Kefka is back!!

animaX

Anyone seen the new trailer for FF Dissidia?! It features kefka from FFVI. Not sure how the battle system in the game will work, looks a bit chaotic, but could be fun nonetheless

Mark Hamill

http://kefkalaughtoinsanity.ytmnd.com/

noodler

Disturbing. Also overrated FF villian.

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seraphimvc

noodler wrote: »

Disturbing. Also overrated FF villian.

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FF Dissidia is indeed disturbing.Kefka is an overrated villian??elaborate please

Retr0gamer

He doesn't have a big sword and his reasons for being evil aren't just because he is a mammies boy but are well developed and fleshed out.

Raze_them_all

totally unbelieveable...a slightly psychotic guy that wants to take over the world...compared to oh i dont know a group of teenagers who cant remember their past but are still all around eachother years later:rolleyes:

noodler

He is a 2D character with no obvious motivation for his craziness (Don't you watch CSI and the like Retro? Nutters usually have something in their past which makes them so).

He also has a crappy 16bit sound effect laugh that must scare alot of other people but sounds to me like something from a dastardly and mutley cartoon.

He poisoned a town under seige-not an altogether original strategy considering you were at war with them.

SPOILERSSSSSZZZZZZ


I think Seph's motivations were more understandable than some do. Working for a corporation for years under the pretext that you were part of the solution when it actually turns out you are part of the problem.

He burned an entire town, unleashed WEAPONS and killed you know who.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

He is a 2D character with no obvious motivation for his craziness (Don't you watch CSI and the like Retro? Nutters usually have something in their past which makes them so).

He didn't need a motivation. He was created as a magitek experiment and they ****ed up because they hadn't perfected it so his mind was ****ed up from day 1. I don't watch CSI anymore but I do like my crime novels especially serial killer novels. Sociopthic and psychopathic behaviour is thought to be caused by genetic traits rather than something in their past. Something traumatic in the past may be a trigger that makes people with these traits exhibit destructive tendencies but these can take a long time to manifest since it takes a while before the person to get braver and braver with what they can get away with. A few days locking themselves in a room usually won't make them burn an entire town down and decide to take over the world and have a complete breakdown.

noodler wrote: »

He also has a crappy 16bit sound effect laugh that must scare alot of other people but sounds to me like something from a dastardly and mutley cartoon.

It might sound crap because of the low bitrate and memory limitations but it added to his character, back then it was a pretty big deal especially with so few frames of animation to work with.

noodler wrote: »

He poisoned a town under seige-not an altogether original strategy considering you were at war with them.

Pretty nasty considering he was told not to do it and it was so utterly cowardly as well. No sense of honour and I'm sure it's not by the rules laid down by the geneva convention.

noodler wrote: »

I think Seph's motivations were more understandable than some do. Working for a corporation for years under the pretext that you were part of the solution when it actually turns out you are part of the problem.

He went nuts when he found out he was created in a lab and in the space of a few days decided. Kefka found out when he was much younger and shrugged his shoulders because he was a grade A nutcase already.

noodler wrote: »

He burned an entire town, unleashed WEAPONS and killed you know who.

Kefka

noodler wrote: »

destroyed and enslaved a whole world

. Sephiroth failed miserably at the same thing, killed a flower girl and burnt a village while winning the Midgar emo monologue prize for 8 consecutive years running.

Sephiroth was an over the top unstoppable super soldier. Yawn, never seen that before.

Kefka was very much human and for that he is more believeable. He is a total coward and an evil bully which to me makes him more identifiable. I've met plenty of evil cowards and bullies in my life but no moany spectral super soldiers. I think it makes him far more hateful because of his very human qualities.

Think it's time for a Kefka vs. mammys boy debate thread Will set on up tomorrow, hopefully.

animaX

Wow, I sense a big Kefka vs. Seph battle here! Only one way to settle it. Let them fight each other in Dissidia! (precisely what Square-Enix wants us to do! We're falling for their marketing ploy!)

noodler

When did you first play through 6 Retro?

I guess we'll never agree. In 6 I only really felt any empathy for Terra (because of Terra) and for Cyan (for his family).

Retr0gamer

I played a little of it on emulators around 2000 but couldn't finish it, never liked playing these games on a PC. I played it properly when the FFVI rerelease on the PS1 came out, so between FFIX and FFX.

noodler

Cool just making sure we played the same crappy version (so Im told anyway). Real shame about the load times.

Retr0gamer

Definitely, saving Shadow was an absolute pain thanks to those load times. Don't know what square enix was thinking because the PS1 has 2 MB of Ram and the rom is less than 5MB, the PS1 also has practically all the snes hardware in it so I don't know why so much loading was necessary.

seraphimvc

now,go play FF7 again and see what ya think....

my experience:
i have SNES but not the game.the neighbour has FF6,i saw his playing some of the parts,he is a dude 7 years older than me.a gamer he is highly recommend the game to me but for my own good,he said,play this when you learn more words :pac:that was 1996 as i can remember

1997.the spiky head guy holding a huge sword is the coolest thing i've ever seen!!i was 10 back then.i remember i finished the game in a day on december of 1998,pc-ported version.aeris's death crushed me so deep that i fall into the indefinite deep hole of JRPG.

shortly after that (within 6months and 1 year,FF6 suddenly came in my mind),i rush to my SNES and take FF6 and begin my journey get into more mind blowing moments.

i was helplessly hooked to FF6 at that time.consider it is 2D and everything is lower standard than FF7 (technically) ,i am highly impressed by it and couldnt stop wanting more.Needless to say i have replayed again FF7 so many times before that (ps-ported).

10-13 years old was the mad time i have basically finished FF4~FF8 and tonnes of RPG.and ya know what,i go back to replay FF6 again(my second time),finish all the side quests and fully understood everything of the story.2000 is the year i did that.while i have no more tears to give away from most parts i have gone through before,they still touched me deeply.and found out something totally stunned me off for a long time,the silence story between shadow and his daughter - i have no idea what kind of writer behind the game.whoever he is,a modern shakespeare in a video game.

i have said it so many times and i will say it again :FF6 is the only and biggest RPG i have ever played.never will a RPG close to its standard - FF9 is probably the closest one,of course it is!it is the tribute based on FF6.

i love stories.Many stories in FF6 took away my teenage's tears ruthlessly.oh god*terra's theme*the weakness of FF6 is way too much characters,some of them could be have been more potentials - unevitable since you are making a very very huge story.it's about war,love,family,friendship,opera,comedy,nostalgia old school stuffs,modern tech,secrets,dungeons - it is a whole package that i couldnt ask for more ,it is just a damn video game by some small japanese company.

Replay FF7 make me sick.the stories are really bad if you play it when you're grown up.[insert Retro points].Sephiroth used to be so cool but now all i remember is the scene of when he found out Jenova and get mad in the basement library/lab - nonsense.the plots in FF7 are so weak that they need to use so many fancy language words to cover up,pull some weapons/ancients/identity crisis/terrorist/electric company crap together - it succeeded.Only in 1997.

from a view of gameplay,lets face it,all games from Squaresoft(yes,not Square Enix) are high quality stuffs - FF6 and 7 are equally good in gameplay.what draws the line is that,FF6 is a IBM PC that last forever,FF7 is just a hype like iMac which only lasts few years and faded.

like i said,go play FF7 again and see what has changed in your memory.

:Dand no,Kefka is not an overrated villian.he is not even rated.internet back in 90s sucks sugar balls,so is the fan boys now

p/s:for the 2D/sh*te sound effect,well then that's personal preference.your lost to not like those old times masterpiece 2D effects - something most 3D games couldnt achieve on today standard.

noodler

Maybe I was a little more mature when I played FF7 but I wasn't attracted to it by a guy with a big sword.

I had to be forced to play the game-looked weird and slow to me at first-weird plain whitish game case and too complex (numbers everywhere).

I remember stuff like spending 10+ hours in Midgar and thinking it was huge and then coming across the world map and discovering it was only a fraction of the map. I remember the flashback in Kalm that would have huge resonance during Disc 2. I remember the Gold Saucer-a game within a game for all intents and purposes. I also remember the moral ambiguity of Shinra/The Turks and how they blurred the lines of good and evil showing that not all 'villains' in videogames have to be portrayed in definitive black & white terms.

I remember characters with more dialogue and complexities than FF6 could hope too contend with (I fully admit there was probably a simple lack of space in terms of dialogue they could attribute to each character), but thats the other thing. Too many half-arsed characters in FF6 whose stories are either extremely vague or have characters that can fall under simple stereotypes (Bar Locke, Cyan and Terra- I could bore you all with my reasons for this e.g. Edgar can be summed up as a perv IMO).

Anyway, there both quality games and its still a comparison in greatness more the most part. If I were reviewing FF6 a few years ago I'm sure I wopuld comfortably been able to give it a 90+.

PS: I am near the end of Disc 2 in like my 6th Playthrough of FF7-stopped in like April or something). Still excellent but like any story based game it HAS to lose something over time.

Retr0gamer

I used to be of the mind set of FFVII being the best game ever as well but when I went back to playing it for the 3rd time well the rose tinted glasses were off. This was after FF6, Suikoden 2, Vagrant Story, FF Tactics, Grandia etc. I'd played far superior games but hadn't realised it due to nostalgia.

I saw that battle system was really simplistic with no depth. Characters were very much stereotypes. The storyline was inventive at times but it had some dreadful moments of bat shit craziness that didn't sit well with the serious tone the game was going for. I do think a bad translation is partly to blame for this but definitely no all of it.

With FFVI I admit due to the technical limitations there's a bit of imagination that has to be used. It's a lot more minimalist in it's grandeur than the anime over the topness of FFVII and I think this works to it's advantage, it's a more down to earth human story. The characters are also more identifiable in FFVI. Most of them are just normal humans. FFVII on the other hand has genetically modified supersoldiers, half-human half ancients, Mr T with a gun for a hand, Super human rack lady, a talking dog and Lord of the emos. The emotional dilemmas seem to be way over the top while FFVI is a bit more realistic in this regard. There's also 18 characters in FFVI and while the vast majority of them are throwaway characters with very little story if a story at all there's just as many well fleshed out characters as there are in FFVII which had it's share of throw away characters. I actually really liked how for the main characters you got a glimpse of what used to be like and why they joined the returners and then a glimpse of how they dealt with the world of ruin. And Shadow and Relm was genius.

Even with the technical limitations FFVI achieves so much. The ghost train sequence genuinely surprised me. A silly little sequence on a ghost train was transformed at the end into one of the most touching parts of the game. And then when you first take control of celes in the world of ruin, the utter feeling of despair and the fact that you can decide the fate of one character in the game if you don't do well enough. I don't think any scene in FFVII comes close to the emotion in this one.

I'll admit that FFVI has it's fair share of bat**** crazy moments as well but I feel they sit better in FFVI an provide a welcome comic relief from the bleakness of the game. They kind of stand out in FFVII. I'll also admit that FFVI is the simpler storyline but for me it was the better told story.

As for the Turks. I liked them in Midgar but they quickly became the comic relief villian like Ultros and Gilgamesh in FFV. Saying they showed that not all villians are truly bad is a bit too much praise. Gesthal (sp?) was a much better villian in this regard. Go play Suikoden 2 to see how it should be done, no character in Suikoden is turly bad. Actually if more people had played it wouldn't be Sephiroth vs. Kefka anymore. Prince Luca Blight is head and shoulders above them. A totally believeable, downright evil and hateful swine with one hell of a tragic past. That really is the pinnacle of videogame badguys, up there with S.H.O.D.A.N.

Anyway, ype we are talking about two 90+ games, it's a case of nitpicking to see which one has the edge.

noodler

In 6-you had an alien (ok human-esper hybrid) you had a magically enhanced solider and you had a talking squid. I'd argue there would have to be a draw in the siliness stakes. Saying that Red XIII's serene oriental personality made up for the fact he was a talking pooch. Red, Cid, Barret, Cloud, Aeris (especially-her stuff with her two mothers scene at train station is touching), Zach, Vincent all had excellent depth to their characters in terms of back stories. I'll agree Cath Sith and Yuffie's were a bit lame-still think its more than 6's though-but again I'll admit that 6 didn't have the same ammunition to work with.

Regarding the translsation, I agree that sometimes stuff doesn't make perfect sense but then in 6 you have the same problem of parts of dialogue seeming completely out of sync with the emotional tone of the moment. I'd need a Japanese friend who speaks perfect English to show me FF7's flaws for me to truly appreciate them-I just can't use it as a stick to beat the game because everyone keeps saying the translation was poor. Ignorance, bliss etc

Im not entirely sure I know what you mean about the Celes thing re: deciding her faith. Do you mean managing to let cid live or die? Upon my last replay of 7 I just want to reiterate the train station scene and how much more emotional resonance that had now then when I was in me mid teens (The Zack revelation is superb but wasn't exactly subtle).

Anyway, I'll qualify all that by saying I quite enjoy this level of in-depth discussion. Makes unemployment feel a little more bearable.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

Regarding the translsation, I agree that sometimes stuff doesn't make perfect sense but then in 6 you have the same problem of parts of dialogue seeming completely out of sync with the emotional tone of the moment. I'd need a Japanese friend who speaks perfect English to show me FF7's flaws for me to truly appreciate them-I just can't use it as a stick to beat the game because everyone keeps saying the translation was poor. Ignorance, bliss etc

6 definitely has flaws in it's translation. Ted Woolsey who did the trnaslation had a horrible habit of lessening the emotional impact of a scene by adding in goofy dialogue or a bad pun that was totally out of place. For FFVII I'm not comparing the japanese dialogue with the english one, I haven't a clue about what is in the japanese dialogue, but even still it's very obvious that the translation is an absolute joke. The story is quite muddy in place since it just isn't explained very well due to the bad translation and some of the dialogue in the emotional moments goes some way to spoiling it due to how cringey and bad it is.

noodler wrote: »

Im not entirely sure I know what you mean about the Celes thing re: deciding her faith. Do you mean managing to let cid live or die? Upon my last replay of 7 I just want to reiterate the train station scene and how much more emotional resonance that had now then when I was in me mid teens (The Zack revelation is superb but wasn't exactly subtle).

Deciding cids fate and the attempted suicide is what I was on about (which the english translators tried to gloss over again). I did like the train scene but stil think this train scene holds more emotion to me.

noodler wrote: »

Anyway, I'll qualify all that by saying I quite enjoy this level of in-depth discussion. Makes unemployment feel a little more bearable.

It's much more preferable to the fanboys shouting that I'm wrong about sephiroth

I think the argument here may come down to the types of RPG's we prefer. I much prefer my games to be very character driven with the explanation for events being explainable instead of just being explained away by a cop out like 'it's magic!' or 'space aliens/ancient civilisation did it we can't explain it!'. My favourite RPG's would be FFVI, FFX, Vagrant Story, FF Tactics, Grandia, Panzer Dragoon Saga. All of them are very much character driven and not driven by the spectacle of the storyline, although thats not to say there isn't any spectacle.

noodler

I see, I did note that Celes kind of fell off the cliff this time around alright (Does she do this if you manage to let Cid live?-Seemed a tall order to me). I played the game the second time with a Game Faqs Walkthrough by a guy call djibril. It was excellent-he digresses so much that the entire thing is about twice as long as it should be. Tells you what sprites were censored for the US version etc. He does mention Celes' attemptes suicide as well as what Edgar says to Relm (The non sleazy version as opossed to "that would be criminal"). Although I don't think he made the Shadow and Relm connection.

I just read the article's FF7 review there. I never noticed another scene at the Train Station (The apparent suicide) I always assumed those teens somehow died as a result of the plate falling. Which is another thing I overlooked, its not just Seph-killing a huge proportion of your own population to blame on terrorists was a fairly feckless act as well.

When I sort some cash out I think Ill shell out on a PSP to play Tactics anyway.

Retr0gamer

noodler wrote: »

I see, I did note that Celes kind of fell off the cliff this time around alright (Does she do this if you manage to let Cid live?-Seemed a tall order to me).

Even if you save cid she tries to commit suicide but all the english translations gloss over this and never mention it despite it being a bit obvious what she is trying to do. In the original translation apparently the desolation, loneliness and despair just get to her and she tries to top herself.

noodler wrote: »

I just read the article's FF7 review there. I never noticed another scene at the Train Station (The apparent suicide) I always assumed those teens somehow died as a result of the plate falling. Which is another thing I overlooked, its not just Seph-killing a huge proportion of your own population to blame on terrorists was a fairly feckless act as well.

You more than likely have seen it, it just isn't obvious because of the bad translation. The two of them say a few lines do a dance and then just fall over

One thing I thought FFVII was very brave in doing was that you played a terorist at the start and killed a lot of innocent people. Barret mentions it later on but I think they could have made a whole lot more out of this.

I'd love to play Tactics again on the PSP. The Playstation versions translation is horrendous, even worse than FFVIII. I would if I didn't remember just how tough the game was and how long it took to beat. It's probably the hardest game I ever finished.

seraphimvc

i actually like Red Xill's story lol note i read red Xill not 13,sounds more like a human huh?

i really remember not much details in the story of ff6,years ago - that's why i keep mentioning shadow ,terra,and ghost train's story,splendid work that will forever stuck me brain i guess.

i have jap version of all FF except 12.the difference between english and jap version is,there is nothing sounds wrong in the conversation.i am not that good in jap too,complicated sentense will screw me up - but i found the remake/new version of FF in english ,like FF4advance ,FFT on psp etc translation gone worse.could be my memory thingy but i will defo say i prefer FFT in ps1 :Dadrenaline moment to kick Elmdor's a** and stealing his equipment at the same time,which only happens in our US version.

dont take it too serious about FF7 suicide scene lol tho i say sephiroth is emo etc but lets face it,he will always be legendary badass who holding the extremely long penissamurai sword with that smirk on his face,plus a burning background lol if ff6 is a apple tree ,ff7 is like a ready made apple pie

from a gamer point of view,i love ff6 to bits;from a business man/general person,i think ff7 did the best,it hit right into people in the group of any gender,age,profession etc.any type of person would find what they want in this game - genius isn't it?a perfect balanced product ever made.no kid or a working class player would spend that much time on ff6,this is a fast food century.

while i still eat fast food sometimes,i always order something special,some limited period burger etc - if you wanna sell a ****,i will still buy it if it is a blinking ****.nowadays i dont expect much on story ,CG,character design do sell off but the story is still the core of RPG.i love stories,i am still a kid!:DFF12 pissed me off hard time

and ye,the terrorism in ff7,i notice that too.the story we are in is actually not causing any 'normal' people dead,super-human-no-more-human army,machines etc.but if ya look carefully in the news,exploding mission avalanche did earlier,lots of people dropping down from the shinra station to the ground level.how cloud meets aeris on the flower bed lol they mask everything to suit player's taste.cool terrorist who burn the government without hurting anyone,why not?

Retr0gamer

I think you need to play the PS1 version of FFT again to realise just how dreadful the translation is

Also, if I remember correctly, Avalanche did kill a lot of innocent people with their bombs. It's mentioned after the section 7 explosion and barret says it too when he is repenting on the Highwind.