Wireless broadband

Turbury

Can somebody please explain to me the difference between Wireless broadband and 3G broadband ?

rugbyman

Hello, this is the difference, as far as i know.

Wireless Broadband arrives at your house/office by radio signal. this signal comes by way of a direct link between you and an emitting station in your area.It cannot arrive by accident. you need to get it set up and it involves a radio being fitted to your house. only houses with line of sight to the base can receive the signal.

3G broadband is fed out via the various mobile phone companies bases. Where your phone works, your broadband should be available.


Both are in effect`` wireless`` ,in that they are not attached to a telephone(land line) for their means of transmission.

Another use of the term`` wireless`` is where the signal coming into your house is spread around the house by means of a router. This means you can use your laptop in any room without wires. You can have broadband via your land line and then have it made ``wireless`` in the house. T

There is often confusion in this use of the word " wireless".

watty

The Fixed Wireless Broadband:
May or may not be Line of sight.

• Needs an outdoor aerial/Radio set.
• May have an indoor modem, or modem in outdoor Radio.
• About 5 or 6 Different technologies vary from 2Mbps Symmetrical to Cable BB like 10Mbps down/1.5Mbps
• It's always on. Always connected.
• Low to medium latency depending on Technology.
• Many types good for gaming or VOIP
• Some versions have static or effectively static IP
• Speed quoted regularly achieved off peak, but may slow to 1/2 at peak times.
• User package speed is a portion of the total mast/sector speed.

Mobile Internet

• Not counted as Broadband by EU or OECD
• Nearly Not line of sight. (see note).
• You aren't guaranteed a connection
• Designed for mobile/portable intermittent use, not as fixed dialup replacement
• Speed
• High to very high latency (ping)
• Bad for gaming or VOIP
• always dynamic IP and "3" shares public IP meaning you can be banned/blocked because of what others do.
• Only a small percentage of users get the quoted speed, at peak times speed can be 1/20th or less or you may not connect.
• User "package" does not exist. Speed quoted is raw speed shared among everyone for entire Mast/Sector

There are six types of Mobile connection:

1. Basic GSM: 14.4Kbps (Dialup)
2. Two slot GSM: 28.8Kbps (Old Nokia Communicators like N9100)
3. GPRS (On GSM only): About 50Kbps. But variable speed. Mostly always on. High capacity.
4. EDGE (On GSM only): typically 240Kbps. Technically 1200Kbps is possible. High capacity of users. (Sort of dialup).
5. 3G (Basic UMTS/W-CDMA): About 340Kbps, variable speed, medium capacity of users.
6. HSDPA (on 3G only): 1.8Mbps, 3.6Mbps, 7.2Mbps and 14.4Mbps versions; Low capacity of users (12, 24, 48, 96 users typically per version). Actual user speed depends very strongly on signal quality and number or users and is 70kbps up to the HSDPA speed (typically 3.6Mbps = 3600kbps). Full speed is very rare.

Latency on HSDPA with few users and good signal is 120ms to 180ms. It can easily rise to over 900ms and at 250ms is a worse experience that 860ms Satellite because the Satellite systems prefetch, cache ARP, cache DNS and spoof IP over the link. Latency on the other mobile system is poor too.
GSM/GPRS/EDGE is 900MHz (very good non line of sight) and 1800MHz (Moderate).
3G/HSDPA is 2100MHz and is poor LOS

There are four Mobile Phone operators with Internet:

1. Meteor: GSM, GPRS and EDGE
2. "3": 3G and HSDPA (3.6Mbps) only
3. Vodaphone: GSM, GPRS, 3G and HSDPA (1.8Mbps, 3.6Mbps and 7.2Mbps. The 1.8Mbps sites may be all upgraded by now). No EDGE
4. O2: GSM, GPRS, EDGE, 3G and HSDPA (3.6Mbps).

Others:
The current "Broadband in a box" products don't generally qualify as Broadband by the OECD and EU either. (Ripwave, Clearwire). Latency can be high and speed only 250k to 500k when working. Speed can be 80kbps and latency over 1800ms. They are only partially non-LOS as it is 3.6GHz


Digiweb Mobile:
On trial in North Dublin / Finglas. Different technology, a 4G type, though the limited spectrum of the licence means speed for the mast / sector is "up to" 5.4Mbps. However the latency is low typically under 50ms so it's good for VOIP and gaming. Unlike the Phone Mobile GSM/EDGE/3G/HSDPA it's more like wireless ethernet than instant dialup.

Mobile WiMax:
Similar to Digiweb Mobile. Only on test in Maynooth on 2.3GHz and maybe elsewhere on 3.6GHz. Not available to public. "Pre WiMax" products are not WiMax. (Is a Fish a Pre-Mammal?)

Fixed WiMax is used by some Wireless Broadband, it's no real difference to slightly older systems for the customers.

Fixed Wireless is generally 3.6GHz (poor non-LOS) or 10.5GHz (LOS only). Some products use 2.4GHz or 5.8GHz. These are ISM band "licence free"/"pre licenced" and are subject to interference from Home WiFI, Video Senders, Security systems etc. 2.4GHz is nearly non-LOS and 5.8GHz is LOS.

Conclusion

Avoid Mobile solutions unless you need Mobile, Fixed Wireless is far better.
Only use Ripwave and similar if there is nothing else.

Many wireless, Mobile and "Broadband in a box" products are different technology so you can't say "Wireless Broadband" is BAD or GOOD. It depends on the product, your location, expectations and applications. For a daily email check and occasional browse, even the poorest system may be better and cheaper than dialup.

watty

rugbyman wrote: »

Both are in effect`` wireless`` ,in that they are not attached to a telephone(land line) for their means of transmission.

Another use of the term`` wireless`` is where the signal coming into your house is spread around the house by means of a router. This means you can use your laptop in any room without wires. You can have broadband via your land line and then have it made ``wireless`` in the house. T

There is often confusion in this use of the word " wireless".

Also ANY internet connection (Dialup, GSM/EDGE/3G/HSDPA Mobile, Broadband in a box, Fixed Wireless, Cable, Metro, Fibre, DSL, 2 way Satellite) can be shared to everyone in the house via a suitable router with optional WiFi (or even multiple WiFi "hotspots" for wireless connection.

Back as early as 1993 or 1994 we shared our dialup on the LAN with the "server" automatically connecting and hanging up for email automatically via an email server and also when users opened Browsers on the 386 PCs running TCP/IP via ethernet Coax and Windows For WorkGroups 3.11. WiFi at 2Mbps was added about 1999 or 2000. By then we had migrated from Coax to cat5 and also mostly NT4.0 and some Win98SE for gamers at home. NT4.0 server at home from 1996 to 2007. Never a BSOD.

kazzer

rugbyman wrote: »

Where your phone works, your broadband should be available.

Just to clarify, this is not always the case. If you have a GSM handset, you may not necessarily have 3G coverage in that area.

nohopengn

Well done Watty - great explanation

watty

I'd be in trouble if I couldn't explain it. I design wireless data systems.
(Though I'm no expert on GSM/EDGE/3G/HSDPA)

PogMoThoin

I call for sticky, this is asked a lot. Lot of confusion amongst people.

Turbury

Thanks all – excellent explanations, the reason I ask is because I am trying to set up a system to transmit live cctv images over the internet from a remote location (that has no phone line). I have fixed broadband at my house so sounds like the easiest (and cheapest) option is to get wireless broadband at the transmit side if possible (using an IP camera). Then I could also get 3G if I wanted to view from laptop on the move.

watty

So you need about 200Kbps upload speed for poor quality and 400kbps for better quality and 2Mbps for near TV quality, assuming video codec similar or actually MPEG4. Older MPEG2 needs twice the speed.

Also you want unicast on demand so that it only is using bandwidth when you watch it or you will exceed T&C fair use or Cap/Quota on most domestic packages.

If someone is to watch or it's recorded off site 24/7/365, then you need to talk to the ISP as the amount of data would exceed T&C fair use or Cap/Quota if any sort of decent quality.

I've been involved in projects where a number of live cameras at reasonable quality (400kbps) are used. You can get special arraignment with some ISPs as they are often experiencing more contention on download and your application has almost no download at the camera (the download is all at the viewing end), such maybe 3Mbps down 512k up at 1Mbps/384kbps price since you use no download, or 512k upload 24x7x365 at an agreed price with no cap and little download for 24/7/365 off site recording.

barnicles

Nice explanation watty

NewApproach

watty, in your experience, what type of speeds are required for a good quality signal with the SlingBox?

watty

512k is minimum for good 720 x 576.

Actual TV quality needs 2Mbps to 4Mbps. Statistical Multiplexed MPEG4 on a 30Mbps stream can do AVERAGE of 1.5Mbps as channels can use up to 5Mbps for sudden movement. The problem is that while an average of even 1Mbps can be fairly good, it needs to peak at 4Mbps. So for one channel on Upload mostly for video, you need to encode at Constant Bit Rate to avoid the high peaks. CBR needs 2 to 4 times the speed of the average of Variable Bit Rate for similar or slightly poorer quality.


Quarter VGA/NTSC (320x240) or Quarter PAL resolution (384x288) is fairly good on a 3" screen at 256k.

I've run 400kbps uplink on my BB at Quarter PAL (384x288) and upscalled to full size (15.4" 1600x1200 screen) at destination looks better than 400kbps at full resolution (720x576 scaled to 1600x1200 15.4" LCD) as fast movement doesn't pixilate badly. Blurred is MUCH better than hard edged large pixelated images on all the movement.

A PC with 3rd party SW such as VLC or Unreal Server or free MS Windows Media Encoder 9 and an Analogue TV card with video in can do the same or better than Slingbox. Advantage of Slingbox is that it is all pre-configured.

Turbury

Yes cheers Watty , so for best quality I should really try to get a HSDPA connection on the upload (camera) side - correct?

watty

3G/HSDPA useless for Video Upload. You don't want anything other than better Fixed Wireless, Metro, Cable or DSL for Video Upload.

The Mobile Phone Wireless doesn't even guarantee a connection or more than 70k upload. The HSDPA speeds quoted are for download for entire mast sector, not for one person's upload.

Jonathan

watty wrote: »

3G/HSDPA useless for Video Upload. You don't want anything other than better Fixed Wireless, Metro, Cable or DSL for Video Upload.

The Mobile Phone Wireless doesn't even guarantee a connection or more than 70k upload. The HSDPA speeds quoted are for download for entire mast sector, not for one person's upload.

If you need video upload on the move HSUPA is what you need.

watty

file upload maybe... not video streaming. For "mobile" or "Nomadic" real video streaming you want a van with a dish and RTE, SKY or BBC printed on the side...

HSUPA even is only good for short clips of YouTube quality, not security video or even home movie quality. Anyone got a map of which masts have HSUPA?

Jonathan

I *think* only o2 have HSUPA.