M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

sk8board

thats an average of under 5 cars per minute! or just 2.5 cars each way

as they say, all politics is local

Amtmann

Again, the routes are strategic and will still be in place in 2109. We'll see what movements are like on them in ten, twenty and thirty years' time. If a motorway's lifetime can be reduced to a 24-hr period, then surely we are barely 20 seconds past midnight at this point!

kiwipower

Wild Bill wrote: »

Hmmm. And the traffic split at the M9 heading north would be what....50 to 1 Dublin v Newbridge...or more if you discount local traffic which ain't supposed to be using the M-way system? :cool:

All roads lead to Ballycumber too - but very few folk drive there. Nobody builds motorways on routes that take less than 2,000 vehicles per day. 'Cept maybe the M8 in Tipperary . Or the M6 Athlone - Ballinasloe. Or maybe the M9 near Knocktopher :pac:.

Why shouldnt local traffic use the motorway? They do in other countries to get from one side of a city to another. (For example Brisbane or Perth) Takes strain off local roads. safer for children than having cars speeding through suburbs.

fricatus

sk8board wrote: »

thats an average of under 5 cars per minute! or just 2.5 cars each way

as they say, all politics is local

Remember that there are two viable routes at present for travelling Waterford-Dublin: N9-N7 and N25-N30-N11. While I would normally take the N9 myself, I know countless people who swear by the coast road through Enniscorthy because the N9 through Kilkenny is so God awful (have you ever driven it, sk8board?).

And for anyone travelling to or from places like Dun Laoghaire, Bray or Dundrum at the Dublin end, it's a no brainer to use the N11.

Once the M9 is complete, it will be a no brainer to use it instead of the N11 for all journeys - especially when the southern section of the M50 is sorted out. The M9 will also take a lot of traffic off the N81 and N78.

fricatus

Wild Bill wrote: »

Hmmm. And the traffic split at the M9 heading north would be what....50 to 1 Dublin v Newbridge...or more if you discount local traffic which ain't supposed to be using the M-way system? :cool:

Who says local traffic shouldn't use the motorway system? I would say that most of the traffic on the M50 is local for example.

As long as someone enters and exits the motorway correctly, i.e. via a designated slip road, and drives at an appropriate speed, what's the problem?

Wild Bill wrote: »

All roads lead to Ballycumber too - but very few folk drive there. Nobody builds motorways on routes that take less than 2,000 vehicles per day.

You're completely missing the point. Nobody's talking about building a motorway to take that level of traffic. We're talking about building junctions that allow all possible movements. It's a pretty basic distinction. I'm sure there are plenty of motorway sliproads that don't see a whole lot of action, but they're there to get the most out of the motorway which is already there.

wellbutty

It's ridiculous that this excellent thread is being derailed by people questioning the decision-making behind Transport21 and MIUs. It seems that some people would rather our roads remain as dirt tracks, just as long as their patch gets what's going. There are 5 cities in the Republic...Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford. A decision was made to link all these cities to the capital. This will be finished in 2010 and we should be grateful for it!!! Anyone that has driven the N9 will acknowledge that this is barely R-standard. I wish we could focus on the project itself, instead of the road's justification.

Dum_Dum

wellbutty wrote: »

It's ridiculous that this excellent thread is being derailed by people questioning the decision-making behind Transport21 and MIUs. It seems that some people would rather our roads remain as dirt tracks, just as long as their patch gets what's going. There are 5 cities in the Republic...Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford. A decision was made to link all these cities to the capital. This will be finished in 2010 and we should be grateful for it!!! Anyone that has driven the N9 will acknowledge that this is barely R-standard. I wish we could focus on the project itself, instead of the road's justification.

The N9 needs upgrading anyway. The marginal cost of a full motorway over a less substantial upgrade is small. Both require land purchases and significant earthworks.

Wild Bill

There is an explanation for the Mullinavat figure; much Dub - Wat traffic uses the N11.

What is ClareGalway? A border town?

Chris_533976

The big question amongst all of this is:

Should one section of the M9 have been delayed (say Kilcullen - Carlow), so that the northern section of the M20 (Mallow - Croom) go ahead.

I say yes, definately. But it wouldnt have made political and vote-grabbing sense.

Edit: Should we have an Infrastructure thread simply called "Arguments"

road_high

Chris_533976 wrote: »

The big question amongst all of this is:

Should one section of the M9 have been delayed (say Kilcullen - Carlow), so that the northern section of the M20 (Mallow - Croom) go ahead.

I say yes, definately. But it wouldnt have made political and vote-grabbing sense.

Edit: Should we have an Infrastructure thread simply called "Arguments"

Probably the far busiest section and most deserving for Motorway though. Always bumper to bumper traffic on it.

Wild Bill

Well Kilcullen - Carlow, being the busiest, should surely be the last bit of the M9 to be postponed? But with the N11/N25 on the very-long-finger it is clear that the Dublin - Waterford IU (combined city populations 1.5 million) should take precedence over Cork - Limerick (combined populations not-a-lot). :cool:

placard

Does anyone have any new pics of the scheme? Any news about the opening date of the Kilcullen - Carlow section? Should be soon after the fun run this weekend!!!

Will be interesting to see how kk and wd cities develop with the new motorway link between them.. will take around 25 mins to get from one to the other!!

road_high

placard wrote: »

Does anyone have any new pics of the scheme? Any news about the opening date of the Kilcullen - Carlow section? Should be soon after the fun run this weekend!!!

Will be interesting to see how kk and wd cities develop with the new motorway link between them.. will take around 25 mins to get from one to the other!!

Speaking about Kilkenny city specifically, I know it will be a huge boost commercially and for tourism as well. Kilkenny is heavily dependent on the day-tripper/weekender market from Dublin (both foreign and domestic). To be linked by full motorway in an hour or less is a massive benefit. The whole M9 corridor will be an area of population growth as the economy starts to pick up.

tramor

there's a good reason why the Mullinavat road has only 7K users. You could'nt get much more onto it. Its not much more than a boreen. This is why the motorway is being built. At the moment it is a complete choke point as anyone who drives it will tell you.(average speed 30mph to Paulstown!!!!) Watch that 7K figure rise rapidly over the next few years. The appalling road system around the Southeast has definitely reduced the amount of FDI and business in general in the area. Why would you locate in what is effectively an island off the south coast when you could locate anywhere else in the country.
It's horribly difficult to get out towards Dublin at almost any time of the day. The bridge in Newross is a choke point in that direction. Limerick road also virtually a boreen. Only the Cork road is anyway decent.
Looking at the existing numbers on these roads is not a way to judge if a motorway is necessary or not. The present state of the roads will not allow larger amounts of traffic, unless it is evenly dispersed over a 24 hour period, which is not what happens. My opinion is that this Motorway is overdue by about 15 years.

Setanta_og

wellbutty wrote: »

It's ridiculous that this excellent thread is being derailed by people questioning the decision-making behind Transport21 and MIUs. It seems that some people would rather our roads remain as dirt tracks, just as long as their patch gets what's going. There are 5 cities in the Republic...Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford. A decision was made to link all these cities to the capital. This will be finished in 2010 and we should be grateful for it!!! Anyone that has driven the N9 will acknowledge that this is barely R-standard. I wish we could focus on the project itself, instead of the road's justification.

Couldn't agree with you more wellbutty the cynics have started surfacing on this thread of late fortunately they are about 62 pages late. This thread has been for the most part positive informative and a very enlightening. I think Oscar summoned these chaps up nicely as knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing........

sk8board

fricatus wrote: »

Remember that there are two viable routes at present for travelling Waterford-Dublin: N9-N7 and N25-N30-N11. While I would normally take the N9 myself, I know countless people who swear by the coast road through Enniscorthy because the N9 through Kilkenny is so God awful (have you ever driven it, sk8board?).

sorry, think you misunderstood; being a KK-man I travel the N9 all the time, was on it this morning from sth KK to Dublin city center, and do it about 3 times a week.

I absolutely cannot wait until castledermot is no more; just c a n n o t wait. will take 15mins off a 90-110min regular journey for me, replacing tight roads with comfortable motorway.

as for the southern section thru mullinavegas into WD, I've been on it less than a handful of times this century.

I wasn't playing down the importance of the motorway, just that it won't be the most crowded! the existing road is a joke, and the motorway was probably cheaper than trying to upgrade the exisitng.

look at the carlow by-pass, I passed yesterday evening at about 9pm, and never met nor passed a single car in 18km of motorway, bar seeing a few in the distance; yet it was money very well spent.
(different thread, but ditto for the m50 upgrade; its a fantastic difference)

I have no objection to MIUs and motorways - they are needed.

Maximus82

placard wrote: »

Does anyone have any new pics of the scheme? Any news about the opening date of the Kilcullen - Carlow section? Should be soon after the fun run this weekend!!!

Will be interesting to see how kk and wd cities develop with the new motorway link between them.. will take around 25 mins to get from one to the other!!

Kilcullen - Carlow is opening on 15th December afaik....or in and around that date anyway. Dont know where people are getting November from cause it cetainly wont be ready in November.

ilovegermany

Could anybody explain why some important junctions - such as the M7/M20 are going to be free - flow and then others such as Rathmorrissey M6/M18 are not?

Then on the M9 - Kilkenny is getting a free flow?

Just wondering if the estimated traffic flows for the new roads dictate what kind of junctions/interchanges they get? Or is it just what's the cheapest/easiest to design?

Zoney

ilovegermany:

M9/N10 is a trumpet (this only requires one bridge but only performs the motorway version of a "T" junction) - and the land take for the reasonably large area is presumably not an issue. Also unlike M7/M9, M7/M8 the numbers using the loop will be acceptable (a constant flow on such a loop would tend to cause tailbacks - one reason that a trumpet isn't used for those, although land cost and overall project allocation in early 90s is probably more a reason for M7/M9 being the way it is, with tolling being a contributing issue on M7/M8).

M7/M20 is a junction that's inside Limerick (when you include Raheen) and with high volumes of traffic. Again it is essentially a trumpet (only one bridge - albeit M7/N7 mainline over rather than under) with a couple of extra links provided for the Childers Road link (one loop on the other side, and three ordinary slips to/from the trumpet side).

I do indeed think M6/M18/M17 should be freeflow - but the above is an explanation of why the examples you gave are freeflow when others aren't, and why the cases are quite different.

BluntGuy

Proper junctions for the M7/M8 and M7/M9 would undoubtedly require a third level of grade-seperation. As you say Zoney, a simple loop would be unacceptable.

The M6/M17/M18 doesn't need to be a roundabout, unless they're thinking of tacking on some kind of local access.

Star Spangler

tramor wrote: »

Thanks Rameire! That tie in looks excellent. I was wondering would the finished road be as smooth as the rest of the motorway and it seems it will be.

Roadbridge have told me that they are using a new type of "low noise" surface on the Kicullen-Carlow link.

Star Spangler

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Anyone on here tempted to go for a sneaky drive with a camera??

There is security driving up and down the M9 24/7.

biffoman

BluntGuy wrote: »

Proper junctions for the M7/M8 and M7/M9 would undoubtedly require a third level of grade-seperation. As you say Zoney, a simple loop would be unacceptable.

The M6/M17/M18 doesn't need to be a roundabout, unless they're thinking of tacking on some kind of local access.

would that be the services then?

Star Spangler

mfitzy wrote: »

10k Fun run this Saturday 7th on the M9 Carlow-Kilcullen section.
I wonder will it open soon afterwards or will we have to wait til December?

Roadbridge say the motorway will be finished this month - November. This doesn't mean it will be open though unless their stand-off with the NRA is settled. Other "finishing off" jobs will take them a couple more months (like my driveway!).

Chris_533976

biffoman wrote: »

would that be the services then?

Services were refused by An Bord Pleanala, quite rightly too cos they were in an absolutely stupid location

ilovegermany

Zoney wrote: »

ilovegermany:

M9/N10 is a trumpet (this only requires one bridge but only performs the motorway version of a "T" junction) - and the land take for the reasonably large area is presumably not an issue. Also unlike M7/M9, M7/M8 the numbers using the loop will be acceptable (a constant flow on such a loop would tend to cause tailbacks - one reason that a trumpet isn't used for those, although land cost and overall project allocation in early 90s is probably more a reason for M7/M9 being the way it is, with tolling being a contributing issue on M7/M8).

M7/M20 is a junction that's inside Limerick (when you include Raheen) and with high volumes of traffic. Again it is essentially a trumpet (only one bridge - albeit M7/N7 mainline over rather than under) with a couple of extra links provided for the Childers Road link (one loop on the other side, and three ordinary slips to/from the trumpet side).

I do indeed think M6/M18/M17 should be freeflow - but the above is an explanation of why the examples you gave are freeflow when others aren't, and why the cases are quite different.

Thanks Zoney. Do you think that there will be serious traffic delays at the end of the M9 just outside Waterford City when its finished? Given that it ends at a roundabout and you'll also have N24/N25 traffic?

Roryhy

The roundabout wont be as bad as a lot of people make out, its very big, so has a high capacity. Wait and see

Zoney

Roryhy: It might be OK short term, but I would think it will be very congested in the long term, particularly when the economy picks up again. Of course, the junction will probably be revisited if there is an N24 upgrade, but it would have been preferable to arrange the junction in a final state that anticipates N24 upgrade.

serfboard

Zoney wrote: »

it would have been preferable to arrange the junction in a final state that anticipates N24 upgrade.

Ah now ... that would be "planning" ...;)






Down with that sort of thing