[Match Thread] Cardiff v Leinster - 6.30pm

zAbbo

That's extremely poor from Girv

Jackz

fools.

Scootay

Happy days. Long left? I'm guessing about 10 minutes.

RuggieBear

god i hate that rule.

16-16

Inquitus

16-16

zAbbo

Excited last 5, as both teams attempt to lose

Stev_o

Healy "injured" he seemed fine after he got a headgear on so they sub him while their scrum is in tatters and bring in a openside flanker hmmm :rolleyes:

Inquitus

A draw is a fitting result, this game doesn't deserve a winner, Leinster have been crap, and the Blues should have put the game away and didn't.

Inquitus

Simple Knock on, scrum in close to DG range for Bloo's

Inquitus

Pen Leinster draw

Jackz

The dunce they kept it in play for a reason, no?

Scootay

Is that full time? 16 16?

zAbbo

A points more than we deserved.

Necewa showing good and bad aspects to his game, I thought we looked a bit disjointed with him at full back.

Not sure he's up to speed on tactics or rules either.

Stev_o

Sh1te game tbh first half was promising then Cardiff lost the balls and hadnt a clue what to do, Leinster simply couldnt do anything with the ball and had to rely on Necewa to win the game for them.

RuggieBear

i'll take that.

tbh it was two points more than deserved.

very few teams are going to take as much as that out of the arms park.

lol

juvenal

Final score??

zAbbo

juvenal wrote: »

Final score??

16-16

Full of mistakes

juvenal

Forgot with the time difference and no stream - sounds like I didn't miss much.:(

Scootay

By the sounds of it we were as well off not seeing it. Happy with 2 points though.

Thanks for the updates lads.

toomevara

Fair play Leinster, play that ugly and draw...take it and run. Like the look of Nacewa, very promising player...

bleg

**** match. cardiff lacked a killer instinct and should have won by far more. leinster were poor and often porous in defence. they were also poor when on the attack

[Jackass]

Ah it wasn't as bad a game as people are making out. Yes there were a lot of errors, and yes it was highly frustrating to watch as a Leinster fan, but there was some good tempo to the game and both positives and negatives to take from it.

Bad things are that the front row weren't at the races. Scrum was very weak and got wheeled and dominated. I expected more from them to be honest, despite the fact that it's a very powerful Cardiff scrum in the first place, but we had no platform from this and were left very much on the backfoot as a result for long spells of the game.

Add to this the fact that we are already missing Wright & Van Der Linde - Jackman, McCormack & Healy all went off injured - potentialy leaving the only front row players left in the squad as Fogarty, Blaney & Knoop.

Another bad point was our retention of the ball. The support was very poor at the breakdown and countless times players got isolated and turned over. Contrast this to Cardiff who went through several phases at a time while protecting the ball. Annoyingly, 90% of the time illegally as the referee genuinely doesn't seem to know about the "off the feet" rule at ruck time and if you pick any 10 rucks at random from the match where Cardiff were in possesion you'll find about 8 of those will consist of 2+ cardiff players off their feet using their body to protect the ball.

Our backrow was outplayed in that regard and we should have been smarter when using the ball and have support runners all the time to clear out.

The final bad point was with the backs. I can't help but get the feeling that moves are over compliated to try and exploit the explosiveness of this backline. The moves always seem to break down in the first or second phase of execution because they're are trying to do too much with the ball regardless of if the space is there.

I think there needs to be general guidelines set down and better support play from the backs and let improvisation be a major player in the backline. They have the talent in buckets to do this, and if we don't know what the players are going to do then the opposition wont be able to have too much of an insight either. The only planned move that reaped dividends was the Garryowne from 10 that was to be followed up by Kearney to win posetion. A couple of times this gained us 30 or 40+ yards and resulted in our try also. However we didn't utilise our tactical game well enough and never played a terretory game (and missed a couple of important touches) and tryed to stick to a possesion game that in all honesty wasn't working against a very rushed up Cardiff defence and the support play wasn't there to retain it.

The position conundrum needs to be solved also. I don't think Sexton was good at 10 and he should be dropped (as much as it pains me to say it). He didn't show any control on the game and lacked impact from the 10 channel. He's still learning but I don't think it should knock his confidence too much, but he doesn't have a birth right to that 10 jersey and if he isn't performing he should take time to work in training.

I know it's only 1 game, but going on sqaud available, talent and form, both carrying over from last season, pre-season, churchill cup and tour downunder and tonight, I think our most out of form players are Sexton & Horgan. So I think our backline should be
9. Whitaker
10. Nacewa
11. Kearney
12. Contepomi
13. O'Driscoll
14. Fitzgerald
15. Dempsey

But there were also some big positives to take from the game.

The lineout performed very well, and there was no sign of big Mal's age as he was all over the park and showed great hands and awarness to pop the pass early for the try and put in some massive work around the pitch. Toner was superb in the lineout. Absolutely first class, he took every ball under pressure that came his way and stole a couple as well, most notabily when Leinster were on their own 5 yard line, he really took the pressure off. His work around the pitch and at the fringes was very good also.

And we can't forget as well, this was the first game of the season, and we had lots of players missing - Rocky, CJ Van DL, Wright, Cullen, D'Arcy - and this was close to a full strength Cardiff outfit and you could see they were really hungry in this fixture.

But we showed a lot of grit and determanation, especially with our much weakend pack, we fought hard, we recovered well and for long periods when we were on the ropes we soaked it up but never went down. There's a battle hardness there from last year, and it's on occasions like this that you really learn your lessons. You often learn a lot more from defeat and from tight games than you ever do from comfrotable wins, and I think we learnt one tonight and we're learning how to be in these close games, not to play well and still have the ability to come away with a win.

Fair enough we didn't have the execution to do that tonight. But hopefully we will now the next time this type of game comes around.

Minor criticisim for Cheika, when Leinster got their nose in front, I think the game was crying out for O'Brien in place of Jowitt...just offered fresh legs, great ball carrier and a work horse, it was time to really tighten up posession, change the game plan and pin Cardiff back and hold the ball when we get it.

We didn't do that and tried an expansive move while in possesion that cost us 3 points and ultimately an unlikely win.

Even after that, I think we had ourselves in prime terretory to close the game out with a drop goal. I think Fitzgerald & Kearney just lacked a bit of experience there not to be patient and set it up right. Whitaker was AWOL off the ball at that point and leaders like Cullen weren't around to just pick the ball and drive and pick and drive and pick and drive. All very tight and shoulder in, go to ground and present. This gives Whitaker time to get back, it gains us a couple of yards, centres the ball infield and gives Contepomi plenty of time to get into position and steady himself.

All in all though, a very tough opener and a bitter sweet result. On one hand we did well to come away with anything, on the other you know it's putting away games like these that really count at the end of the season, and you would just like to see us at that level now where we're doing that.

Jilm

Nice work [Jackass].

You're not an out-of-work / wannabe sports journalist by any chance?

Inquitus

The pack were Brutal from 1-8, they only had parity at the lineout, when your pack plays that badly the backs are always going to be feeding off crap ball. The tight 5 were marmalised, the backrow completely outplayed...mainly illegally....but they should have adapted.

Sexton was flakey, did not assert any presence or control. It's hard to judge anyone outside him as all the possession was poor.

Cardiff gifted the 2 points, yes Leinsters defense was dogged, but they should have been put away. Cardiff were lucky to meet a Leinster without CJ, Elsom, Cullen etc. But it does point to a pack short on strength in depth, and should any of the key forwards get injured it could prove costly further down the line.

In summary a great result for Leinster, Cardiff will be scratching their heads. Hard to take much out of this though, a full strength Leinster pack will be solid and provide a steady supply of the sort of quality ball the backs require.

Sangre

Hard to judge the backs as the forwards were just terrible.

toomevara

[Jackass] wrote: »

Ah it wasn't as bad a game as people are making out.

Agree completely, a classic season opener from both teams...lots of commitment and endeavour, but the polish and smoothness you can only get from competitive game-time lacking...I would expect, on that showing, both Cardiff and Leinster to do very well in the ML this year...

Cardiff will obviously be filthy with themselves for leaving it after them (what? 5 or 6 clear try scoring ops butchered), but I'd expect them to come on song against the Red Hand next week.

Think Leinster will have taken alot from that game and there were enough good individual performances to impress, even if, as a unit they didn't quite click..onwards and upwards.

EdgarAllenPoo

One of Leinster's main problems was committing too many players to opposition lineouts. Having less (Leinster) players spread across the pitch gave the Blues way too much space to run.

phog

GDM wrote: »

One of Leinster's main problems was committing too many players to opposition lineouts. Having less (Leinster) players spread across the pitch gave the Blues way too much space to run.

Have to say that was my view about the change in the lineout law, there is a danger in having more players than the opposition, esp if you don't win the lineout.

On the game itself, it was a cracker for the neutral with some poor handling errors on both side but I think Leinster got two pens that they didn't deserve and Jennings and possibly Kearney should have seen yellow, btw I thought Kearney was poor on the wing, esp in defence, much prefer to see at fb.

MOK was probably the best Leinster player on the field but they need to work on the restarts.

MOTM for me was Martyn Williams.

Player I was most disappointed in - Shane Horgan, whom I have great regard for.

BTW - great to see Chris Czekaj return to rugby after such a horrible injury.

zAbbo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DCdwDSvzJ4

JWAD

Jennings will be cited for stamping. Silly thing to do.

Stev_o

Jennings will probably be made a example the IRB are come down extremely hard now on any dangerous play especially at ruck time.

Men of the Match for me were the Cardiff Back row they all played stormers

Sundy

Inquitus wrote: »

The pack were Brutal from 1-8, they only had parity at the lineout,

What game were you watching Malcolm O'Kelly was imense, game a full 80 minute performance, making bit tackles, covering back, turn overs and gave a try scoring pass, skipping a prop to Nacewa. I dont know why people keep writing him off

Inquitus

Sundy wrote: »

What game were you watching Malcolm O'Kelly was imense, game a full 80 minute performance, making bit tackles, covering back, turn overs and gave a try scoring pass, skipping a prop to Nacewa. I dont know why people keep writing him off

Aye Mal was the only one who stood up to be fair, the other 7 were brutal.

John_C

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye Mal was the only one who stood up to be fair, the other 7 were brutal.

Jackman and Toner weren't too bad either.

dukeofmarmalaid

i'm surprised they kept jowitt as long as they did, it's time to ship him back to samoa, has done nothing for two years. Better off giving homegrown talent a run out, especially since whats available in O'Brien is better than Jowitt imo

JWAD

dukeofmarmalaid wrote: »

i'm surprised they kept jowitt as long as they did, it's time to ship him back to samoa, has done nothing for two years. Better off giving homegrown talent a run out, especially since whats available in O'Brien is better than Jowitt imo

He's from NZ. As Irish as Mick McCarthy.
Is actually Irish qualified through residency and I would say, a slightly better lineout jumper than Sean O'Brien, who is only starting. Unless they're extremely exceptional, starting the first game of the season with an inexperienced rookie against a team with a backrow like Cardiff's hence Jowitt stepping for now.

And to the journo out there who wrote up the game review in the Trib, Nacewa is also a Kiwi (not a Fijian) who happens to be Fijian qualified also (and Whitaker spelt with one 't').

Tim Robbins

I thought the Ref was very lenient on Cardiff at the breakdown, they appeared to be sealing off to me.

Inquitus

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I thought the Ref was very lenient on Cardiff at the breakdown, they appeared to be sealing off to me.

Sealing off was rampant all weekend, new rules being reffed brutally.

EdgarAllenPoo

Either refs need another crash course in the ELVS regarding the breakdown or we'll see some seriously one sided reffing in the future. Cardiff got away with going off their feet way too much.

Heroditas

GDM wrote: »

Either refs need another crash course in the ELVS regarding the breakdown or we'll see some seriously one sided reffing in the future. Cardiff got away with going off their feet way too much.

There is no mention whatsoever of the breakdown in the ELVs in the northern hemisphere.
The refs should always have been enforcing the law but teams have been bending the laws for years and getting away with murder.
Refs need to be reminded to read through the basic laws of the game and start enforcing them. If they had been enforcing them properly, there would have been no need for any of the ridiculous law changes to be piloted in the souther hemisphere.

JWAD

Heroditas wrote: »

There is no mention whatsoever of the breakdown in the ELVs in the northern hemisphere.
The refs should always have been enforcing the law but teams have been bending the laws for years and getting away with murder

Heroditas wrote: »

Refs need to be reminded to read through the basic laws of the game and start enforcing them. If they had been enforcing them properly, there would have been no need for any of the ridiculous law changes to be piloted in the souther hemisphere.

While you're perfectly correct in saying that the breakdown is not affected by the set of 13 ELVs being implemented globally over the beginning of the current NH ('08/09) and next SH ('09) seasons, what you've posted above however seems a tad contradictory.

Top quote: Players' fault.
Lower quote: Ref's fault

Right now its way too early for anyone to be judging the set of 13 in place here anyway.

zAbbo

Heroditas wrote: »

If they had been enforcing them properly, there would have been no need for any of the ridiculous law changes to be piloted in the souther hemisphere.

I thought the law changes were brought in to counter the dropping attendances/interest/viewing figures from down under.

Although, I have to say that so far I've much preferred the old laws, with the exception of the passback into the 22 rule.

JWAD

zAbbo wrote: »

I thought the law changes were brought in to counter the dropping attendances/interest/viewing figures from down under.

Although, I have to say that so far I've much preferred the old laws, with the exception of the passback into the 22 rule.

The overall standard of rugby last 6N and RWC wasn't exactly hot. The game has been getting more and more cynical.

Tim Robbins

zAbbo wrote: »

I thought the law changes were brought in to counter the dropping attendances/interest/viewing figures from down under.

Although, I have to say that so far I've much preferred the old laws, with the exception of the passback into the 22 rule.

The 5 meter scrum rule also is good. I can't believe the Ref let so much sealing off go on Saturday, I wonder what his take on it was.

Stev_o

Its strange to think that the golden rule a year ago was to not kick the ball needlessly away and this was the rule followed by every team now all of a sudden its changed to if you have the ball kick it away cause clearly thats how your going to make progress:rolleyes:

JWAD

Stev_o wrote: »

Its strange to think that the golden rule a year ago was to not kick the ball needlessly away and this was the rule followed by every team now all of a sudden its changed to if you have the ball kick it away cause clearly thats how your going to make progress:rolleyes:

Not the case at all. A team with the likes of Shane Williams, Rob Kearney or Lote Tuquiri in the back three would hopefully use these players in actually counter attacking instead of booting it up and down. They don't need to under the non-ELVs. Under the ELVs they can either eff around with it AFL-style or use it. You'll see in time that they'll opt to use it.

I'd like to know which games/teams you're thinking of when you say that teams didn't kick the ball away all the time. I would say it was quite the opposite actually.

Stev_o

JWAD wrote: »

Not the case at all. A team with the likes of Shane Williams, Rob Kearney or Lote Tuquiri in the back three would hopefully use these players in actually counter attacking instead of booting it up and down. They don't need to under the non-ELVs. Under the ELVs they can either eff around with it AFL-style or use it. You'll see in time that they'll opt to use it.

I'd like to know which games/teams you're thinking of when you say that teams didn't kick the ball away all the time. I would say it was quite the opposite actually.

Exclude the RWC (since that's were this whole obsession with up and unders galore and aimless kicking started) Most teams would run the ball and only kick when they needed to and when they did kick it wasnt aimless it was into touch not a kick infield. Look at the 6N and Tri Nations last year hardly any aimless kicking as everyone was afraid of being cut apart by the back three who were willing to run the ball.

I mean the idea is that you score while your in possession of the ball not the other way around. Watching some of the matches today is like going back to the 80's its extremely annoying to watch.

I guess the arguement though is that every match now is so vital that the back 3 cant risk running the ball from deep and having ago for fear of being turned over etc

So far this year there's only been a handful of players willing to run the ball from deep as you pointed out Tuquiri is one Muliania is another Williams aswell but your still getting the majority of players going for the safe option rather then taking the risk.

Imo its going to take a side with a EXTREMELY quick backrow to change this then coaches should be saying yeah have a go knowing the backrow will be there to support them.

JWAD

Stev_o wrote: »

Exclude the RWC (since that's were this whole obsession with up and unders galore and aimless kicking started) Most teams would run the ball and only kick when they needed to and when they did kick it wasnt aimless it was into touch not a kick infield. Look at the 6N and Tri Nations last year hardly any aimless kicking as everyone was afraid of being cut apart by the back three who were willing to run the ball

Kicking for territory infield did not start in the last RWC. I see it in all levels of the game. Club, Magners League, ERC, international. Teams hoofing it back downfield to earn a lineout given to them by making the other team kick for touch. Annoying as hell and very frustrating to watch.

Stev_o wrote: »

So far this year there's only been a handful of players willing to run the ball from deep as you pointed out Tuquiri is one Muliania is another Williams aswell but your still getting the majority of players going for the safe option rather then taking the risk.

Thats not the fault of the laws of the game. You'll see. The coaches will eventually show some spine and tell their teams to stop kicking it away like they have been doing for the last decade or so.