Montenegro vs Ireland

mru

newballsplease wrote: »

ive nothing but respect for kilbane, whats he on now 49 consectutive games for his country, playing with a dodgey chin or whatever. the man is a true Ireland legend.
and i think hes finally settling into that left back role!! (hope he doesnt screw up no coz i said that)
as for JOS, hes won more medals then any other player on the team so.............

that's pretty much the crux of my argument when the booze flows with the lads - and there's v few that agree with me! anyways, hopefully kilbane scores the winner, and JOS clears one off the line or something on Wed

Myxomatosis

newballsplease wrote: »

FOR THE LAST TIME: montenegro are not as bad as everyone thinks.
do you not know Irelands away record?

Ireland are not as bad as you think.

Irelands away record counts for nothing. New management, new tournament, new center midfield.

There is a serious lack of ambition and lack of confidence in our own players by many Irish fans if they think that we would be lucky to draw against Georgia, Montenegro and even Bulgaria.

Hell I'd wouldn't even fear Italy that much.

JMB88

As someone said before if Ireland arent capable of going there and getting three points ... then we're not worthy of a place in SA 2010. I think Ireland have a super chance of picking up the three points, worse case scenario would be a draw.

JimiTime

Myxomatosis wrote: »

Ireland are not as bad as you think.

Irelands away record counts for nothing. New management, new tournament, new center midfield.

There is a serious lack of ambition and lack of confidence in our own players by many Irish fans if they think that we would be lucky to draw against Georgia, Montenegro and even Bulgaria.

Hell I'd wouldn't even fear Italy that much.

Thats the thing. 'Fear'. We should not 'fear' anyone. I know nothing about Montenegro, but I know that the former yugoslav republics will still be handy on the pitch. TBH, i wouldn't be happy with a draw. If we are serious about qualifying, we need to be taking 3 points of these teams. I'd be 'satisfied' with an 'away' point against Bulgaria, and delighted with a point home and away against Italy. But we need to be looking for max points against all other sides in the group.
We have a management that has given us organisation. There seems to be a plan. I wonder why he doen't seem to like A.Reid, and I wonder if he's a bit too conservative. However, I am hopeful he'll do us good. We have a decent side and a decent manager, I just hope the confidence and ambition is there to take it to these sides. Like an earlier poster said, the Georgia game was crying out for someone who could get on the ball and use it, i.e. Andy Reid. I'm baffled as to why he's not in the team. Like a poor mans Fabregas, I think A.Reid will make others play better. We lacked cleverness against Georgia. Hunt and McGeady were 1 trick ponies. They have their place don't get me wrong, but I think A.Reid would give us alot more guile and penetration. While he wont be running 'round like Hunt, he's not afraid to put his tackles in neither.

roryc

This is madness everyone saying they'd be happy with a draw... Its Montenegro ffs, a few years ago we wouldn't even consider anything but a win against a team like this. I agree they aren't a bad side, they proved that against a decent Bulgarian team and were lucky not to take 3 points. Vucinic especially looks dangerous.

They are only only 20 places or so behind us in the rankings, and as Lloyd said the national pride thing will create some atmosphere over there, but these are teams we should be beating comfortably if we want any chance of qualifying.

Seeing Italy the other night makes me think that topping the group is not impossible... We need to get 6 points against Georgia, Montenegro and our old enemies, Cyprus. Can't rely on any of these 'small countries' taking any more points off our two realistic competitors, Italy and Bulgaria.

The worst thing (obviously) would be for us to lose on Wednesday, as it will really dent the teams morale. Why couldn't we have gotten San Marino or Andorra in our group!

Smegball

I'm worried Vucinic will destroy O Shea in the air to be honest, I can see us taken the lead and conceding late as usual and take a draw.

JimiTime

Smegball wrote: »

I'm worried Vucinic will destroy O Shea in the air to be honest, I can see us taken the lead and conceding late as usual and take a draw.

Thats my concern with conservative managers. Sometimes their deployment of defensive players invites too much pressure, and they nick a goal at the death.

monkey9

It's most definately a game we can win, but a point wouldn't be a disaster!

JimiTime

monkey9 wrote: »

It's most definately a game we can win, but a point wouldn't be a disaster!

agreed, i'd be disappointed with anything less than a win though.

Smegball

JimiTime wrote: »

Thats my concern with conservative managers. Sometimes their deployment of defensive players invites too much pressure, and they nick a goal at the death.

To be fair though Trap has gotten us looking pretty organised defensively, if we can soak up that pressure and counter attack with our nippy wingers and Keane and Doyle I think we could do rather well

JimiTime

Smegball wrote: »

To be fair though Trap has gotten us looking pretty organised defensively, if we can soak up that pressure and counter attack with our nippy wingers and Keane and Doyle I think we could do rather well

You can have all the organisation you want, but in John O'Shea we have someone who is prone to error. Our shining light in defence, Richard Dunne, who I rate highly, can still have lapses in concentration. But I do think we're going to do well. Though I think he needs to get the best out of Keane and McGeady.

Ruskie4Rent

Smegball wrote: »

I'm worried Vucinic will destroy O Shea in the air to be honest, I can see us taken the lead and conceding late as usual and take a draw.

jovetic is sure to make sure whealan has his hands full too. monenegro are gonna be a goal threat and won't be as easy to beat as people are letting on.

newballsplease

just heard on radio: dunno what station


THERES A KNEE INJURY SCARE FOR STEVEN REID.:eek:

tetsujin1979

Reid sat out training as a precaution: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3550

Smegball

JimiTime wrote: »

You can have all the organisation you want, but in John O'Shea we have someone who is prone to error. Our shining light in defence, Richard Dunne, who I rate highly, can still have lapses in concentration. But I do think we're going to do well. Though I think he needs to get the best out of Keane and McGeady.

Agreed, as a Ireland and United fan anytime I see O Shea in centre defense or even centre midfield I fear the worst

Mr Moon

Can you not see us struggling against Montenegro?

1. We're away from home and our away record speaks for itself!

2. Montenegro should've beaten Bulgaria a team who are higher ranked than us.

3. If we can't keep hold of the ball when we need to close out games, teams are going to punish us!

4. John O'Shea in central defense!!!!

JimiTime

Mr Moon wrote: »

Can you not see us struggling against Montenegro?

In all honesty, I am being completely speculative. Apart from one or two players, i know nothing about them. have you seen them? If you have, Would you reckon that we should be worried?

1. We're away from home and our away record speaks for itself!

TBH, the past is the past. We had an awful manager etc etc. Stats don't really come into it for me.

2. Montenegro should've beaten Bulgaria a team who are higher ranked than us.

Again, did you see the game? If they do look as good as you say then, feck! TBH though, if we are to be thinking of qualification, I think winning these games will be the difference. Thinking about the Israel games under Kerr. If we hadn't thrown away the leads we had, we'd have topped the group. Its getting the positive results against those middle type teams that make the difference at the end most of the time.

3. If we can't keep hold of the ball when we need to close out games, teams are going to punish us!

Couldn't agree more!

4. John O'Shea in central defense!!!!

Again, i agree. he played well against Georgia though, so hopefully.....

gosplan

As regards Montenegro's quality:

They're not strong if you're talking international competition standards. They'll be handy but everyone knows that they're probably not going to qualify for anything...ever.

If we want to play in the world cup finals, we have to be beating opponents like this and if we believe that this Irish team is good enough to play in South Africa then we should respect the Montenegro team but not fear them.

We fear them because we basically don't know whether we're good enough or not.

I basically see them as a Litmus test - if we can't get over this hurdle, then me don't really belong in the world cup - simple as that.

PHB

If Steven Reid is out, I can't see us winning. Honestly, he is the key to Ireland's success. Why? Because we've got **** all in central midfield at all.

darkman2

The prize for Ireland tomorrow night could not be bigger - a win would secure two away victories....then it is three home games all very winable. If we beat Montenegro we are on our way. Bulgaria and Montenegro have already dropped 2 points each. A win tomorrow would be fantastic:cool:

genericgoon

gosplan wrote: »

As regards Montenegro's quality:

They're not strong if you're talking international competition standards. They'll be handy but everyone knows that they're probably not going to qualify for anything...ever.

If we want to play in the world cup finals, we have to be beating opponents like this and if we believe that this Irish team is good enough to play in South Africa then we should respect the Montenegro team but not fear them.

We fear them because we basically don't know whether we're good enough or not.

I basically see them as a Litmus test - if we can't get over this hurdle, then me don't really belong in the world cup - simple as that.

I don't know. With the exception of the top 3 or so countries in the Europe and the punching bags like Malta, there is just a huge swathe of countries which are stuck in the 'average' bracket. This means that the difference in quality between us and most of these E European teams is fairly small. This of course means that the amount of points teams will take off each other is higher, creating a far more volatile points situation. So I don't really think losing/drawing with Montenegro would be a disaster for us, as I think that we won't the only ones losing points against 'minnows'. In the end though, less predictability will make it a lot more interesting

Het-Field

Myxomatosis wrote: »

I'd take nothing less than a win.

I have to agree with this. Without getting a win here, I dont think we can consider ourselves as contenders. Regardless of Montenegro's strength, it is crucial that we pick up 18 points from the games against them Georgia and Cyprus. What killed us in 2005 was the draws against Israel. They were a decent team who we took a2 goal lead against, and held scoreless for 90 minutes. However, we pissed away those leads on both occasions. Thats what stopped us going to Germany in 2006

Vokes

Dunne pleased with Trapattoni’s system

Manchester City defender Richard Dunne has witnessed the benefits of a particular system used by Republic of Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni since the Italian took the helm.

The Irish defence has conceded just three goals in four matches during Trapattoni’s reign to date, the latest match on Saturday in Mainz where Ireland opened their 2010 World Cup qualifying campaign with a 2-1 win over Georgia.

The roles of central-midfield duo Glenn Whelan and Steven Reid have been especially critical to protecting the back-four from counter-attacking moves by the opposition.

Dunne said: 'It's great for us because we have got control of where they go and and trying to tell them (the midfielders) to stay back, and it gives the two centre-halves a lot of cover.

“Also, for the two centre-halves or any defenders who have the ball, it's a simple pass for us, so we can just concentrate on the defending. It does benefit us, especially in tough away games.”

The Manchester City captain was glad to have collected the three points in the campaign opener. The memory of losing matches on the road during previous campaigns has taught the Dubliner a lot in terms of qualification hopes.

“We should have been going to places like Cyprus and winning over there, but it didn't turn out that way and it just puts everything on a downer,” he said.

“It was always catch-up from then on and you could never really recover from it.”

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3553

I reckon we're gonna nick this one by a single goal again. 1-0.



Elsewhere, Givens & Co. are 2-1 down against Portugal U21s in the 2nd half.

Denis Irwin

I'll happily take a scrappy 1-0 win for us with the ball being deflected into the Montenegro net off John O'Shea's arse.

shane86

It is doable, but Traps selections are worrying me. Now, tbh it is highly possible bringing off Doyle prevented putting further pressure on whatever knock he sustained, so fair play. But Miller and McShane? Miller has proven himself at neither international nor PL level. McShane was a brick wall vs the Czechs but has been fairly average since, both club and country. These are subs you test in a friendly, not a competitive. And certainly not with any less than a 3 goal advantage IMO. The team is certainly playing with more confidence and determination. They look like they want to be there, rather than the Stan days where they looked as if they wanted to be back home. But these subs...I dunno. Morrison was knocking them in for palace last season. Surely a better intro to relieve Doyle instead of Miller?

dsmythy

People seem to be dismissing the away form. There was bad management but it's gone on long enough to be a feature of the team.

Teams we've beaten away from home in competitive action since September 2002:

Georgia (2) 2-1/2-1
Faroe Islands 2-0
Cyprus 1-0
San Marino 2-1

That's it. Not impressive either.

PHB

I think we desperately need S. Reid to play. If he doesn't, I just don't know how its going to work. We'll need a clean sheet in this one.

shane86

PHB wrote: »

I think we desperately need S. Reid to play. If he doesn't, I just don't know how its going to work. We'll need a clean sheet in this one.

He has recovered afaik.

To clarify what I said, I certainly think Trap has been a positive so far. There were dips in the tempo on Saturday but generally they look a strong, fit, determined team who play well off each other. But the subbing......Im not sold. From what Ive read Montenegro are strong up front and very weak at the back. Unfortunately, we can be weak at the back and average up front. Still, Doyle follows a Reading hatrick with ending his Irish drought, lets hope he is in good form.

Mad to see Dunphy giving some level of criticism after how he sang Traps praises before he started :pac:

newballsplease

so its the same starting 11......... that doesnt happen often does it??
as long as reid passes a fitness test, but he should be ok.

i think we will get a win.
say a prayer!

eagle eye

We were organised and disciplined on Saturday, everyone knew their job, we looked like a better team than we have done for a long time. Thank you Signor Trappatoni.

Now of course its only natural to expect a similar performance and three points again. At least that is what I would expect. More of the same please lads and we should have another happy night.

I looked at their team and they have two good forwards and one defender in the bundesliga with cottbus and a midfielder in Portugal with Sporting. I think people are overestimating the merits of their performance against Bulgaria. I personally think Bulgaria are on the slippery slope that we went down under Staunton.

newballsplease

maybe, but you can never see ireland going out a comfortably beating any team.... georgia could have been a different story if whelans goal didnt go in.
it will be tight i think.

leggo

I don't think we should worry too much about Montenegro. Ireland are a side with the quality and Premiership experience (young players notwithstanding considering it's prob the strongest league in the world atm) that we should only really be concerned with adjusting our game notably for the likes of Italy, and ever-so-slightly for even the 2nd tier like the Bulgarians (i.e. if they've got a REAL dangerman, i.e. one who stands out on his own merit and isn't just raved about because he plays for Milan or Deportivo la Coruna).

Forget about previous managers like Staunton and Kerr denting our confidence and look at the fact: most of our players are Premiership-based and even the young one's have shown tremendous potential that Trap can allow to flourish. We've a good spine to the team in Given, Dunne, Steven Reid and Keane (or Doyle if you're not a Robbie fan). Plus we've a world class manager who, thus far, is making us quite efficient in getting results from games like this.

If Ireland go out and play the game for themselves, show discipline and focus as they did against Georgia (last few minutes aside), a 1-0 or 2-1 is very achievable! A draw is by no means the end of the world either. 4 or 6 points from two away games that would've, under Staunton or Kerr, seen us come away from them knowing that our qualification chances were blown is a reason to smile and we can look forward to the next round of games after. Let's just hope it doesn't all explode in our faces (which I highly doubt it will).

Mr Magnolia

I wouldn't get too carried away after watching the Serbia game not all that long ago. Still, it's great to see them with a bit of shape and Reid back in the squad also. Hopefully they can keep up a head of pressure and make a good account of themselves tonight.

Sherifu

I expect it to be tight but Ireland to win by 1.

cournioni

leggo wrote: »

I don't think we should worry too much about Montenegro. Ireland are a side with the quality and Premiership experience (young players notwithstanding considering it's prob the strongest league in the world atm) that we should only really be concerned with adjusting our game notably for the likes of Italy, and ever-so-slightly for even the 2nd tier like the Bulgarians (i.e. if they've got a REAL dangerman, i.e. one who stands out on his own merit and isn't just raved about because he plays for Milan or Deportivo la Coruna).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montenegro_football#Current_squad

Plenty of players playing for decent clubs there. Mirko Vučinić is their main man, he plays for Roma and is in my eyes a real danger man. He's caused United a few problems over the past few years where he has come off the bench to be involved in a few goals. Some of the others are at Champions League clubs like Fiorentina, Sporting, Cluj etc. How many of our players are playing in the CL this year??

They will be no push overs and I would be happy with us getting a point from the game.

newballsplease

ah hey lads, ye should look up the interview on the eircom.net homepage website, with karl spain- interviewing aidan mc geady and steven reid. its good for a laugh!!
sorry i dont have the link

djpbarry

PORNAPSTER wrote: »

They will be no push overs and I would be happy with us getting a point from the game.

They won’t be pushovers, but they do tend to leak goals. In their 10 games to date, they've conceded 16 and only managed two clean sheets; against Estonia and Kazakhstan. If we discount those two games, they've conceded 2 goals per game.

I fancy us to score at least once tonight - it's all about keeping it tight at the back.

Dolph Starbeam

Ye if we defend like we did for most parts last weekend i think we'll be ok tonight for a win.

Xavi6

leggo wrote: »

I don't think we should worry too much about Montenegro. Ireland are a side with the quality and Premiership experience (young players notwithstanding considering it's prob the strongest league in the world atm) that we should only really be concerned with adjusting our game notably for the likes of Italy, and ever-so-slightly for even the 2nd tier like the Bulgarians (i.e. if they've got a REAL dangerman, i.e. one who stands out on his own merit and isn't just raved about because he plays for Milan or Deportivo la Coruna).

Forget about previous managers like Staunton and Kerr denting our confidence and look at the fact: most of our players are Premiership-based and even the young one's have shown tremendous potential that Trap can allow to flourish. We've a good spine to the team in Given, Dunne, Steven Reid and Keane (or Doyle if you're not a Robbie fan). Plus we've a world class manager who, thus far, is making us quite efficient in getting results from games like this.

If Ireland go out and play the game for themselves, show discipline and focus as they did against Georgia (last few minutes aside), a 1-0 or 2-1 is very achievable! A draw is by no means the end of the world either. 4 or 6 points from two away games that would've, under Staunton or Kerr, seen us come away from them knowing that our qualification chances were blown is a reason to smile and we can look forward to the next round of games after. Let's just hope it doesn't all explode in our faces (which I highly doubt it will).

Now correct me if I'm wrong but if we're playing a team that we shouldn't be worrying about then surely you wouldn't be happy with a one goal win or a draw?

I'm very surprised that some people see this a being pretty much a gimme. Ireland have struggled against far worse teams and are hardly a team of world beaters themselves.

noodler

This is true. Given the quality of the opposition, the heat and the partisan fans-I would say that any win we do get would be by the odd goal.

Nalz

Id be disappointed with a draw but my head says that is the most likely result

djpbarry

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm very surprised that some people see this a being pretty much a gimme…

I don’t think anyone is really of that opinion. I suppose people are just a little more confident than they might have been after the performance on Saturday.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Ireland have struggled against far worse teams and are hardly a team of world beaters themselves.

They have, but, based on the two team-sheets (or at least what we know of the Montenegrin team-sheet) and on current form, I think it’s fair to say that defeat this evening would be a poor result. All of Montenegro’s strength appears to be in attack; if we can contain them, then, given their defensive record, we’ve every chance of knickin’ a goal or two.

One other thing – I don’t think it’s going to be quite as hot as expected; high twenties rather than mid-thirties.

Vokes

Teamsheet is out. It's an unchanged line-up.

leninbenjamin

SofaK wrote: »

Teamsheet is out. It's an unchanged line-up.

excellent.

i'm more fearful tonight. ordinarily i think we'd just about beat them (or at least match them) but with the heat i'm finding it very difficult to see ourselves lasting the full 90 mins. I think Montenegro will nick a win, probably later on in the match as usual.

Unearthly

I'm gonna go for 1-0 Ireland

keane

kenco

The lads on Newstalk were commenting on the heat last night and said that while it was warm it was not humid. The feeling was that by 7pm local time it would be a warm evening but no more. Also interestingly they made the point that a lot of the Montenegro team dont play in conditions anywhere like they get at home.....

Not sure how to call this one myself. There will definately be goals and if we play with the same approach as Saturday then I think we can win as we should score more against this defence (apparently much worse than Georgia) then they score against us.

Lots of if and assumptions there but we should come away with a result here and hopefully 3pts if we play well. Montenegro at home will be a banana skin for at least one of the teams in contention. Lets get them out of the way early with 3pts hopefully. Thinking 3-1 myself.....

Mitch Connor

Boyle Sports were offering 34/1 for Keane as first scorer and Ireland to win 2-1. Not a bad bet at all.

corban

i think if we got a draw that would be a good result.... 4 from 6, away from home first 2 games would be a good start...

glad to see s reid is fit...still not sure about mcgeady... did he do anything against georgia after the first 15 minutes?

i suppose we dont have much of a choice in that position...

herbieflowers

give me odds on Montenegro scoring in the last minute...

pesireland

It think its great to have a buzz about Irish internationals again, it was a complete disaster under Staunton and i for one could have cared less, they were imbarresing to watch.

Trappa seems to have caught the imagination of the country and the whole country is behind the team again, and a spirit about the squad that i think has been missing for so long, as the team spirit was always our strong point.

I really looking forward to the game tonight and i think the lads can pull it off and get 6 pts from 6, to leave us in a good position.

Come On Ireland!!!