BER Assessor Insurance

ruskin

Hi,
I am in the process of registering as a BER assessor. My question is, is it completely necessary to buy professional insurance on top of this? I know in theory insurance is advised, but I ask all self-employed BER assessors here if it really is practicable, since the BER certification is already somewhat of a subjective document. If insurance is needed, where do I get it, and what can I expect to pay? thanks

Mellor

With all due respect,
If you are questioning the need for insurance, then I'd seriously reconsider becoming a BER assessor.
With that attitude, if I was a potential client, I wouldn't consider hiring you for a second.

Villain

What kind of Insurance would a BER accessor need?

Jimbo

Professional Indemnity insurance.
Some insurance companies do BER assesor specific insurance now.

No6

There was also a requirement for Public Liability for the tenders for the current pilot scheme so don't be too suprised if this is a requirement or reccomended for doing existing buildings. PI insurance covers a number of things and anyone opperating without it is very very foolish. It should also be fairly reasonable if you are just doing BER assesments, i've gotten one or two emails from brokers and it think the cost was around 300 for PI. Shop around.

topcatcbr

You need PI insurance for sure but it is also a wise thing to get some PL and employers/Office Insurance as alot of Clients will require evedince of this and it costs around €600- €800 for Insurance package. There are a couple of companies offering special BER package.

Buck Turgidson

Evening all, nice place you have here.

With all due respect I think you are being a bit harsh on the OP.
I too would like to know why PI insurance cover is advisable for a BER assessor, and what claims are covered ?

I may well be "very, very foolish" (it wouldn't be the first time) but I know the insurance companies have no problem putting "special packages" together, especially if there is very little chance of a claim:)

smashey

Buck Turgidson wrote: »

Evening all, nice place you have here.

With all due respect I think you are being a bit harsh on the OP.
I too would like to know why PI insurance cover is advisable for a BER assessor, and what claims are covered ?

Harsh?

We take things like that seriously around here.

sydthebeat

Buck Turgidson wrote: »

Evening all, nice place you have here.

With all due respect I think you are being a bit harsh on the OP.
I too would like to know why PI insurance cover is advisable for a BER assessor, and what claims are covered ?

I may well be "very, very foolish" (it wouldn't be the first time) but I know the insurance companies have no problem putting "special packages" together, especially if there is very little chance of a claim:)

i can think of two situations

1. you carry out an assessment and make a input or calculation error, produce the cert, house is sold and new owner questions cert and error is discovered. You may be sued by either vendor or purcaser depending on what the error was.....

2. you are given incorrect information when doing an assessment, but you dont keep proper records or paper trail back-up, and on assessment the BER is deemed to be incorrect, situation as described in 1 above may arise.

Therefore insurance is very very advisable........ its not a legal requirement (yet)... but anyone practising on a professional basis should have it. As muffler said in the second post, i wouldnt hire anyone who doesnt have the relevant insurance behind them...

Buck Turgidson

Harsh?

We take things like that seriously around here.

Smashey,
I didn’t mean to imply you guys were bullying the OP, just being a little, well judgmental? ;-) so no offence intended.

Syd,
I take your’ examples as being two ways a BER Assessor could screw-up an assessment, but my point is would PI insurance be relevant in such cases.

As far as I know PI insurance assumes a high degree of competence and professionalism on the part of the person insured, so I’m pretty sure the case of the missing documentation would not be covered.

I am not making a case against having PI insurance. I am just (like the OP) asking what does it cover, what am I paying for?


As far as I know PI insurance assumes a high degree of competence and professionalism on the part of the person insured, so I’m pretty sure

muffler

Buck Turgidson, please use the default black text if you intend posting again.

topcatcbr

Buck Turgidson wrote: »

Smashey,
I didn’t mean to imply you guys were bullying the OP, just being a little, well judgmental? ;-) so no offence intended.

Syd,
I take your’ examples as being two ways a BER Assessor could screw-up an assessment, but my point is would PI insurance be relevant in such cases.

As far as I know PI insurance assumes a high degree of competence and professionalism on the part of the person insured, so I’m pretty sure the case of the missing documentation would not be covered.

I am not making a case against having PI insurance. I am just (like the OP) asking what does it cover, what am I paying for?

I would of thought that screw ups are exactly what you are covered for

No6

topcatcbr wrote: »

I would of thought that screw ups are exactly what you are covered for

If you have got PI and someone threatens to sue you for negligence, your PI company will look at the action and normally will defend you. In the case of BER assessors particuralry with new build if you the assessor are negligent ie don't measure anything correctly, don't bother comfirming what if any insulation/heating..etc etc is installed then you personally could be liable for a claim, if you have insurance it covers you for this if not you are on your own. If you are not negligent and can prove you have done everything correctly but perhaps were given false information (the most likely case) your PI company will defend you and try to ensure the liability is pointed in the right direction, claims are best avoided like the plague so if you like sleepless nights dont get PI!! just because you cant see why or where someone will sue you from dosen't mean that they wouln't try!!!

Buck Turgidson

Muffler, I thought I had used the default colour text in my reply, I apologise if I didn't, it's probably down to my only having posted on here two times. So thanks for fixing it for me (what colour was it btw? u could maybe drop me a PM to avoid messing up the thread) and please call me Buck, we are all friend here:)

No6 / topcatcbr, I hear what you guys are saying, but I have yet to hear from an insurance provider a clear outline of what BER Assessor PI Insurance covers. I have seen flyers with waffle and "complete peace of mind" promises, but that is about it so far.

If there is an insurance company that will cover you for incompetence, then sign me up.

I do feel that BER Assessors will be despised by the public and as such would be prime targets for any kind of claim that could be thought of, but in my experience the insurance companies ain't no guardian angels, and the Assessor better look out for himself.

No6

Buck if some dodgy developer decides its your fault his ratings are worse than he wanted he could conciveably try to sue you. With no PI in place what do you do? You would have to foot the legal bills to defend yourself. Some people are very happy lying through their teeth usually the most unlikely ones, I had one case in my career where a client threaten to sue the practice I was in over extras on a building contract, the client denied agreeing to them and they were nuns!!! So if you dont have PI you are looking for trouble.

muffler

No6 wrote: »

the client denied agreeing to them and they were nuns!!!

Id say you were nun too happy about that

muffler

Im not into the whole BER stuff but is it not compulsory to have PI cover?

topcatcbr

It is not compulsary for SEI but just try and win a contract without it. I suspect it will be part of any new Rep association rules.

No6

Just shows the power of forgiveness if your into that sort of thing!!!:D
Insurance is not mandatory but is advised. If you have it you woulnt need it if you don't have it watch out for the nuns!!!:D

motherfunker

From what I have heard, when all these legal actions start flooding in, that is when the cowboys who were not qualified to become assessors in the first place will get exposed. When a client is locked in a legal conflict with his assessor for what ever reason, all the clients legal team has to do is investigate the assessors background, and if they find you were not qualified to take the assessor course, that your rating is not worth the paper it is printed on nor is any of your previous clients ratings(who will all take you to court to get their money back), then my friends, you are screwed, no PI insurance will cover you for that.
Be warned you money grabbing fcukers, your day in court will come.

BostonB

I think most of them won't tbh. Pity.

muffler

motherfunker wrote: »

Be warned you money grabbing fcukers, your day in court will come.

First of all who exactly is that comment directed at? Are you referring to the people who post in this forum.

Secondly we can do without the expletives.

Infraction given.

jonnyj

Hello all,

I got a quote recently for PI insurance for BER certs for New Dwellings and it was €450 per year. Can you give me a names of companys that have put together these specific BER PI packages, or where to find them.

You do indeed need PI, for your own peace of mind if anything else.

motherfunker

muffler wrote: »

First of all who exactly is that comment directed at? Are you referring to the people who post in this forum.


.

I was talking about all the people who took these BER courses but were not qualified or entitled to do them.

No6

motherfunker wrote: »

I was talking about all the people who took these BER courses but were not qualified or entitled to do them.

I think perhaps you should direct your ire at the training providers, they would have trained my dog, it's not my dogs fault, he's a good dog really:D Seriously though a some trainers appeared to market the whole thing as a new career for people with no vetting of previous qualifications at all. I these gloomy times you can't blame people for looking for alternatives!!

dennistuam

does anyone know contacts of PI companys, dont want to know about the plus or minus to geting it

archtech

dennistuam wrote: »

does anyone know contacts of PI companys, dont want to know about the plus or minus to geting it

talk to your insurance broker, s/he should be able to sort you out.

if you're a member of a professional body, (RIAI/Engineers Ireland/CIAT etc) talk to them..... most have PI schemes set up.

mrgaa1

Heres a further question - as the cert means nothing other than compliance with a legal requirement to have such a cert - why would anyone sue? The cert for a new house, existing house or a rental property does not mean any savings in tax or higher tax payments (at present). So the cert just means that under law you are compliant in that the building has a cert. So why would anyone sue? Any new houses from now on will be built with more care and attention and a prelim cert can be generated so unless major changes are done between planning and final build then the prelim cert will more or less be right.
Also - when does a new house become an existing dwelling? For example - a house built in 2007 that has not been sold will be 2 years old in 2009 - is it new or existing?

topcatcbr

It is a new house untill it is sold or rented. then it is existing. AFAIK

sydthebeat

mrgaa1 wrote: »

Heres a further question - as the cert means nothing other than compliance with a legal requirement to have such a cert - why would anyone sue? The cert for a new house, existing house or a rental property does not mean any savings in tax or higher tax payments (at present). So the cert just means that under law you are compliant in that the building has a cert. So why would anyone sue? Any new houses from now on will be built with more care and attention and a prelim cert can be generated so unless major changes are done between planning and final build then the prelim cert will more or less be right.
Also - when does a new house become an existing dwelling? For example - a house built in 2007 that has not been sold will be 2 years old in 2009 - is it new or existing?

mrgaa1...
the cert is based on the principle that it empowers a prospective purchaser / renter to base part of their decision to buy / rent on energy efficiency. Thats who the cert is aimed at and designed for... NOT the seller / landlord!!!

Therefore is you do an assessment and publish an A rate cert of a house that turns out to be actually a C rate on challange, then YOU could possibly be sued by the person that bought/rented based on your original cert... its simple.

If you bought an A rated fridge tomorrow and found your electricity bills went up significantly, and on investigation it was found that the fridge was incorrectly rated... wouldnt you be pee'ed off....
Now change that €500 for fridge to €250,000 for house and see how pee'ed off youd be...

mrgaa1

syd - i understand what you are saying but you may get a cert at A3, B1 etc... but decide to leave every appliance on, open all windows and spend more monies on heating bills. I don't Joe public fully understands the concept of a rating. You are rating a building not how it is used. So until a carbon tax is applied and the owner / renter understands the issue then the issuing of a cert only means compliance with a legal requirement - the cert does not ensure energy savings. An old house from the 1950's may use less electric and the fuel bills may be smaller than a modern house - all dependent on the occupant. This can happen.