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Affordable House

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24

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    #32
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    you dont to justify being a single mother its not like you are getting it for free! what a ****ty thing to say that just because you are a single mum you shouldnt buy shoes or some other such ****e. If you want to buy a ten bedroom house for two people its no bodies business.

    Be very careful that you can afford this and be very careful of the clawback, they may have been 410 at the peak of the market but there is no way that you are getting 50 per cent off, its not possible. I would find out what they are selling at in the open market, in a year or two you may be able to get similar without being involved in the AH scheme and no clawback. If you really like the area and can see it being some where you want to stay then take their hand off but if its somewhere you are only going to be for a few years then dont do it.

    I don't know why its so cheap...its just the price the girl from the council said i would be paying. Thanks for the advice..i will think long and hard about this before i commit. Its something i really want to do but she also said i have the option of waiting til the next round. If i'm not completely confident then i will wait til the next round. Thanks to all for your support..has really helped me.:D


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    #33
    Supercell
    Registered Users Posts: 15,401 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    Good on ya gal, feck the begrudgers, you sound like your head is screwed on.

    I really don't understand Ireland sometimes, here is a girl thats working and supporting her kid and wants to better herself rather than just going on the dole and expecting handouts for doing feck all.

    If Irish society wont help people like Laura than we are morally bankrupt and deserve to slump into a recession because we cant see above our own ostrich feathers.
    https://www.loughlinstown.ie/

    Have a weather station?, why not join the Ireland Weather Network - http://irelandweather.eu/



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    #34
    jdivision
    Registered Users Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    they may have been 410 at the peak of the market but there is no way that you are getting 50 per cent off
    If the land was bought cheaply then it is. There's a certain developer who was getting more than E800k for houses on land near Malahide that had cost him E10k an acre. The three-bed affordable units released there were about e150k!! (albeit the affordable ones were sold about six years ago)


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    #35
    SkepticOne
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,718 ✭✭✭SkepticOne


    Are records publicly available of what is paid to builders for affordable houses? My interest is in how "cost" is calculated. Should, for example, councils be responsible for inflated land prices paid by builders during the last few years?

    Why are councils buying properties from builders that the builders can't sell on the open market? On the way up affordable houses were opposed by builders and very few were made available in the early years. Now on the way down, builders are only too happy to shift them onto councils who then further subsidise them.

    At the same time, we should not, imo, begrudge people such as Laura taking advantage of a scheme. From an individual point of view you would have to be mad to pay some of the prices ordinary punters are looking for their properties. Perhaps they bought at the top of the market and now cannot afford to sell any lower due to negative equity. Better to go for an affordable house even if the main purpose is to dig out builders.


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    #36
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Unfortunately I think the Affordable Housing Scheme really is just about the only thing propping up the property market at present. As a previous poster put it- on the way up builders were vehemently opposed to the AH scheme, but on the way down they are only too happy to offload the units onto the councils at inflated prices. Whether you like it or not- the taxpayer is subsidising even the AH prices of the units- along with making it far more difficult for those who have to buy outside of the affordable schemes (all 3) to actually manage to do so.

    Surely the fact that just shy of 58% of the adult population of Ireland qualifies for assistance in one or the other of the AH schemes, signifies the sheer lunacy of the schemes, and the total and utter delusions that we are all living under?

    It will be very interesting to see what the proposals are in the forthcoming budget- particularly given the pleased comments eminating from the Construction Industry Federation.

    With no disrespect to the OP- if the price you are paying under the AH scheme is 50% of what the 2006 price was for a larger unit- you are most probably getting it at approx 15-20% reduction on the open market selling price. The nominal price put on the unit by the council is balloney. If you read several threads on this forum by other people buying Affordable Houses- its actually the norm to have the property revalued to reflect current prices- do not accept the initial value put on it (but when querying this, you should note that while you are accepting the property, you do not accept the valuation put on it).

    A far bigger problem that Affordable Housing, and one which is unlikely to be tackled in the budget, is the vast number of apartments purchased by people desperate to get "on the property ladder" over the past few years. In a large number of cases these units are wholly unsuitable, along with being wholly unsaleable in the current market. While I don´t suggest these folk should be bailed out en-mass, unfortunately- how do you make a distinction between the 58.2% of the population who qualify for the AH schemes, and the other 16% who are in totally unsuitable accommodation?

    Its tempting to suggest to line up the politicians and shoot the lot of them en-mass, particularly since all of this was forecast in the 4 Bacon reports (since 1995)- I certainly don´t have an answer- but borrowing yet more money to try to bale out the bankrupt construction sector- lunacy, if you ask me.......

    If the government has a coherent plan of action on what it intends to do- why have we, the electorate, not been made aware of it?

    S.


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    #37
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Do councils buy houses for use as Affordable Housing?

    We bought ours directly off the developer, with little input from the CoCo (apart from allocating us a house). In fact, it was one of the conditions on the developers getting PP in the first place.


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    #38
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,651 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I've been told that affordable housing is a percentage of every new development that has to be set aside for affordable housing (~10%), and it's part of the planning permission. The developer is able to buy their way out of it, or swap houses between developments.

    In effect the cost on these units pushes the other units in the development up by 10%.

    Reading here, there seems to be widely differing opinions as to how this works, without anything official backing it up, and then you end up with people comparing it to social housing based on hear'say.

    So, does anyone have the official story, with proof to back it up with?


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    #39
    playtara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭playtara


    im a single mother to and i was on the waiting list 8yrs for council house,was living in mobile home for3yrs and never got offered a house i was assessed loads of times and told i was high on the list. i got a house before christmas but not from the council i think its a joke leaving people wait so long. just dont be expecting one soon.


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    #40
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    playtara wrote: »
    im a single mother to and i was on the waiting list 8yrs for council house,was living in mobile home for3yrs and never got offered a house i was assessed loads of times and told i was high on the list. i got a house before christmas but not from the council i think its a joke leaving people wait so long. just dont be expecting one soon.

    Playtara- with all due respect, the OP and everyone else here is talking about the Affordable Housing scheme (AH)- not social housing provided by councils etc. If you are unhappy about how council allocations of housing or the social housing schemes work- please start a new thread.


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    #41
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    astrofool wrote: »
    I've been told that affordable housing is a percentage of every new development that has to be set aside for affordable housing (~10%), and it's part of the planning permission. The developer is able to buy their way out of it, or swap houses between developments.

    In effect the cost on these units pushes the other units in the development up by 10%.

    Reading here, there seems to be widely differing opinions as to how this works, without anything official backing it up, and then you end up with people comparing it to social housing based on hear'say.

    So, does anyone have the official story, with proof to back it up with?

    Social Housing is a percentage of every new development (not affordable housing). Developers may elect to donate a sum to the council in lieu of this obligation (though this has been massively abused by developers over the past few years and is probably going to be terminated in the ongoing review at present).

    Affordable Housing is part financed by local councils. Properties are subsidised by councils to allow lower income people who would not otherwise have qualified financially, to purchase them.

    The reason for so much confusion is that the schemes have been interpreted in over 20 different ways by the different councils around the country. Indeed the Affordable Housing Scheme itself has been abused in some situations to assist particular developers (Galway Co.Co. were severly reprimanded over this last May).

    In some recent cases councils have included the provision of Affordable Housing (as oppossed to Social Housing) in the articles of planning permissions. In these instances the council agrees to pay the developer a set sum for the properties, the balance being paid by the person partaking in the AH scheme. Some councils run this programme themselves (Wicklow Co.Co. for example) others offload the administration onto the developer themselves (Laois and Offaly Co.Co.s for example).

    AH is subsidised by the County Councils- irrespective of the mechanism, it is subsidised. Social Housing is a statutory obligation placed on the developer under law and is a different measure entirely. Social Houses obviously are cross subsidised by charging a higher margin on the regular houses in a development- Affordable Houses are not, as the developer is getting his pound of flesh come what may.

    It makes very good sense for any purchaser of Affordable Housing to ensure that the valuation placed on their new home is the current open market valuation- and not some weird 2006 valuation that bears no semblence to what they would sell for tomorrow if he had to sell them. There are two benefits to this- 1. You´re saving the taxpayer money and 2. The Percentage reduction on the OMSP that you are being given by the council will obviously be a lot lower (so if you do sell it down the road- the clawback to the council will obviously be less than it would otherwise be).

    S.


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    #42
    playtara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26 ✭playtara


    im just saying she mite be waiting longer than she thinks.....


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    #43
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    astrofool wrote: »
    I've been told that affordable housing is a percentage of every new development that has to be set aside for affordable housing (~10%), and it's part of the planning permission. The developer is able to buy their way out of it, or swap houses between developments.

    In effect the cost on these units pushes the other units in the development up by 10%.

    Reading here, there seems to be widely differing opinions as to how this works, without anything official backing it up, and then you end up with people comparing it to social housing based on hear'say.

    So, does anyone have the official story, with proof to back it up with?
    both, some are given to the council at cost and some are bought by the council:
    the 1999 piece also allows the council to pay a subsidy directly to developer if needed, rather than build their own houses.

    http://www.environ.ie/en/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/HomeOwnership/AffordableHousing/

    1999 Affordable Housing Scheme
    Under the 1999 affordable housing scheme, local authorities provide newly built houses at a discounted price on their own lands. A site subsidy of up to €50,000 a house is available from the Department for the City Councils and the Dublin local authorities and €31,800 in other local authorities to assist them in making houses affordable. The purchaser can also benefit from a loan of up to 97% of the house price

    and then there is

    Part V of the Planning and Development Acts 2000-2006
    Part V of the Planning and Development Acts 2000 - 2006 requires, inter alia, that up to 20% of land zoned for residential developments or for a mix of residential and other uses, is to be reserved to meet social and affordable housing needs and be made available to the local authority at the existing use value rather than development value. Part V applies only to planning permissions for developments of 5 or more houses on zoned land of 0.1 hectares or more. It does not apply to developments by voluntary housing bodies, or to one-off housing.


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    #44
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,285 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    playtara wrote: »
    im just saying she mite be waiting longer than she thinks.....

    The assessments and waiting times for the Affordable Housing schemes and the Social Housing schemes are entirely different matters. I agree- she might be waiting a little longer than she might anticipate, but the example that you posted relates your experiences with an entirely different scheme, and is not relevant to the OPs situation.

    S.


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    #45
    subway
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,131 ✭✭✭subway


    and to the OP, if its the right house for you then good luck with it :)
    my earlier point about the valuation was that the 50% discount might be less if the value of the house has dropped. it will affect your clawback if you ever need to sell up


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    #46
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    Thanks everyone for all your help! I have to look into the claw back to make i fully understand. I'm not sure if i'll make it this round but at least i will have gone through the process and will be some bit wiser next time.

    thanks everyone i'll keep ye updated on what happens :D


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    #47
    byte
    Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 19,120 Mod ✭✭✭✭byte
    byte


    Best of luck with it.


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    #48
    jackal
    Registered Users Posts: 794 ✭✭✭jackal


    People, if you have a problem with the Affordable Housing Scheme, please take it up with your T.D. If you think the OP personally is not getting a good deal, then say why.

    Rants against the AH scheme should not be directed at the people offered Affordable Housing, and the bigoted comments about single mothers make any decent points you may throw in very easy to ignore.


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    #49
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    yeah working hard for herself and her family and buying houses god damn single mothers? Just so different from everyone else.


    Working just as hard as everyone else but because of being a single mother getting a cheap house - I wish we were all as lucky & our main worry was not being able to afford sky! The rest of the taxpayers are covering the cost of this 'affordable' housing


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    #50
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    Deleted User wrote: »
    She's not getting it for nothing.
    It's an affordable house, she will have to pay a mortgage.
    And even if she was getting it for nothing, who the hell are you to comment when you don't know her circumstances? How do you know she wasn't married and had her hubby run off/be unfortunate to end up with a loser who wouldn't support his child?

    You CHOSE to pay a large mortgage. Get over it.

    I CHOSE to put a roof over my head - and with Dublin prices so high the size of the mortgage isn't really a choice. We both looked at moving out of Dublin but jobs were not available in what we work at so we would need to retrain - not at option at this time.

    As for 'who am I to comment' this is a discussion board, correct?


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    #51
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    laurak265 wrote: »
    Your taxes don't pay for it! The builder gets planning permission for his estate from the council in return for him building a certain no of affordable homes! They are smaller and less kitted out than the normal prices ones! They are then bought by the council and alotted to lower income people to enable them to get on the property ladder. That person then gets a mortgage and pays the council for the house! If the house is sold for profit then a percentage of that has to be paid to the council so that the initial purchaser doesn't make money off it. That percentage paid back to the council is money used to buy more house to help other people!

    How does the council get the money to buy the houses from the developer if it is not from taxes?


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    #52
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    tomcollins97 wrote: »
    How does the council get the money to buy the houses from the developer if it is not from taxes?


    Well if the builder has to pay the council 14k per house built for damages to roads and connection to services...thats a good chunk of it! Then remember i get a mortgage for my house and i pay it to the council and pay it back to the lending institution so thats where it comes from! The houses i'm talking of moving into have only just be handed over to the council to allocate!! So its not like the council had spent your taxes on them months ago!


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    #53
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    tomcollins97 wrote: »
    Working just as hard as everyone else but because of being a single mother getting a cheap house - I wish we were all as lucky & our main worry was not being able to afford sky! The rest of the taxpayers are covering the cost of this 'affordable' housing

    I am not getting a house cheap because i'm a single mother. I am buying an affordable house because i don't earn enough money to buy a house in my area. Single people also take this up as do low income couples! I'm not moving into an estate of single mammies!! Please don't think that i'm using my child to get a house, He will of course be living with me because it would be our home but its not because of him i'm getting it!

    My main worry was not that i wouldn't be able to afford sky! If you actually go back and READ my post it was all my bills...esb, gas, bins, tv licience and the cost of furnishing my house! Sky was on the bottom of the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *sshole!


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    #54
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    laurak265 wrote: »
    My main worry was not that i wouldn't be able to afford sky! If you actually go back and READ my post it was all my bills...esb, gas, bins, tv licience and the cost of furnishing my house! Sky was on the bottom of the list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *sshole!

    no need to be offensive just because you do not like/agree with my opinion. Resorting to name calling is not the way to conduct a discussion. You are never going to agree with everyone who posts to boards.ie - that goes with the territory. When you post a question you should be prepared for answers you do not like. If you really do not agree with the post you can reply, however name calling is not the most effective way of getting your point across in an eloquent & adult manner.


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    #55
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    tomcollins97 wrote: »
    no need to be offensive just because you do not like/agree with my opinion. Resorting to name calling is not the way to conduct a discussion. You are never going to agree with everyone who posts to boards.ie - that goes with the territory. When you post a question you should be prepared for answers you do not like. If you really do not agree with the post you can reply, however name calling is not the most effective way of getting your point across in an eloquent & adult manner.

    Were you answering my question?? My question was...Was there anyone who had been in a similar situation and had they any advice for me? You actually called my a typical single mother...using the system to get a house! You don't know me and you don't know how hard i struggle NOT to be what you just called me!


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    #56
    CiaranC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,300 ✭✭✭CiaranC


    tomcollins97 wrote: »
    I CHOSE to put a roof over my head
    No, you chose to pay a large mortgage. You could just as easily have rented.


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    #57
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    laurak265 wrote: »
    Were you answering my question?? My question was...Was there anyone who had been in a similar situation and had they any advice for me? You actually called my a typical single mother...using the system to get a house! You don't know me and you don't know how hard i struggle NOT to be what you just called me!

    Likewise you do not know me or my daily struggles to put a roof over my head. I am not in your situation.

    Previously I did go on the list - but by the time I was called my income had just risen above the threshold. By that time I had decided not to persue social housing for a number of reasons:
    • The council owns the equity you make on the proprty for a number of years. This leaves you stuck in the system as if in 10 years time you want to move you will not have earned enough equity on the property to have kept up with the housing market so will still be on the bottom rung of the ladder
    • An apartment was what I would have be offered, as I had no children. If this had changed I would have had to reaply for a house & possibly move area
    • Resentment from neighbours. A number of people do not like the idea of their next door neighbout paying a much lower mortage than they do. This is not just my opinion. RTE had a program on a few weeks ago that interviewed a number of people in social housing units in Grand Canal Dock. A number of people had been relocated from inner city areas. They generally felt resentment towards them from people who had paid full price for their home. So much so that they set up their own social housing residents association
    • I did not want to live in an area where I and my future children would not be able to keep up with the social background of others who lived there. For example, more affluent areas tend to have more expensive pubs, cafes, shops, restaurants etc. Any future children would be going to a local school where they would mix with local kids who would potentially come from a more privalaged background - this could lead to issues in school such as bullying. Not having the right runners, labeled clothes etc.
    The above is my opionion. If you do not agree I'm sure you will let me know! Regarding the 'typical single mother' comment this is how your original post read to me. Not having all the info, certain assumptions were made based on the information available at the time. But, when using boards.ie which is an anonymous message board you should not get riled so easily! No one knows the details of everyones situation so will make assumptions & form opinions which you will not always agree with


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    #58
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    CiaranC wrote: »
    No, you chose to pay a large mortgage. You could just as easily have rented.

    Rent & mortgage are roughly the same - depending on where you are living. Rent gives little security, you are in someones else's property, living with their choice of decor & possibly furniture. For example, putting nails in walls for pictures is not possible, you are not in a home, you are in a house. I chose not to live my life that way. So yes, I suppose I, like thousands of others, chose to be crippled by a large mortgage.


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    #59
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    Tom, its monday morning and i haven't the energy to fight with ya! Thank you for your input and experience of Affordable housing it much appreciated.

    PS I only mentioned i was a single mother so that people replying would understand that i had 2 mouths to feed and 2 backs to cloth and that inflatable furniture wouldn't be an option for me ;) (Sharp toys and all)


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    #60
    tomcollins97
    Closed Accounts Posts: 951 ✭✭✭tomcollins97


    laurak265 wrote: »
    Tom, its monday morning and i haven't the energy to fight with ya! Thank you for your input and experience of Affordable housing it much appreciated.

    PS I only mentioned i was a single mother so that people replying would understand that i had 2 mouths to feed and 2 backs to cloth and that inflatable furniture wouldn't be an option for me ;) (Sharp toys and all)

    Its not a fight! Friends?? ;)


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    #61
    laurak265
    Closed Accounts Posts: 205 ✭✭laurak265


    tomcollins97 wrote: »
    Its not a fight! Friends?? ;)

    Yep! ;)


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