no career path if you dont toe the party line, and heaven help you you actually seek expert legal advise. i seen so many promising young guys/girls stuffed up the ass cause they stood up to the system . an the brass coverd their ass, if you actualy did any military time u would know this...

Fyr.Fytr

Yup, be a combat medic or an infantryman

KTRIC

I'd go to war if the following is threatened:

my freedom
my home
my loved ones
my country (not cork or longford )
my fellow countrymen and women

And lastly my bike, I'll fucking destroy anyone that touches it :mad:



There's no way I'd fight someone else's war.

It wasn't me!

foxhoundone wrote: »

AGENT PROVOCOTER or what,.. some if not most service people are hard working class people who want to get on in life and the only way is to join the armed forces. {not because they want to become lean green killing machines}, they are inlised at school to join the cadets/army recruitment.
machine shows glossy mags an free w/ends with food and pay to get guys to join the army, then once you are in thats it no courses if you object, to bulling,no career path if you dont toe the party line, and heaven help you you actually seek expert legal advise. i seen so many promising young guys/girls stuffed up the ass cause they stood up to the system . an the brass coverd their ass, if you actualy did any military time u would know this...

Unless I'm much mistaken, Poccington is a serving member of the Defence Forces.


In answer to the original question, yup. I intend joining the army when I finish college anyway, and yes, I'd fight. Many things are worth fighting for, and there are many good reasons to fight as well.

Anyone who has a go at the armed forces should probably have their head examined. These are people who voluntarily signed up to do a difficult and dangerous job in the hope that they'd improve their lives and those of others they've never met and who may never thank them in a host of ugly peacekeeping environments around the world. They don't have a go at those who went into software or whatever other civilian career anyone else found them in, and they certainly don't deserve to be sneered at as if they were pawns of some evil superpower and you know better than them. If they can respect your choice to get a desk job and live a comfortable, safe life in suburbia, nobody has the right to criticise their decision to live a little less comfortably and hopefully do some good with their lives.

LFCFan

If the earth was taken over by rogue machines, hell bent on destroying humanity, then yes, I would go to war, mainly because I'd have no choice. If it was to defend my freedom after the country was invaded, then yes, I'd go to war. If it was to remain Irish and keep the flag flying then you'd have to ask yourself would it be worth your life? If it was to keep our government safe and in power, hell no. If it was for something pointless, no. Anyway, me missus wouldn't let me

WindSock

If the place where I am living in gets invaded then I amn't going down without a fight.

cornbb

Would I go for war? Would I fcuk. Well... if I was certain it could help to stop a humanitarian catastrophe or a crisis of civilisation, then maybe. But anyone who blindly fights "for their country" is a fool. The word "hero" could not be more inappropriately applied, in such a case.

"What is a country? A country is a piece of land surrounded on all sides by boundaries, usually unnatural. Englishmen are dying for England, Americans are dying for America, Germans are dying for Germany, Russians are dying for Russia. There are now fifty or sixty countries fighting in this war. Surely so many countries can't all be worth dying for" - Joseph Heller, Catch 22.

beautiation

I'd stay at home and comfort the war widows.

SimpleSam06

Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, 1933.

Smedley Butler, "old gimlet eye" or "the fighting quaker", was a Major General in the U.S. Marine Corps and, at the time of his death, the most decorated Marine in U.S. history.

During his 34 years of Marine Corps service, Butler was awarded numerous medals for heroism including the Marine Corps Brevet Medal (the highest Marine medal at its time for officers), and subsequently the Medal of Honor twice. Notably, he is one of only 19 people to be twice awarded the Medal of Honor, and one of only three to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor, and the only person to be awarded a Marine Corps Brevet Medal and a Medal of Honor for two different actions.

I've quoted him before and I'll do so again:

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

Wake up.

Manic Moran

Quoting another famous dead guy.

http://www.poetryloverspage.com/poets/kipling/tommy.html

NTM

Ross_Mahon

I would never help my country, i would go to war simply for money, In other words i would join a Private military company. Lots of money involved in them, and its not as strict as the army.

shoelaceface

i run away screaming if someone even begins to run after me....

id be great help!:rolleyes:

silvervixen84

I absolutely would fight for my country if called up to do so. I'd like to be on sniper duty (have excellent eye sight, hate the cold and don't like walking/standing around too much)

Call Me Jimmy

FYI I'de be a spy.

Poccington

foxhoundone wrote: »

MR POKINGTON

Don't say stuff like "I served someone elses agenda" as if it wasn't expected, it's what happens in
the military. You do as your told or you go on your ticket.


AGENT PROVOCOTER or what,.. some if not most service people are hard working class people who want to get on in life and the only way is to join the armed forces. {not because they want to become lean green killing machines}, they are inlised at school to join the cadets/army recruitment.
machine shows glossy mags an free w/ends with food and pay to get guys to join the army, then once you are in thats it no courses if you object, to bulling,no career path if you dont toe the party line, and heaven help you you actually seek expert legal advise. i seen so many promising young guys/girls stuffed up the ass cause they stood up to the system . an the brass coverd their ass, if you actualy did any military time u would know this...

Well since I'm a serving member of the PDF, I would be qualified to make the comment I made.

Firstly, the Army doesn't enlist directly from schools. The closest thing to that is schools come in for weapons displays and the Army turn up at some career days.

As for the food and pay thing.... There is food and pay! Free weekends are quite the regular occurence with the odd weekend duty unless the Unit is busy with something or undermanned. There's plenty of courses and unless you somehow manged to piss off both the Company and Battalion Commander, nobody else can stop you from going on them apart from those 2 people. That includes PNCO, Standard Courses etc.

As for stood up to the system? Stop being so dramatic, it's not tyrants running the Army. If you really had a problem, go see the BPSSO and go through the proper channels. I've seen plenty of people "stand up to the system" and get a favourable result. This little idea that the Army is this big corrupt organisation is ridiculous.

Epic Tissue

Also no.

Manic Moran

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

In other words i would join a Private military company. Lots of money involved in them, and its not as strict as the army.

I would recommend against. In fact, when one of my soldiers was considering it, we pretty much all recommended against. It's just not worth the risk, their support plans (either tactical or medical) are non-existant.

NTM

Kernel

pucan wrote: »

The OP said WW2. Was that a futile war?
How about the korean war?

My mistake, I thought the OP mentioned WWI. WW2 was necessary to remove the totalitarian ideology which was spreading throughout Europe. Afterwards, Nazi Totalitarianism was replaced by Communist Totalitarianism across Eastern Europe, and a cold war which wasted trillions of dollars/resources, research and effort which could have been put to far greater use to humanity. WW2 also had the highest attrition rates of all wars before or since. You tell me if it was worth it? Bearing in mind that I am a believer in the New World Order and the ruling elites of bankers and capitalists. Is the new EU of today vastly different to what the Reich would have evolved to, apart from the clinical social engineering final solution? Wouldn't the Reich have gone through devolution similar to the British Empire?

Kernel

Rhinocharge wrote: »

Hmmmm seems to be alot of people hiding behind our neutrality. Are people actually saying that if individuals are called tomorrow to defend the state, the people, your friends & families, your own being, that you wouldn't answer to the call?
If or when "war" comes a knocking are ye going to pretend your not in?
When given the choice of oppression or freedom which will you want?

War is not the only way to defend the state. Do you defend the State at present against the oppression of criminality and anti-social behaviour which strips the freedoms and safety of our most vulnerable members? Do you ensure healthcare for those vulnerable people?

Kernel

Ross_Mahon wrote: »

I would never help my country, i would go to war simply for money, In other words i would join a Private military company. Lots of money involved in them, and its not as strict as the army.

You are morally bankrupt if you would go out and kill others for money.

Overflow

Poccington wrote: »

His Grandfather served in WW2.... Assuming his Grandfather spoke to him about his experiences during the war, you can't get much of a better feel for war than that.

2 civilians that have no experience of war, only hindsight on their side cannot in anyway give you a feel for war. You want a real feel for war? Then only those that have experienced it could give you even a little taste of it.

P.S. You better believe that his Grandfather was right to fight in WW2. Just by doing so he became part of a generation that people should hold in extremely high regard. His Grandfather and others that served in WW2 are heroes.

Thanks for your words. I am very proud that my Grandfather served in WW2. He personally told me of his experiences and what he went through. He showed me the scars he has from grenade shrapnel that was still lodged in his body when a friend in his squad jumped on a German grenade and took his own life to save his comrades. He showed me the bayonette that he took down many Nazi soldiers with. The man suffered up until the day he died with the memories of what happened over there.

Do i think he did it all for nothing, for someone else agenda, for his flag ? No he did it because he felt his and europes freedom was compromised, the killing millions of innocent people, the bombing of our neighboring country, where he had family. He did it because something had to be done, somehow it had to be stopped it and he wanted to be part of it.

I think we all take for granted the lives we have today and the fact is if people like my grandfather and the thousands of others did not enlist and want to do their part we would probably not have the lives we live today. Its easy for us all to say "Hell No" sitting here in our comfortable lives, but if that was threatened or your families safety, are you saying you would not do anything about it? I for one certainly would. I also think all the men and women who served and died in WW2 did not die for nothing, they died for our freedom and i to consider them hero's.