Georgia vs Ireland

IRISHSPORTSGUY

eirebhoy wrote: »

When I heard that Trap had watched every Ireland game from the last few years I knew he'd be impressed with McShane. I said this months ago. I'm pretty certain if McShane didn't get that injury in the summer and went to Hull in the summer he would have played last night. Trap isn't just selecting him. He rates him.


Gary Caldwell is far more accomplished than Bobo Balde but put Balde beside even a Kenny Cunningham and you'll doing well to find much better. I hope you get my point.

I would rather Caldwell partner Cunningham in that case tbh. I think Dunne makes him look better than he actually is at international level and at club level he was shocking in a poor Sunderland defence until he was dropped in January. Good players should stand out in a poor team.

LuckyLloyd

McShane is a good honest footballer - who lacks the requisite pace to be a fit at the top level (premiership / international / top divison in another major league / etc). He would be an above average starter in the Championship - and at the moment he is a body who can cover at centre - half for us due to the paucity of depth we have at that position.

The reason he looked great in that game against the Czech Republic is because he didn't have to deal with pace. Put a nut and bolts physical challenge up to him and he will be able to deal with it.

But being too harsh on him is ultimately unfair - that he isn't good enough is not because of a lack of effort.

Xavi6

eirebhoy wrote: »

When I heard that Trap had watched every Ireland game from the last few years I knew he'd be impressed with McShane. I said this months ago. I'm pretty certain if McShane didn't get that injury in the summer and went to Hull in the summer he would have played last night. Trap isn't just selecting him. He rates him.

Or, as I said, we just don't have anyone else.

Everyone knows we're light on players to play at the back, sure Kilbane has been forced to convert to full back such is the shortage. McShane is not in that squad because he is so good, he's there because we don't have other options and therefore Trap has no choice but to 'rate' him.

eirebhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The reason he looked great in that game against the Czech Republic is because he didn't have to deal with pace. Put a nut and bolts physical challenge up to him and he will be able to deal with it.

He was man of the match in his last game for Ireland though against a team with a lot more pace. His 2nd half particularly was superb.

noodler

Kelly should come on for Finnan last night no?

IRISHSPORTSGUY

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

McShane is a good honest footballer - who lacks the requisite pace to be a fit at the top level (premiership / international / top divison in another major league / etc). He would be an above average starter in the Championship - and at the moment he is a body who can cover at centre - half for us due to the paucity of depth we have at that position.

The reason he looked great in that game against the Czech Republic is because he didn't have to deal with pace. Put a nut and bolts physical challenge up to him and he will be able to deal with it.

But being too harsh on him is ultimately unfair - that he isn't good enough is not because of a lack of effort.

Some good points there.

He also doesn't have the positional intelligence to compensate for a lack of pace at the top level.

LuckyLloyd

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

He also doesn't have the positional intelligence to compensate for a lack of pace at the top level.

Agree, that will improve to some extent with time though.

eirebhoy

Xavi6 wrote: »

Or, as I said, we just don't have anyone else.

Everyone knows we're light on players to play at the back, sure Kilbane has been forced to convert to full back such is the shortage. McShane is not in that squad because he is so good, he's there because we don't have other options and therefore Trap has no choice but to 'rate' him.

I don't think many Irish would have had McShane-Dunne as our first choice. If he didn't injur himself during the summer that would be Trap's first choice.

He also doesn't have the positional intelligence to compensate for a lack of pace at the top level.

But very few young centre halves do. He'll gain that in the years to come, I'm sure of that. He's the type that'd read loads and watch loads of video's to improve his game. He'll never be content. For the time being he needs someone experienced beside him. Again like most young players. Even the £30m rated Micah Richards.

"Playing with 'Dunney' week in, week out has improved me massively as a player."

McShane could do with playing beside better than Danny Higginbottom at club level.

noodler

If O'Shea can keep up the way he played last night (car the goal) then I will be happy enough to see him play there. Finnan played very well. What a differene to stability the guy makes.

noodler

Hunt Doyle and Given are doubts for Wed according to SSN.

eirebhoy

noodler wrote: »

Hunt Doyle and Given are doubts for Wed according to SSN.

Do players tackle harder at international level or something? This happens before every Ireland game.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

eirebhoy wrote: »

I don't think many Irish would have had McShane-Dunne as our first choice. If he didn't injur himself during the summer that would be Trap's first choice.


But very few young centre halves do. He'll gain that in the years to come, I'm sure of that. He's the type that'd read loads and watch loads of video's to improve his game. He'll never be content. For the time being he needs someone experienced beside him. Again like most young players. Even the £30m rated Micah Richards.

"Playing with 'Dunney' week in, week out has improved me massively as a player."

McShane could do with playing beside better than Danny Higginbottom at club level.

Jonny Evans is far superior, is younger than him and has plenty of tactical nous. SAFC just signed Anton Ferdinand who is just 11 months older than McShane - not a world beater by any stretch of the imagination but intelligent positionally and can hold his own at Premier League level - that is the bar McShane should be at. Bottom line is there is a reason Keane isn't selecting him and it isn't because of his defensive partner - basically he is ****e to put it bluntly. He will never be a Premier League player IMO.

shane86

noodler wrote: »

Hunt Doyle and Given are doubts for Wed according to SSN.

Oh ffs What happned to Given? Cant remember him in a serious clash last night.

JimiTime

Pretty poor match. Not sure if its already been said, but we need some creativity in the midfield. I don't think I've seen a game with so little chances. Apart from Villa - Liverpool last week maybe.

Positives:
1)We look like we are competant. And look like we've a plan.
2) Well organised.
3) not afraid to play, i.e. defence passes is out from the back.
4) Possesion football. Though this lapsed at times for reasons you'll see in my 'Cons' list:). We were patient, weren't afraid to go backwards in keeping possesion.
5) Stephen Reid.

Negatives:
1) No creativity. the team cries out for Andy Reid.
2.) Our possesion football went pretty much nowhere most of the time. doyle hasn't got the sharpness to play quick off keane.
3.) Forward line missing the link to make it all come together. I.E. Andy reid.

I suppose, the negatives come down to a lack of creativity, which I think could be solved by A.Reid. seen him for Sunderland a bit, and he's cetainly not afraid to mix it neither. Obviously not to Hunts extent, but he gives us so much more IMO. I am very curious as to why he doesn't play him The substitutions were bizarre considering he had Reid there. I mean, Miller when Whealen and S.Reid were there

All in all, I'm positive, with reservations. Management may be a little too conservative, and I really hope its not our un-doing. Looking forward to wednesday.

TripleAce

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

I was gutted when the Italians scored. I was checking teletext every few seconds when I finally decided to view it via an online stream. I was nearly in tears when the pizza munching, long haired gits scored.

On another note, we are in a very good position if we win on Wednesday - a 2 pt head start on Bulgaria obviously.

I really don't get this kind of thinking....you should be delighted that Cyprus lost a point here. What were you hoping for? Italy to draw and Ireland to make a run for first place all the way through? Do you seriously think for one second that Italy won't top the group? Live in Dreamland.....

Hope for Italy to win every single game here and not to drop points against teams that could cost Ireland and second place and the chance to qualify for the WC.

noodler

Thats exactly what he and most other fans would have been thinking. Catching the Italians on the hop after a crap WC. Not to mention the fact our record in Play Offs is attrocious.

Christ, I hope you are more ambitious than this in real life.

SantryRed

TripleAce wrote: »

I really don't get this kind of thinking....you should be delighted that Cyprus lost a point here. What were you hoping for? Italy to draw and Ireland to make a run for first place all the way through? Do you seriously think for one second that Italy won't top the group? Live in Dreamland.....

Hope for Italy to win every single game here and not to drop points against teams that could cost Ireland and second place and the chance to qualify for the WC.

You think CYprus can qualify?:pac:

I'll eat me own sh1t if Cyrpus finish ahead of us.

Talk about lack of ambition:rolleyes:

CiaranC

SantryRed wrote: »

You think CYprus can qualify?:pac:

I'll eat me own sh1t if Cyrpus finish ahead of us.

Talk about lack of ambition:rolleyes:

Did you watch the Cyprus Italy game? Cyprus looked very strong.

We only got 3 more points than them last time round, and they look like theyve come on again.

noodler

They still won't qualify. They travel worse than us.

pesireland

SantryRed wrote: »

You think CYprus can qualify?:pac:

I'll eat me own sh1t if Cyrpus finish ahead of us.

Talk about lack of ambition:rolleyes:

damn i'd nearly wish they would now just to see that , but back to the game, i was delighted with irelands performance on saturday night, totally perfessional performance imo, Reid and Whelan look very good together in midfield, Someone told me at the weekend that Delap is in the Stoke team ahead of Whelan, if this is true Stoke are heading straight back down.

Whelan while not trying anything oustanding Hollywood passes was very comfortable on the ball, broke up play, he just done the simple things and kept the ball moving.

I really think people will drop points away to Georgia in Tabsli, it was lucky for us that we played at a Nutruel ground, these points could make all the difference come the end of the group.

noodler

Why would you say stuff like that about Delap? Have you seen stoke this season? Geez, even in the highlights it was quite clear the role he was playing in their win over Villa.

Im happy cos I had zero expectations of Whelan but lets not go nuts here.

CiaranC

noodler wrote: »

They still won't qualify. They travel worse than us.

Travelled alright to Croke Park last time. They took 4 points off us and it should have been 6.

They have a club side in the CL, which would have seemed equally unlikely as them qualifying for the WC a while back. Hope the players arent as complacent as some here, or were in trouble.

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

Why would you say stuff like that about Delap? Have you seen stoke this season? Geez, even in the highlights it was quite clear the role he was playing in their win over Villa.

Im happy cos I had zero expectations of Whelan but lets not go nuts here.

Yeah, the role of launching the ball into the box every time got a throw in inside Villa's half.

noodler

What kind of a half-arsed argument is that? They drew one game away from home? So that makes them good travellers?

Ever heard of the exception to the rule?

Not to mention the fact we were in serious turmoil at the time.

CiaranC

noodler wrote: »

What kind of a half-arsed argument is that? They drew one game away from home? So that makes them good travellers?

Ever heard of the exception to the rule?

Not to mention the fact we were in serious turmoil at the time.

Fair enough, their away form was poor. Ours hardly set the world on fire either though. Only win was a 94th minute winner against the mighty San Marino.

Hopefully Trappatoni will have magically converted our pampered premiership superstars back into honest footballers.

noodler

But what I said was their away form is EVEN worse than ours.

I seriously don't know where you're coming from.

Delap's throw-ins? Game winner wasn't it?

TripleAce

noodler wrote: »

Christ, I hope you are more ambitious than this in real life.

Well, I am Italian myself, so this may explain my "lack of ambition" regarding Ireland topping the group

Anyway looking at the other groups I see a lot of weak seconds, so I don't see why you are so pessimistic about playing the play offs....

noodler

Who do you see as a weak second for argument's sake?

CiaranC

noodler wrote: »

But what I said was their away form is EVEN worse than ours.

I seriously don't know where you're coming from.

Im simply pointing out that Cyprus are an improved side and will take points off sides in this qualifying series, they shouldnt be underestimated.

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

Delap's throw-ins? Game winner wasn't it?

Are you advocating that a player should warrant a place in the Ireland team based on his ability to take a good throw in?

TripleAce

noodler wrote: »

Who do you see as a weak second for argument's sake?

Groups 2-3-5-7-9, Group 2 being the weakest ever.

noodler

We are talking about a team of relegation candidates who should employ every method possible to gain an advantage. Irregardless, I said from the highlights didn't I?-Im sure there are other attributes Pulis sees in him.

I would have to trust the Stoke manager's judgement here. Delap has a great deal of experience.

noodler

I want country names please. Who you actually expect to finish second?

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

We are talking about a team of relegation candidates who should employ every method possible to gain an advantage. Irregardless, I said from the highlights didn't I?-Im sure there are other attributes Pulis sees in him.

I would have to trust the Stoke manager's judgement here. Delap has a great deal of experience.

Are Ireland battling relegation? Do we need to resort to those sort of methods to score goals and win games? The answer to both questions is quite clearly no.

I can't believe you're drawing comparisons between Ireland and Stoke.

noodler

You'd br hard pressed to actually provide any proof that I am comparing anything. Another user announced his, rather blasse, opinion that Stoke are facing relegation with Delap in their side instead of Whelan (Despite the fact they are different players).

I thought such blatant disregard for the ability and experience of Delap (in favour of someone most people have seen play once or twice) was pretty uncalled for.

Theres actually little comparison with the Irish team there. Feel free to put words in my mouth again though.

Xavi6

noodler wrote: »

You'd br hard pressed to actually provide any proof that I am comparing anything. Another user announced his, rather blasse, opinion that Stoke are facing relegation with Delap in their side instead of Whelan (Despite the fact they are different players).

I thought such blatant disregard for the ability and experience of Delap (in favour of someone most people have seen play once or twice) was pretty uncalled for.

Theres actually little comparison with the Irish team there. Feel free to put words in my mouth again though.

Lol says the man who only a few short minutes ago posted that his opinion was based on highlights he'd seen of the Villa game.

I haven't put any words in your mouth. I asked you a question regarding your justification for putting Delap in the Irish team.

noodler

But I did say my opinion on Delap this season is based on highlights-thats just honesty. Who can say they have seen Stoke for 90 mins this season? Show me where I said Rory Delap should be in the IRISH team because of his throw-ins?

You have jumped the gun here and assumed I was talking about Ireland when it was clearly Stoke.

BTW: My overall opinion on someone like Delap would be based on the other ten years he has had in Prem and Championship football. Highlights are all I have seen this season.

TripleAce

noodler wrote: »

I want country names please. Who you actually expect to finish second?

Switzerland (G2)
Poland (G3)
Turkey (G5)
Romania (G7) - but you may get lucky and get France
Macedonia (G9)

This assuming that the best teams top the groups and that the second best get second.....

Ireland should not fear any of the teams above (maybe Romania) on a 2-leg game. IMHO much easier this, than topping Group 8

noodler

G2: Swiss or Israel. Our record against them recently is awful

G3: Czechs, or Poles. Poles always qualify, couldn't beat the Czechs last time round.

G5: Turkey or Spain: Span speaks for itself but gong to Turkey wouldn't make ayone optimistic.

G7: Romania, France or Serbia-all tough.

G9: I still expect either Scotland or Norway to come second here. Our best chance would be to play these.



Its not very appetising. Ample motivation to try and top our group first time around.



G6

herbieflowers

noodler wrote: »

G2: Swiss or Israel. Our record against them recently is awful

G3: Czechs, or Poles. Poles always qualify, couldn't beat the Czechs last time round.

G5: Turkey or Spain: Span speaks for itself but gong to Turkey wouldn't make ayone optimistic.

G7: Romania, France or Serbia-all tough.

G9: I still expect either Scotland or Norway to come second here. Our best chance would be to play these.



Its not very appetising. Ample motivation to try and top our group first time around.



G6

Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We only beat Georgia...

noodler

God, analysing the other groups to see who may finish 2nd isn't getting ahead of yourself. I am only trying to show finishing second shouldn't be a goal in itself.

Did you not read he preceding pages?

herbieflowers

we mightn't even finish second, that was my point. One game in and people are heralding a new dawn

noodler

So you think people are going to avoid the temptation to guess who they may play in the play-offs?

Even when we went to the Czech Republic needing a win last year, despite all our problems that campaign, we were entertaining the notion of a play-off.

TripleAce

noodler wrote: »

G7: Romania, France or Serbia-all tough.

You are wrong here...they are pussies

noodler

Id have to disagree.

TripleAce

I think Ireland is in with a big chance this time....it will all come down to sneak those 1-0 wins that average teams usually draw because they can't maximize the opportunities in front of goal (Keane miss could have cost big time!).

No need for fancy football, Ireland has got to be cynical and on the day can beat anyone!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

TripleAce wrote: »

You are wrong here...they are pussies

That group 7 could be the upset group if the opening weend is anything to go by. Anyone fancy a trip to Lithuania?

BaZmO*

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

That group 7 could be the upset group if the opening weend is anything to go by. Anyone fancy a trip to Lithuania?

Actually going there in a couple of weeks time! :pac:

Still can't believe they beat Romania 3-0 away from home, and Austria beating France 3-1 is just madness.