FYI - M4 & Tolltag.ie

crosstownk

Howdy All,

I just passed through the M4 toll with my shiney new Tolltag. tag. I saw the electronic bilboard that said 'All tags accepted in all lanes' and carried on to one of the cash only lanes. The tag beeped three times but the barrier remained down. So I had to reverse back (thankfully there wasn't any cars behind me) and head for a cashier lane to pay. The tag beeped another three times and the barrier stayed put. I asked the cashier what had he heard of other problems with tags. He said they weren't accepting them yet :rolleyes:. Anyway, no point in arguing it with him but I did suggest that he tell someone to remove the electronic sign indicating that all tags were accepted. So I paid in cash and drove on.

I then rang the Tolltag people and asked them what the problem was. I was informed that there was a problem with the M4 platform and it would be a few days before the problem was resolved.

So if anyone is planning on using one of these tags on the M4 tolled section in the next few days, be sure to have some cash with you and head to cashier booth - just in case!

fletch

What happens in this instance if you've no cash or cards with you? Do they send you an invoice for €2.70?

crosstownk

fletch wrote: »

What happens in this instance if you've no cash or cards with you? Do they send you an invoice for €2.60 €2.70?

No idea! That's why I posted - just to save someone the possible hassle.

cabrwab

Jesus WTF. I thought this mess was cleared up ages ago. Hope you have't being charged 3times on your tag for it!!!

Redsoxfan

Slightly related-I took the Enfield exit off the M4 some months back-around 7pm or thereabouts. I have an EazyPass. Pulled up to a toll booth-nobody there and the barrier didn't open despite me waving the pass all over the place (worked fine that morning on the main toll plaza). Had no cash.

Pressed the buzzer-was asked to read out my toll tag number-did so-was told that I had not been charged and would have to pay some other way. Used my credit card-asked for a receipt-was told by the voice that I couldn't have one. So, if had wanted to re-enter the M4 and continue on to Maynooth (my final destination) I would have been charged again at the main plaza (I took the old N4 back instead).

My point-what if I had no card-would they have raised the barrier?

Or asked me to reverse down the offramp and back onto to the motorway?

Is it ridiculous that such booths are unmanned at what is still relatively early in the evening?

crosstownk

I passed back through the M4 Toll Plaza around 5pm and same thing - only this time I went to a cashier as I didn't expect it to work.

I've just logged on to my Tolltag.ie account and no sign of any charges - but I'll be keeping an eye on it just in case it takes a while to update.

The thing is, I'm not so confident about using the M50 now in case it doesn't work............

Random

The T&C of the tags suggest you should have alternative means of payment ready so I guess in that regard it's no ones fault but your own if you don't have money ready.

On the other side of things though .. expected to reverse the wrong way down a motorway sliproad does seem a bit bizare. Would like to know how that would have played out otherwise.

crosstownk

Random wrote: »

The T&C of the tags suggest you should have alternative means of payment ready so I guess in that regard it's no ones fault but your own if you don't have money ready.

So what happens if I use the M50? Will I have to pay the €3 instead of the €2....?

Random

crosstownk wrote: »

So what happens if I use the M50? Will I have to pay the €3 instead of the €2....?

I believe they have a special condition for that in that they also record your reg so they can match it to your tag later even if the tag doesn't function.

Seth Brundle

We offer three simple ways to get you tolling on all toll roads in Ireland (not just the M50) and outlined them in the table below.

https://bookings.parkmagic.net/tolltag/#3
:rolleyes:

Redsoxfan

Random wrote: »

On the other side of things though .. expected to reverse the wrong way down a motorway sliproad does seem a bit bizare. Would like to know how that would have played out otherwise.

Indeed.

Mr. Fancypants

Had the same problem on the Eastlink with my eflow tag. Called eflow and complained and was told that there are problems with roads other than the M50. I suggested that they change put a message on their website saying that it doesnt work and was told that was a good idea.....unlikely they will do it though!

L1011

Are those of us with tags from operators that are already proven allowed be smug right now?

crosstownk

MYOB wrote: »

Are those of us with tags from operators that are already proven allowed be smug right now?

At this stage, yes:)

I'll be using the M50 and the M1 tomorrow so I'll see what happens there. Needles to say, I'll be entering the cashier lane on the M1........

philiph

Hi,

In Ireland all tags from all operators must work on all plaza's otherwise you do not get to be a tag provider. This isn't just an undertaking it drive tested and the "pass" rate is 100%. One fail and you get to do it all over again. TollTag.ie passed these tests in the months leading up to barrier free. Our M50 preparedness was tested on an identical road tolling system outside of Ireland since the M50 systems were being built and again the acceptable performance was 100%

The tags we use are from Kapsch and are used by some other providers also.

The way the system works in Ireland is each provider is a 'member' of a national hub and must on a defined schedule, feed that hub the information on tags to that hub. The data is vetted before acceptance and again the pass rate is 100%, one error and the whole feed is rejected. Again, periodically each plaza reads this feed of valid (and invalid) tags


The above is the reason for the time lag betwen tag registration and activation. It is also the reason why you won't see transits on your account (any account) immediately. The billing info is picked up on a cycle and fed to the hub and the whole cycle starts again.

On the specific case above, the tag beeped. This beep is triggered by the road equipment so this means the tag was read . It also means the plaza itself rejected it for some reason. I am happy for the poster to PM me with the tag number or mobile number used to activate it and I can see what the issue is or was. There are many possibilities but one common one for us now is balance too low on Pay As You Toll type tags. We have in the last two days implemented our text warning system which will alert the tag owner if this is the case.

So I guess in summary, while I accept the rationale re "established" tags, the reality is the 100% barrier is a permanent one which we (and all) have to pass all day every day in order to load tags on the network. There is no such thing as varying levels of performance on that hub

Which brings me to the M50:) The M50 is a totally different animal as two systems have to work in tandem. The basic system is both tag and reg plate are read and offset. If there is not a match we get a warning to correct the reg data with the customer. If the tag isn't read at all (or isn't there) the plate is read and the NRA issue a toll demand. on this toll demand (called a Standard Toll Request-STR) is the eflow call centre number. Calling them with the tag number and operator will cause them to query us as to the validity of the tag at that time. If valid the STR is suppressed and the regular tag toll rate is applied to the toll account.

One other thing that has occured in the last week is the classification of vehicles has gone real time electronic and the M50 uses the national vehicle registry in Shannon Co Clare to automatically classify vehicles. As a result some people who have had e.g 2eur rates on their light van have gone to 2.80 etc etc. This is regardless of what your tag operator has you classed as and cannot be 'overridden' by a tag operator

I hope the above helps. In the last few weeks the road payment systems in Ireland have gone through a huge change, probably the biggest ever. tags have moved from handy if you're hammering a mondeo up and down the country to the only way to avoid a rather lengthy and significantly more expensive way of paying to drive over a bridge for hundreds of thousands of drivers.

At tolltag we try our best to keep customers informed. We think its better that way for them and for us, mind you this week (week 1) has seen our support staff pull some serious hours:) but they are friendly types if you are chatting to them

I'm happy to answer any questions I can here, I don't often get the time to check the boards during the day or week but I've kicked the kids outside to experience 'summer'. For the tolltag customer above. PM me I'll get it sorted for you..


/P

p.s I am the CTO of Tolltag.ie

crosstownk

philiph wrote: »

On the specific case above, the tag beeped. This beep is triggered by the road equipment so this means the tag was read . It also means the plaza itself rejected it for some reason. I am happy for the poster to PM me with the tag number or mobile number used to activate it and I can see what the issue is or was.

Thanks for the offer of help - PM sent.

The tag beeped three times at the M4 plaza - which appears to mean that the tag was rejected. It beeps once when passing both the M50 toll area and the M1 toll plaza. Both M1 & M50 worked OK last Saturday. Both M1 tolls appear on my online statement, but neither M50 tolls appear yet - most likely for the reasons you mentioned above.

EDIT : On a side note, obviously there is a battery of sorts in the tag - do you know how long this is expected to last and do I get a warning when it is running low?

TBH, a few more instructions included in the box with the tag (explanation of beeps, battery life for example) would have been useful information. Apart from keeping a mental note of my remaining balance and checking online, is there any other warning (SMS, tag beeps) to alert me to top up?

philiph

crosstownk wrote: »

Thanks for the offer of help - PM sent.

The tag beeped three times at the M4 plaza - which appears to mean that the tag was rejected. It beeps once when passing both the M50 toll area and the M1 toll plaza. Both M1 & M50 worked OK last Saturday. Both M1 tolls appear on my online statement, but neither M50 tolls appear yet - most likely for the reasons you mentioned above.

EDIT : On a side note, obviously there is a battery of sorts in the tag - do you know how long this is expected to last and do I get a warning when it is running low?

TBH, a few more instructions included in the box with the tag (explanation of beeps, battery life for example) would have been useful information. Apart from keeping a mental note of my remaining balance and checking online, is there any other warning (SMS, tag beeps) to alert me to top up?

There is a battery in the device but the technology used is semi active rfid see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID. effectively the tag is only triggered when in range of a beacon and is otherwise pretty much dormant. This leads to a battery life of many years.
The beep codes are 'normally' 1, good read account ok, 2 'low balance' 4 'account suspended/tag not valid on plaza'. these beeps are triggered by the roadside equipment and we came across some inconsistency in it so until we're happy it is consistent we pulled it. We introduced a text based warning which will text the tag owner a low balance warning instead/aswell

Philip

crosstownk

philiph wrote: »

We introduced a text based warning which will text the tag owner a low balance warning instead/aswell

Perfect. That's great to know.

Hopefully you can look into the M4 problem form me.

Thanks a lot.

L1011

philiph wrote: »

. If the tag isn't read at all (or isn't there) the plate is read and the NRA issue a toll demand. on this toll demand (called a Standard Toll Request-STR) is the eflow call centre number. Calling them with the tag number and operator will cause them to query us as to the validity of the tag at that time. If valid the STR is suppressed and the regular tag toll rate is applied to the toll account.

Very informative post, rare on here..., +1 for that.

This is the bit that interests me - I know for a fact my tag (not issued by you) didn't activate one time on the M50 since eFlow came in but my car is brand new, day old that day and I've not even yet got the log book - wonder where the STR has vanished to...

Guy:Incognito

MYOB wrote: »

Very informative post, rare on here...

MEEEE-OWWW

crosstownk

MYOB wrote: »

Very informative post, +1 for that.

I'd have to agree with that, MYOB.

I'd imagine if the car registration is new, eFlow will have to wait for the VRO to update. I'd guess the bill will sit in the system until the reg has an owner attached to it. If you have registered with a tag supplier then I imagine what philiph posted earlier will happen.

crosstownk

Just thought I'd update.

The tag now works on M1, M4 and M50. I don't use the M8 so I can't comment on that.

The only 'anomaly' is that the tag doesn't beep on the eastbound toll on the M4 but the barrier rises and the toll appears on my account.

Many thanks to philiph for all the help he provided via PM.