Abortion whats your stance?

Hagar

I'm a fruitarian.*


*May not be 100% true.

philologos

Laura Appleby wrote: »

If you are serious about LIFE then that extends to all living things on this planet you cant be pro-LIFE one minute and harp on and on about the miracle of creation and how it is sacred and then chow down on a hamburger

Yes, you can. Human life is considerably different to animal life, and animals are not afforded the same rights as humans nor will they ever be. We should treat them humanely, but at the same time humanity reserves a select number for consumption by the human race.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

Why? Why on earth would we have to tolerate that? I hope Irish law stays the exact same now and forever. As I said before, there are many things I will tolerate, but killing the voiceless whose opinions never count is not what I am going to tolerate at the voting booth or in vocal opinion.

jakkass you are in opinion as you are in name if you're not going to tolerate other peoples opinions

philologos

Laura Appleby wrote: »

jakkass you are in opinion as you are in name if you're not going to tolerate other peoples opinions

I tolerate many things, but I do not tolerate the killing of another human being whether unborn or outside of the womb. Why should I ever do that?

Laura Appleby

CDfm wrote: »

Hilarious, fair balls for fighting your corner

Laura - this is a serious thread - can you troll somewhere else please

dude seriously. i have very strong opinions on this matter. opinions that need to be heard. I think that defending human life as if its much much more sacred than any other life in this planet is baloney dude. its tied up in religion.
i bet none of you pro lifers are secular

Hagar

carlybabe1 wrote: »

Have you? and not enhanced photos that anyone can do on thier pcs, real seen with your own two eyes, not propaganda

To be absolutely fair no photo-shoping is needed. If you are honest you will say the same. Whether the images are babies as I claim or just tissue as you claim they are frightening. You have to admit they look like dead children.

philologos

Many of them are secular on this thread. I have admitted I follow the Abrahamic God several times on this thread, I however have managed to argue for the most part without referring to it as a religious issue.

carlybabe1

Hagar wrote: »

That cuts both ways, just because you think it's right doesn't make it so.

Ergo the difference between pro-life and pro choice, I never said it was right, its not right for me at this time in my life. Its also not right for me to tell somebody else "you know what, I dont care about you, your life, your physical health, your personal health, or your cicumstances, Im humanitarian and I say you have to have that baby" Smacks of hypocrisy to me

Laura Appleby

the whole point is that the system in ireland is UNFAIR if you permit abortions then people who want them can have them and those who don't won't SIMPLE! its not fair that those of us who want to just go out there and ABORT can't do so because of religious tyranny

philologos

The system in Ireland is a compromise between the rights of the child and the rights of the mother. No other system takes into account the rights of the child at all really in the Northern Hemisphere except for in the Arab world. Personally I think the West is the one promoting barbarism in this case.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

The system in Ireland is a compromise between the rights of the child and the rights of the mother. No other system takes into account the rights of the child at all really in the Northern Hemisphere.

but yet you think me taking into account the rights of other animals is ludicrous and you want to be free to just go out there and eat them. how would you feel if i ate your babies?

CDfm

CDfm wrote: »

Hilarious, fair balls for fighting your corner- this is a message on your public profile

Laura - this is a serious thread - can you troll somewhere else please

see above

Hagar

Laura Appleby wrote: »

the whole point is that the system in ireland is UNFAIR if you permit abortions then people who want them can have them and those who don't won't SIMPLE! its not fair that those of us who want to just go out there and ABORT can't do so because of religious tyranny

It's fair to the child.

philologos

Laura Appleby wrote: »

but yet you think me taking into account the rights of other animals is ludicrous and you want to be free to just go out there and eat them. how would you feel if i ate your babies?

I've been through that already.

carlybabe1

Zulu wrote: »

That's rich coming from the one poster who has consistently refused to provide ANY proof or answer ANY direct questions.

I'm still waiting for answers to the questions I posed.

Stop trolling please.

WHAT QUESTION????? And I posted a link to an embryology site,
How bout you answer my question

Laura Appleby

CDfm wrote: »

see above

its just such Baloney you know he's there banging on about lumps of tissue as if they are alive and yet is happy to eat other species CHILDREN! rights of the child is such crap, there is no CHILD until its actually birthed (consensually). I feel very passionately about species and LIFE but there is plenty all life already living and being abused so why are we wasting are time worrying about embryoes that PEOPLE DONT EVEN WANT!!!! its so busy body trying to rule peoples lives. Just let people abort we are not idiots who need puritans to make our moral decisions for us.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

I've been through that already.

it doesnt mean you're right you think that a cow is less alive than a clump of cells floating around a womb??? i dont think you can just leave the arguement at that.

evolvemycock

I think, as a victim of crime recently, pretty serious one at that too, i dont really want to go into it but as that victim i would have really appreciated it if the mother of that haneous man had aborted him years ago.

Which brings me to my main point;

all crime, ALL crime has been committed by un aborted people. All because all you liberal people think that everyone has the right to life. Which is clearly not true because we all eat eggs for breakfast when everyone knows eggs are aborted chickens or ducks.

Can you spell hypocritically?

Most criminals are from big families, big ugly poor families. Now i know im going to appear as "uber conservative" here but bare with me;;;

if we could abort just two kids from every family, wouldnt the world be a better place for everyone? Fact. If we could make mandatory abortions available for girls (and boys with interdimensional sex parts) and everyone on the dole, are you telling me we wouldnt see less knackers? Double Fact.

and jakkass, please stop comparing gorrillas to the handicapped.

ps

those pictures look like delicious magical jelly beans of aborted love
xxx

philologos

It may interest you, heres a map on the legality of abortion in the world today. As you can see there is basically a North / South divide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbortionLawsMap.png

Edit: Sorry when did I compare gorillas to handicapped? I wouldn't say such a disgraceful thing.

Laura Appleby - I've been through it already, my opinion doesn't change in a few minutes.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

It may interest you, heres a map on the legality of abortion in the world today. As you can see there is basically a North / South divide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AbortionLawsMap.png

Edit: Sorry when did I compare gorillas to handicapped? I wouldn't say such a disgraceful thing.

Laura Appleby - I've been through it already, my opinion doesn't change in a few minutes.

well neither does mine so chow down on that

philologos

Laura Appleby wrote: »

well neither does mine so chow down on that

Please stop trolling. I really don't want to get this thread locked it's going well.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

Please stop trolling. I really don't want to get this thread locked it's going well.

If i was harping on and on and on and on and on about childs lifes and abrahamic gods and babies in buckets yada yada that would be fine but because i am a radical free thinker I am not allowed express my opinion. fine you got me I'm a animal lover vegetarian etc. but i am also vehemently pro-CHOICE. you can't keep people in a cage.

Laura Appleby

Laura Appleby wrote: »

well neither does mine so chow down on that

I also think that the north south divide indicated that the right to choose when to give birth is a general indicator of progression and a progressive society

Hagar

No. It shows how affluence affects people.

philologos

Laura Appleby wrote: »

If i was harping on and on and on and on and on about childs lifes and abrahamic gods and babies in buckets yada yada that would be fine but because i am a radical free thinker I am not allowed express my opinion. fine you got me I'm a animal lover vegetarian etc. but i am also vehemently pro-CHOICE. you can't keep people in a cage.

I've answered about my faith honestly when asked. Otherwise I have focused on the topic of abortion. There's no need to attack the poster, just argue the points. You are allowed to express your opinion certainly, but I'd personally prefer it if you did it with a bit of respect for those on the other receiving end.

You can't keep people in a cage, but you can throw infants in a bin (as h as been referred to by others in the thread)? Now which do you think is worse. Personally I encourage compromise between the rights of child and right of mother. The State of Ireland also vindicates the right of the child.

philologos

Laura Appleby wrote: »

I also think that the north south divide indicated that the right to choose when to give birth is a general indicator of progression and a progressive society

Normally in issues such as capital punishment it would, but in this case it shows how the West is dabbling in barbarism.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

I've answered about my faith honestly when asked. Otherwise I have focused on the topic of abortion. There's no need to attack the poster, just argue the points. You are allowed to express your opinion certainly, but I'd personally prefer it if you did it with a bit of respect for those on the other receiving end.

You can't keep people in a cage, but you can throw infants in a bin (as h as been referred to by others in the thread)? Now which do you think is worse. Personally I encourage compromise between the rights of child and right of mother. The State of Ireland also vindicates the right of the child.

I meant no offense. i felt like i was being dismissed. and calling me a troll is a personal attack in my opinion. sincere apologies if i hurt your feelings, it was not intentional

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

Normally in issues such as capital punishment it would, but in this case it shows how the West is dabbling in barbarism.

Its not barbarism its barbaric to FORCE women to have children they dont want

evolvemycock

I would also like to add that the you never, NEVER see anyone cool or with it, going on about pro life. They are always, always dried up old prunes

Pro life just isnt sexy.

its a post modern era babe and you romantic modernists are left to bite our dust...

Heres one for you, if you could go back in time and show Mr and Mrs Hitler 'Schindlers List' what do you think they'd say?

"Wow what a great film" sure they might say that but they also might say this

"Holy ****, isnt there some way we could have this baby killed? We're obviously going to be bad parents. Please, please government, allow us the opportunity to not make this grave mistake, millions of peoples lives are at risk- not the 1000 schindler saved but the rest. For the love of god!!!!"

How would you feel then? Pretty miserable i'd imagine

philologos

Laura Appleby: Did anyone force them to fall pregnant or have sex outside of a situation where they could deal with the scenario properly. By giving the child up through adoption or taking it themselves?

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

Laura Appleby: Did anyone force them to fall pregnant or have sex outside of a situation where they could deal with the scenario properly. By giving the child up through adoption or taking it themselves?

in some cases unfortunately YES

Laura Appleby

evolvemycock wrote: »

I would also like to add that the you never, NEVER see anyone cool or with it, going on about pro life. They are always, always dried up old prunes

Pro life just isnt sexy.

its a post modern era babe and you romantic modernists are left to bite our dust...

Heres one for you, if you could go back in time and show Mr and Mrs Hitler 'Schindlers List' what do you think they'd say?

"Wow what a great film" sure they might say that but they also might say this

"Holy ****, isnt there some way we could have this baby killed? We're obviously going to be bad parents. Please, please government, allow us the opportunity to not make this grave mistake, millions of peoples lives are at risk- not the 1000 schindler saved but the rest. For the love of god!!!!"

How would you feel then? Pretty miserable i'd imagine

I get your point. its a paradox.

philologos

Fair enough, I still however agree with promoting adoption in cases of rape. However in the majority of abortion scenarios no that isn't the case.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

Fair enough, I still however agree with promoting adoption in cases of rape. However in the majority of abortion scenarios no that isn't the case.

People make mistakes it doesnt mean they should have to pay for them the rest of their lives

evolvemycock

No offence but i dont think there is anything unfortunate about it.

LMFAO kidding!!!

Look, you gotta accept its there, then reduce abortions frequency through education. There is no truth to the matter, but you can find an answer that provides an enhanced quality of life. Like people in the old days used leeches to cure disease and religion- they passified the masses until they could come up with a proper answer for them

philologos

Accept what is there? Abortions aren't in Ireland yet except where the mothers life is in danger. Rightly so.

Laura, if people make mistakes, should a child pay for it with their life? I find that abhorrent, and repulsive. With adoption there is a lot more peace of mind than with abortion that's for sure.

evolvemycock

Jakkass wrote: »

Fair enough, I still however agree with promoting adoption in cases of rape. However in the majority of abortion scenarios no that isn't the case.

Adoption in cases of rape? are you f*ckin serious? how barbaric is that- you got raped, here enjoy being pregnant for 9-10 months, then we'll give your rape baby to a family who will bring that child up to be not a rapist like its father and pray-pray till their ears bleed that its nurture over nature...please got god, let it be education over your nature

Hagar

Laura Appleby wrote: »

People make mistakes it doesnt mean they should have to pay for them the rest of their lives

Not if they have someone else, someone totally at their mercy, to pay for it on their behalf.

Laura Appleby

Jakkass wrote: »

Accept what is there? Abortions aren't in Ireland yet except where the mothers life is in danger. Rightly so.

Laura, if people make mistakes, should a child pay for it with their life? I find that abhorrent, and repulsive. With adoption there is a lot more peace of mind than with abortion that's for sure.

for you maybe but what about the mother. having a little medical procedure a month in sounds a hell of a lot less traumatic to me then having to be preggers for 9 months and then giving birth which is HORRIFICLY PAINFUL and then seeing your baby and having to give it away. not to mention the medical expense involved during the months of the pregnancy.

philologos

Killing for convenience isn't any more moral even if it alleviates trauma as you say. I'm doubtful about that. No doubt many would-be mothers anguish after their decision to abort thinking they've made a horrific mistake. I feel for them the most, I feel for the ones who know they have done something wrong and are willing to accept it.

evolvemycock

Jakkass wrote: »

Killing for convenience isn't any more moral even if it alleviates trauma as you say. I'm doubtful about that.

I dont think its fair of you to judge that its killing, its eliminating. If a tapeworm were to bore into your ass because you ate the wrong thing, does it not have a right to live there? in your world- yes, yes it does.

So if you wish to advocate pro life i suggest you live by example and let a tapeworm bore into your rectum.

philologos

Civil liberties for who may I ask? I don't see it to be a liberty to deny a child the right to live. Surely that is the opposite of liberty.

If you'd mind cutting out the trolling it'd be much appreciated.

Laura Appleby

evolvemycock wrote: »

I dont think its fair of you to judge that its killing, its eliminating. If a tapeworm were to bore into your ass because you ate the wrong thing, does it not have a right to live there? in your world- yes, yes it does.

So if you wish to advocate pro life i suggest you live by example and let a tapeworm bore into your rectum.

you know what you might be crazy but you definitely have a point. A tape worm invading you is exactly like rape-sperm invading a woman and i think it is justified to remove both foreign bodies

philologos

Those rules probably won't be ever applied in Ireland. That also isn't pro-choice at all it forces mothers to get abortions similar to what is done for China if you are expecting a child with deformities. Again barbaric to the extreme.

Zulu

carlybabe1 wrote: »

We are pro choice which is very different, although I know that most of you are having trouble with that concept

No, no, we understand the concept perfectly well.

It's just that we don't selfishly limit the "choice" to the mother.
We also acknowledge the choice of the child to live.

To the anti-abortion lobby, the choice to live outweighs the choice to not suffer the inconvenience of a pregnancy.

Come to think of it, we're about as pro "choice" as could be. But seeing as you, the "abortion is acceptable if it suits you" lobby, reject the childs choice to live, you aren't really pro-choice. It's more like "pro my choice, and death to anyone else".

Not a very liberal attitude really.

kizzyr

evolvemycock wrote: »

Sorry i Im pretty sure that you said mentally handicapped was like being a gorrilla.


I've been following this thread for weeks now, patiently, waiting for you all to draw enough string so i could hang you with it.

In the bible, the most popular book on amazon, it doesnt mention anywhere about not having or allowing abortions. That goes for all three bibles, jewish, catholic and muslimic

I also would like to add, that allowing abortions doesnt hurt anyone. but not allowing them hurts a lot more.

Giving birth is not only really embarassing for a woman but also (allegedly) really painfull.

Its like squeezing a box of cornflakes out a vagina. A very expensive box at that too. it costs 20000€uros a year to keep one baby alive, now divide that by a poor persons dole and you get a negative.- which is just bad economics.

Basically what im getting at is this; in this time of economic uncertainty and ever rising crime figures, Abortions are not only good for the economy, they also reduce crime dramatically, and above all its good for ireland.

I think what she said was the a gorialla (other primates) have the same mental capacity as a 6 year old child, a properly functioning 6 year old child. However we still (although only in the Netherlands and that is for HIV research as experimentation on primates is actually rare in the Western world now) use these animals, that are the same as a 6 year old child, for testing. Therefore they are functioning at a higher level than a severely mentally handicapped 6 year old human child.

eveie

first off..................babies dont ruin peoples lives, people ruin their own lives!
not all animals will kill the weakest of their litter (fact) i breed horses and dogs, not too long ago my dog had a litter of 7 puppies one of which was about a 5th of the size of the others an extremly weak now the bitch would bring this pup off by itself and feed it seperate to the other pups, the puppy is now a healthy 4 months old.
another point made......how natural it was for animals to kill and eat their young, i think this post was comparing humans to animals so therefore were you trying to say that we as humans should be allowed kill a born child because its natural???
do you consider a child 2 days beofre birth to be worthy of a right to life????
whats the difference if the child was 3 months old(as in 3 months after conception) at 3 months the unborn child looks like a baby, no one can deny that, it can feel pain, that is not just the termination of a pregnancy that is murder.
abortion is illegal in this country because this country gives rights to the unborn, this country protects the unborn.
if i was raped tomorrow and the doctor said ok eveie were're going to remove your stomach becuase that'l rid you of any pain or hurt you feel, id be reporting him to the gards, an abortion will NOT cure the hurt of being raped, a womens body has already been violated.
i know quite a few women who have been raped 2 of which became pregant and had their children, this was in the 70's and 80's so things were alot ifferent and more difficult then now, they both gave their children up for adoption, and have since tract them down. their children are honured that these women gave them life even though they know the circumstances of the pregnancy

Zulu

kizzyr please don't feed the troll

eveie

elvovemycock
your going to quash all my arguments on the basis of our economic situation, do you know anything about economics????obviously you dont. sure to hell with it let kill all o.a.p's because their taking our money, lets kill all people on welfare, that is what your saying, sure it'l be good for our economy.

Zulu

carlybabe1 wrote: »

WHAT QUESTION????? And I posted a link to an embryology site,

These questions:
Question 1 (second line)
Question 1 again. Question 2. (How would it limit her "horizons" if she offered it up for adoption?)
Question 3
Question 4 ...and for the record NO evidence was provided, just a like to an embryology page.
Question 4 again
You know, the one's you haven't answered.

How bout you answer my question

I've answered all you questions. If I omitted one, I apologise.

Please point it out and I'll answer it now.