BER Assessor Insurance

sydthebeat

mrgaa1 wrote: »

syd - i understand what you are saying but you may get a cert at A3, B1 etc... but decide to leave every appliance on, open all windows and spend more monies on heating bills. I don't Joe public fully understands the concept of a rating. You are rating a building not how it is used. So until a carbon tax is applied and the owner / renter understands the issue then the issuing of a cert only means compliance with a legal requirement - the cert does not ensure energy savings. An old house from the 1950's may use less electric and the fuel bills may be smaller than a modern house - all dependent on the occupant. This can happen.

mrgaa1... the BER cert is a document used to compare like with like.. .Its not a report specific to the use of a house... its a comparison document.

Therefore if i was thinking of buying a dwelling in an estate and two were available.... identical in type orientation etc but one was A rated and the other C rated (maybe because vendor installed a condensing boiler and solar panels etc)... then i would choose the A rated over the C rated...

how i eventually use the dwelling doesnt matter....
its still cheaper to be energy inefficient in an A rated as compared to a C rated....

No6

Getting back (sort of) to the OP has anyone seen the minimum levels of insurance cover being required by SEI in the New Code of Practice??

Professional Indemnity, 1,300,000

Public Liability 6,500,00

Employers Liability 13,000,000

These levels are excessive, I currently have 650,000 PI which is perfectly adequate for signing off on most projects (Public Contracts excluded) and Public Liability at 6,500,000 is totally mad!!

Chimpster

No6 wrote: »

Getting back (sort of) to the OP has anyone seen the minimum levels of insurance cover being required by SEI in the New Code of Practice??

Professional Indemnity, 1,300,000

Public Liability 6,500,00

Employers Liability 13,000,000

These levels are excessive, I currently have 650,000 PI which is perfectly adequate for signing off on most projects (Public Contracts excluded) and Public Liability at 6,500,000 is totally mad!!

We are covered currently by 1.3 million on the PI, but the recommendation of 6.5 million on Public seems excessive.

By the way SEI are only recommending this, they should have insisted on it if you ask me.

RKQ

I agree it seems excessive. Why so high?
If the BER rating was incorrect then could a lost of 1,300,000 be suffered by the client? Would it cost 1,300,000 to correct?

topcatcbr

I bought a package insurance.

It was €1,000,000 PI, €6,500,000 PL, and €13,000,000 Employers

Origonally i asked for less but it was as cheep to go with above.

Coincidence, Maybee. But I'm too sceptical to believe that.

Keith186

topcatcbr wrote: »

I bought a package insurance.

It was €1,000,000 PI, €6,500,000 PL, and €13,000,000 Employers

Origonally i asked for less but it was as cheep to go with above.

Coincidence, Maybee. But I'm too sceptical to believe that.

It's very competitive in the insurance market at the moment so yes that cover would have been quite cheap. Will probably cost you more next year the way things are going though.

OP you should definitely get the PI insurance if you are serious about doing this as a full time job, think of it as some sort of job security as a claim could destroy your business. For the money it costs presently it's definitely worth it.

You can pick up an office package to cheap enough with €6.5m PL as part of it. Prices will vary, just use a broker.

mrgaa1

you'll find that its a EU directive that is forcing this size of insurance cover - its whats required when tendering for public EU frameworked projects regardless of size

dahayeser

I was speaking to a broker today and he said that when you take out your insurance you will have to commit to keeping it for 10 years (paying a premium each year) even if you cease trading/assessing in the mean time.

Presumably this is to cover any certs that you have that are still active after you have ceased trading.

Can any oneconfirm if this is the case?

Also what should I expect to pay for a €1,000,000 PI and €6,500,000 PL insurance package?

Thanks,
Sean

topcatcbr

dahayeser wrote: »

I was speaking to a broker today and he said that when you take out your insurance you will have to commit to keeping it for 10 years (paying a premium each year) even if you cease trading/assessing in the mean time.

Presumably this is to cover any certs that you have that are still active after you have ceased trading.

Can any oneconfirm if this is the case?

Also what should I expect to pay for a €1,000,000 PI and €6,500,000 PL insurance package?

Thanks,
Sean

SEI have advised that you keep cover for 10 years. It would be advisable anyway.

The cost of cover will depend on many thing including other relevant qualifications and experience. Mine cost around €650.
You should get cover for €1,300,000 PI as this is what SEI recomend and this being the case i suspect this will be the amount for future government contracts.

I cant see there being much difference in price as it is very unlikly anyone could claim anything close to this and the insurance companies would know this.

dahayeser

Thanks topcatcbr.

I can see how it is advisable alright. However it is a serious commitment to have to maintain that premium for 10 years if you were to cease trading as an assessor after a year or two. Given the current climate and the amount of assessors trained it is possible that it may turn out not be a viable business.

Would the premium decrease if you were to cease trading. Obviously the public liability could go but would the PI premium reduce?

Also is there a danger that if there are a lot of claims against BER assessors that the premiums could rise significently over the coming years. This is a scenario I could well envisage given the caliber of some of the people who have been trained.

No6

Will there be any more goverment contracts? I got the impression off Paula Rice in Athlone that the energy savers scheme next year might consist of a range of options for the householder with no assessor involvement (or cost) are we all possibly getting a high level of insurance for no real reason?? I suppose if you assessed a very large estate for a developer and made a complete mess of it and the results ment the development lost value you could get sued for a hefty enough ammount but 1.3m is a very big mistake!! oh no thats just the economy stupid!!

BERarchtech

Hi Folks. Ive been reading a lot of posts here and they are very helpful indeed!

I'm an arch tech and I've qualified as a BER Assessor. I'm considering registering but I'm not sure if its worth it after all when you take account of the fees involved and the possible return.

The way I see it it costs 1000 +vat to register, about 400-700 for insurances and I've already paid 1800 in course fees.

From what I can see the average fee for a BER Cert is about 350 meaning it would require 10 of more certs before it paid for itself by which time a year could have passed then you need more insurance and registration fees etc.

I'm just wondering if any of you have been in the same situation and decided to register. is it worth it? I feel 350 is a bit cheap considering the time involved. I know some of this has already been dealt with on other posts but I'd appreciate some advise on becoming a registered assessor. are there any pot holes that I should be aware of and might not have considered yet? is there even much work to be obtained etc??

Thanks in advance!

sydthebeat

a major pot hole i would see is not being able to provide the service for a client.

in our office we design, apply fo rplanning, and carry out site inspections. The way i see it, as BERs are now an integral part of the design and certification process, it would be foolsh of us not to provide it.

Both my employer and myself have done the course, approx €3000, im registered (+ €1000) but we have Pi insurance generally anyway....
to date i havent published any certs!!

but i am able to use the software when designing to calculate solar gains etc, im able to use the software to generate specifications and show different constructions in comparison to energy demand.

Also, when Part L 2007 kicks in full time, certification will be impossible without a DEAP assessment, so in these cases we will do the BERs in every instance.

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

Will there be any more goverment contracts? I got the impression off Paula Rice in Athlone that the energy savers scheme next year might consist of a range of options for the householder with no assessor involvement (or cost) are we all possibly getting a high level of insurance for no real reason?? I suppose if you assessed a very large estate for a developer and made a complete mess of it and the results ment the development lost value you could get sued for a hefty enough ammount but 1.3m is a very big mistake!! oh no thats just the economy stupid!!

Im just guessing but i think that the nature of public service being what it is you will find that there might be a cry of thats not my job when it comes to doing them or i want more money if i have to this as well. Therefore an easy way out for them is to tender the contracts out.

topcatcbr

BERarchtech wrote: »

Hi Folks. Ive been reading a lot of posts here and they are very helpful indeed!

I'm an arch tech and I've qualified as a BER Assessor. I'm considering registering but I'm not sure if its worth it after all when you take account of the fees involved and the possible return.

The way I see it it costs 1000 +vat to register, about 400-700 for insurances and I've already paid 1800 in course fees.

From what I can see the average fee for a BER Cert is about 350 meaning it would require 10 of more certs before it paid for itself by which time a year could have passed then you need more insurance and registration fees etc.

I'm just wondering if any of you have been in the same situation and decided to register. is it worth it? I feel 350 is a bit cheap considering the time involved. I know some of this has already been dealt with on other posts but I'd appreciate some advise on becoming a registered assessor. are there any pot holes that I should be aware of and might not have considered yet? is there even much work to be obtained etc??

Thanks in advance!

Think hard before you commit because if you add on some advertising. eg Golden pages. Newspaper listings. Mail shots. Etc. You would not be long spending closer to €10,000 within the year.
I have done over 50 and have not broken even yet.

I also feel that €350 is cheep but have a look at what some of the others are charging and you will find it to be on the high end Ill send you a Pm as an example.

No6

It might be a good ides to watch SEI's monthly figure's, when last I heard there was about 700 registered assessors and only around 2000 published certs or about 3 each @ 300 !! and Topcatcbr has done 50 of them so its not even three each!!!:eek: I'd say it will be a few years before most of us break even

topcatcbr

No6 wrote: »

It might be a good ides to watch SEI's monthly figure's, when last I heard there was about 700 registered assessors and only around 2000 published certs or about 3 each @ 300 !! and Topcatcbr has done 50 of them so its not even three each!!!:eek: I'd say it will be a few years before most of us break even

35 of them was in the HESS scheme and these wont show up in the figures as no cert was issued even though it was published.

BERarchtech

No6 wrote: »

It might be a good ides to watch SEI's monthly figure's, when last I heard there was about 700 registered assessors and only around 2000 published certs or about 3 each @ 300 !! and Topcatcbr has done 50 of them so its not even three each!!!:eek: I'd say it will be a few years before most of us break even

thats the problem really. but then thats business I suppose! I was adding it up (more dreaming really :P) of doing LOADS of these things at even 200/300 a go and it could be great money if you could turn them around fast but I don't think the demand is there really. I'd maybe even be prepared to do them at a loss (by which I mean cost of registration + insurance) if i thought there would be money in it in a year or two but I'm not 100% sure there will be

No6

dream on BERarchtech, for the time being unless you have a few definate jobs dont do it unless your are prepared to wait a long time for payback!!:eek:

dahayeser

Can anyone point me in the direction of a broker offering the 6.5 PL and 1.3 PI package for less thatn 1000? Most of the quotes I am getting are around 1100.

Like everyone else I'm getting a bit pesemistic about how long it will take to even get the set up fees back. An auctioneer I am hoping to deal showed me stacks of fliers he has received from assessors including 1 guy offering to do any house for 199. Not sure if that includes the SEI fee and the VAT. There won't be much profit made if we have to compete with that.

archtech

dahayeser wrote: »

Can anyone point me in the direction of a broker offering the 6.5 PL and 1.3 PI package for less thatn 1000? Most of the quotes I am getting are around 1100.

PI quotes, like everything depends on a number of individual factors, including experience, qualification, risk/ type of work engaged in and if you currently have PI. Every situation is different.

Johnny Lamp

whatever about PI (needed definitely) if my energy rating business didn't have public cover surely I'd be operating illegally?

topcatcbr

PI & PL

Better to have and not need it than need and not have.

dahayeser

I am being offered an excellent quote with <SNIP> for a PI and PL package.

Anyone know anything about them? Excellent quote, sounded a bit sales pitchy though?

collei

BERarchtech wrote: »

Hi Folks. Ive been reading a lot of posts here and they are very helpful indeed!

I'm an arch tech and I've qualified as a BER Assessor. I'm considering registering but I'm not sure if its worth it after all when you take account of the fees involved and the possible return.

The way I see it it costs 1000 +vat to register, about 400-700 for insurances and I've already paid 1800 in course fees.

From what I can see the average fee for a BER Cert is about 350 meaning it would require 10 of more certs before it paid for itself by which time a year could have passed then you need more insurance and registration fees etc.

I'm just wondering if any of you have been in the same situation and decided to register. is it worth it? I feel 350 is a bit cheap considering the time involved. I know some of this has already been dealt with on other posts but I'd appreciate some advise on becoming a registered assessor. are there any pot holes that I should be aware of and might not have considered yet? is there even much work to be obtained etc??

Thanks in advance!

Hi BERarchtech,
This is my first time posting on this so excuse the mess if I leave one.
Bacically I am in the same boat as you, I have been working as an Arch Tech for the last 4 years and done the BER course with an idea to become self-employed.
I have just paid E550 to do the existing course and stil have to pay E1215 to register. Just wondering did you register after that?
If you did do you think it is worth it?

ben bedlam

Im a registered BER Assessor in the process of buying insurance. What I want to know is: what do i look for?

Whats the difference between PI and PL?

No6

ben bedlam wrote: »

Im a registered BER Assessor in the process of buying insurance. What I want to know is: what do i look for?

Whats the difference between PI and PL?

If you had asked this question before you put a few posts in other BER threads advertising your "friends" low cost BER service I may have helped you but now i suggest you have a read of the forum charter and hope muffler dosnt ban you!!! and try google.

muffler

Someone called!!!!!!!!!!

ben bedlam wrote: »

Im a registered BER Assessor in the process of buying insurance. What I want to know is: what do i look for?

Whats the difference between PI and PL?

ben bedlam wrote: »

Everyone on the SEI register has completed the appropriate training, exams and has paid their dues and is qualified to carry out assessments...........I cant see how someone should have to pay more than €150 for a cert.

properly qualified to carry out assessments yet you dont know anything about insurance?

ben bedlam wrote: »

An assessor friend of mine says he does BERs for €225 inclusive of SEI fee (no VAT needed). He says people wont pay more than €250 for one

So your friend is overcharging by €75?

You know I dont believe you at all and I dont see a future here for you either. Come back and talk to me in a few days and tell me who you really are (yourself or your friend) and why you wish to contribute, if thats the right word, to this forum.

clint_eastman

Has anyone definitively answered the question "is it necessary to maintain PI insurance for the 10 years after your last BER cert being issued if you have ceased trading?"

No6

Jesus are you going out of buisness already?? :eek: Ask you insurer about run off cover, its normal practice in other professions.