Would any of you support Sharia law in Ireland?

wes

CDfm wrote: »

I heard that the Mosque in the Mosney Illegal Immigrant Camp is located in the old Butlins bar. LOL

Alright that is pretty funny.

hivizman

CDfm wrote: »

I heard that the Mosque in the Mosney Illegal Immigrant Camp is located in the old Butlins bar. LOL

Actually my mum first met my dad in the bar at Mosney back in the Butlins days. Presumably the bar's been deconsecrated, or whatever you do with bars?

FX Meister

what would be the point? Sharia law is backwards, outdated, sexist and racist. It has no place in any modern society. FACT

CDfm

hivizman wrote: »

Actually my mum first met my dad in the bar at Mosney back in the Butlins days. Presumably the bar's been deconsecrated, or whatever you do with bars?

if they want to go back your mum will have to wear a scarf and long sleeves etc

and they will have to leave their shoes outside.

wonder does it still have a bar licence cos they have to open the bar at least once a year-that would be very funny

maybe someone should post on BGRF and ask

FX Meister

I'm sure the bar license was sold and transfered somewhere else

CDfm

FX Meister wrote: »

I'm sure the bar license was sold and transfered somewhere else

it wouldnt be worth much and would have been more value keeping

Jack Sheehan

Absolutely not. Ireland is a secular republic and Religion of any kind should have no place within it's laws.

JWAD

AbuBakr wrote: »

In a few years, inshallah, Ireland will be a fully Islamic country and we'll have the Sharia

:rolleyes:
Have fun in the 'Waddya say? Sharia or not?' referendum.

CDfm

Many legal systems are outdated and adapt to modern circumstances - i have asked the OP what parts he would adopt and why but he has kept quiet.

Most people see the criminal codes and religious & moral aspects etc of sharia systems and assume that thats all there all there is to the legal system -not so.Copyright law has its origans in Irish Brehon law and we dont discount that.

There is a Rabbinic court in London that civil cases can be transfered to and at contract law you could have cases where a jurat clause could be inserted making a contract subject to sharia law in a certain jurisdiction or to an alternative dispute resolution there.

So its not that far fetched at all.

wes

JWAD wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Have fun in the 'Waddya say? Sharia or not?' referendum.

I doubt you will get a reply. That poster hasn't bothered to reply to anyone.

CDfm

wes wrote: »

I doubt you will get a reply. That poster hasn't bothered to reply to anyone.

this could become a fun thread

wes

CDfm wrote: »

this could become a fun thread

I know what your getting at, but the guy just registered and said one thing and hasn't replied since. I honestly doubt we will see any reply from the guy is all.

CDfm

wes wrote: »

I know what your getting at, but the guy just registered and said one thing and hasn't replied since. I honestly doubt we will see any reply from the guy is all.

he replied to me on one a thread on the pope -atheist v christan thread.

a pity -cos I would have been interested to hear his views

maybe he is anti his old culture and religion

JWAD

CDfm wrote: »

There is a Rabbinic court in London that civil cases can be transfered to and at contract law you could have cases where a jurat clause could be inserted making a contract subject to sharia law in a certain jurisdiction or to an alternative dispute resolution there.

So its not that far fetched at all.

This is not the UK and unless I'm much mistaken there have never been any provisions in the law here allowing pockets of judicial application. religious or otherwise, be it any form of halakhah (Jewish law), Sharia or anything else.

I just made a comment about that fella's claim that this country will be fully Islamic.
I put this down to wishful delusion. Either that or he's reading too much Steyn, Daily Mail or listening to too much O'Reilly/Littlejohn/AnyNutjobOutThere

Still, never mind. We all carry on.

FX Meister

CDfm wrote: »

it wouldnt be worth much and would have been more value keeping

Keep a license for a muslim mosque or sell the license to someone who wants to use it to open a pub. You really think the first option holds the most profit? Are you on drugs?

wes

CDfm wrote: »

he replied to me on one a thread on the pope -atheist v christan thread.

I am a little confused, the guy AbuBakr, only has a single post.

CDfm

I was talking about ##### Ikari who posed the question

CDfm

FX Meister wrote: »

Keep a license for a muslim mosque or sell the license to someone who wants to use it to open a pub. You really think the first option holds the most profit? Are you on drugs?

What I am saying is that if you own a property that is built for the purpose of a holiday comlplex ,resort or whatever you want to call it. Giving up or selling your licence for a few yoyos may not be the brightest thing.

Especially if you are relying on the existance of the aforementioned licences as part of any future redevolpment of the site or complex -given the nature of Irish Planning and licencing laws.

So it would be very ironic if the Mosque had a licence and .........see what I mean.

Sorry you didnt grasp the juxtaposition together with the humour element.

Shinji Ikari

wes wrote: »

I know what your getting at, but the guy just registered and said one thing and hasn't replied since. I honestly doubt we will see any reply from the guy is all.

Oh ye of little faith:D Anyway. C.D.F.M. I'm certainly not anti Old Culture.
I am anti bigotry and barbarism however. There are many aspects of sharia law which are barbaric I defy any decent person to argue against this. I certainly would not want any aspect of Sharia law being applied to any non muslim nor any person under 18.
There might be a case for certain civil matters being dealt with within the Muslim community.i.e. trade disputes, sort of like an alternative small claims court. It would de-congest the waiting list for the national courts. However, the problem with this is that its like having a state within a state. Its the same stategy employed by the first Dail during the Irish war of independence, totally different context I know. Another problem is that if you allow a different judicial system for muslims where does it end? A different judicial system for Prysbytarians, Anglicans, Buddhists, Sikhs, devout Catholics ect. No, it would dilute the authority of the state. We all benefit from the protection of the state, guards, hospitals ect. The state protects us from anarchy and in return we surrender a part of our natural freedom for this protection from anarchy. Thats the argument Hobbes made in the Leviathan for the existence of government and its a valid argument. Sharia Law would dilute the Irish state. So my opinion is if you want to live in Ireland you must adhere to her laws. These laws must be applicable to all Irish citizens with no discrimination, positive or negative.

FX Meister

CDfm wrote: »

Sorry you didnt grasp the juxtaposition together with the humour element.

I'm sorry it wasn't very funny. Really, I'm sorry.

wes

Shinji Ikari wrote: »

Oh ye of little faith:D.

Sorry man, I didn't mean you. I got a little confused there, I was talking abou that AbuBakr guy who posted once and then was gone.

Oh and the arbitration system would be voluntary and wouldn't supercede any Irish law or anything like that. Thats my understanding of such a system. So its not a seperate system, but a way for people to resolve a dispute amongst themselves. Also, anyone could use it not just Muslims, as they currently can do in the UK.

If it was anything other than people solving a problem amongst themselve, than I would agree with you and it would be a seperate legal system and a very bad idea.

CDfm

Shinji Ikari wrote: »

Oh ye of little faith:D Anyway. C.D.F.M. I'm certainly not anti Old Culture.
I am anti bigotry and barbarism however. There are many aspects of sharia law which are barbaric I defy any decent person to argue against this. I certainly would not want any aspect of Sharia law being applied to any non muslim nor any person under 18.

So my opinion is if you want to live in Ireland you must adhere to her laws. These laws must be applicable to all Irish citizens with no discrimination, positive or negative.

with you on the barbarism 100%

but we should not be afraid of being open to new ideas.

Florence Nightengales nurses could have learned a bit about nutition and patient care from Salidens medics 700 years before.

ChocolateSauce

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

Absolutely not. Ireland is a secular republic and Religion of any kind should have no place within it's laws.

I agree with the latter statement, but the former simply is not true, I'm sorry to say. State-funded Catholic schools, the Angelus on RTE, and prayer sessions in the Dail are all the anti-thesis of a secular republic. We are de facto becoming secular, but de jure and still in many walks of life it is a Catholic state. For example, the Pope can't sneeze without it being reported, whereas the heads of state/government of much more important countries don't get nearly the same media coverage.

Regarding the situation in the UK and the alleged Jewish court...I don't agree it should be allowed to exist. I also think we don't need to mimic the UK in everything it does. If Irish Jews want to be ruled by Jewish law, emigrate to Israel; that's why it was created. Alternatively, petition the government to have Jewish law applied to the whole of Ireland. But we cannot have one system of law for some and another for others. All people are equal before the law.

Shinji Ikari wrote:

Another problem is that if you allow a different judicial system for muslims where does it end? A different judicial system for Prysbytarians, Anglicans, Buddhists, Sikhs, devout Catholics ect. No, it would dilute the authority of the state.

Indeed. Although it would be fun if I could be ruled by my own "atheist law (since there are many atheist viewpoints)". It would no longer be illegal for me to abort foetuses, smoke drugs or engage in illicit sexual practices which I do not consider immoral (but are illegal). While this sounds great to me, if I were granted this right, others would also have to be granted the right to have their own laws, and a downward spiral would begin. Only by having a democratically agreed unitary system of law can society remain cohesive unretarded.

That being said, I'm no statist. I think bad/flawed laws, or laws imposed by corrupt authorities, should be flouted. Law is there to protect people and promote society. If a law does not do this, it should be scrapped.

hivizman

wes wrote: »

Oh and the arbitration system would be voluntary and wouldn't supercede any Irish law or anything like that. Thats my understanding of such a system. So its not a seperate system, but a way for people to resolve a dispute amongst themselves. Also, anyone could use it not just Muslims, as they currently can do in the UK.

If it was anything other than people solving a problem amongst themselve, than I would agree with you and it would be a seperate legal system and a very bad idea.

As I understand it, the Irish law on arbitration is very similar to that in Britain. There's currently an Arbitration Bill going through the Dáil to introduce the United Nations model code of arbitration. I don't know, however, whether this law would apply just to commercial arbitration or whether it would cover all "alternative dispute resolution" mechanisms. If it did, then conceivably decisions of an Irish "sharia court" could be enforced by the High Court, but the decisions could not involve something that was illegal under Irish law.

Hobbes

When people say "would you support Sharia law" they really are talking about the nastier side of it displayed in certain countries.

I mean if someone was to say "Would you support Irish law" it is the same thing. I am sure some of the people here are going to pipe up "Of course" but you need to take every law into account in such a broad statement. For example do you agree with the TV License? What about abortion laws? divorce laws? toll road laws? learner driver laws? etc, etc...

There are probably some Sharia laws that work better then our system, and some the same.

So as a broad statement I would have to say no (and it is so unlikely to happen, that if it did everyone in Ireland would be muslim anyway).

But break it down on case by case.

wes

hivizman wrote: »

As I understand it, the Irish law on arbitration is very similar to that in Britain. There's currently an Arbitration Bill going through the Dáil to introduce the United Nations model code of arbitration. I don't know, however, whether this law would apply just to commercial arbitration or whether it would cover all "alternative dispute resolution" mechanisms. If it did, then conceivably decisions of an Irish "sharia court" could be enforced by the High Court, but the decisions could not involve something that was illegal under Irish law.

Thanks for that. This is interesting.

I not to bothered either way really, the current system is perfectly fine for everyone.

CDfm

wes wrote: »

Thanks for that. This is interesting.

I not to bothered either way really, the current system is perfectly fine for everyone.

Not really the Irish Courts rarily enforce their own judgements if the person in breach of a court order is a woman.

There are proposals for the summary arrest and detention of men in domestic violence situations even if the agressor is the woman which is the case in 50% of cases.

Thats not so fine is it?

wes

CDfm wrote: »

Not really the Irish Courts rarily enforce their own judgements if the person in breach of a court order is a woman.

There are proposals for the summary arrest and detention of men in domestic violence situations even if the agressor is the woman which is the case in 50% of cases.

Thats not so fine is it?

Wow, really? I never heard of that. Ok, so maybe the system needs some fixing.

CDfm

wes wrote: »

Wow, really? I never heard of that. Ok, so maybe the system needs some fixing.

Not really that fine at all.

Especially when you use a closed system of summary justice with the In Camera( justice behind closed doors) rule.

Sounds pretty much like Islamic Style justice to me.

Whaddya saY?

Shinji Ikari

CDfm wrote: »

Not really the Irish Courts rarily enforce their own judgements if the person in breach of a court order is a woman.

There are proposals for the summary arrest and detention of men in domestic violence situations even if the agressor is the woman which is the case in 50% of cases.

Thats not so fine is it?

Thats ****ing insane! Have you got a link to that? I doubt they would get away with it....