M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

Bards

.. I saw that too, but the geography of the land is pretty flat so should lend itself to rapid construction unlike the Waterford - Knocktopher section which is alomost two years into construction next month, and won't be complete until Q3 this year.

What is worrying is the continued classification of the southern section of the N9 as Dual Carriageway and not Motorway??

Until we hear something official on the re-classification I won't hold my breath

http://www.nra.ie/News/DownloadableDocumentation/file,15954,en.pdf

BluntGuy

Bards wrote: »

.. I saw that too, but the geography of the land is pretty flat so should lend itself to rapid construction unlike the Waterford - Knocktopher section which is alomost two years into construction next month, and won't be complete until Q3 this year.

What is worrying is the continued classification of the southern section of the N9 as Dual Carriageway and not Motorway??

Until we hear something official on the re-classification I won't hold my breath

http://www.nra.ie/News/DownloadableDocumentation/file,15954,en.pdf

It has been included in the second tranche of motorway redesignations. They "resolved" the issue with the N10/N9 junction.

Trotter

Sorry if this has been explained before but why are all of these projected road completions marked as Dual Carriageway?

Was it not originally the plan that we would have a motorway to Dublin, i.e. 120kmph?

Typewriter

My guess is that even if Waterford-Knocktopher opens as dual carriageway it will still be 120kph. e.g. parts of N25, N8, N22 and N2 are dual carriageways with special motorway speed limits . Although maybe not straight away as it might take a few weeks for the council to up the speed limit.

Chris_533976

Trotter wrote: »

Sorry if this has been explained before but why are all of these projected road completions marked as Dual Carriageway?

Was it not originally the plan that we would have a motorway to Dublin, i.e. 120kmph?

Officially they were planned as DC and then legally changed to motorway. As far as the NRA construction department is concerned, and legally, they're N roads. They have been legally upgraded to M roads, but in the legislation they're N roads. Complicated, but thats the deal.

I think the NRA only call something "motorway" in their documentation if it was made with a Motorway Order, and not something thats been reclassified under the Roads Act.

road_high

Beams for the flyover over the existing N10 near Kilkenny are to be raised into place tommorrow. This section is really powering ahead;

http://www.kilkennycoco.ie/eng/Services/Roads/Roads_General/Road_Closures_and_Road_Works_Information_Notices/Monday%202nd%20Feb%20-%20N10%20%20Blanchvillespark%20%20between%20R702%20Gowran%20Junction%20and%20Paulstown.html

johnbk

Had a drive over some back roads over the Kilcullen - Castledermot section today and I was amazed by how much progress is done on this section. Most of it has tarmac down but no concrete barrier yet. There is a large amount of work to do to connect into the Kilcullen section still Looks like they will finish this year.

ilovegermany

Hi, Anybody have any official confirmation as to when the Kilcullen - Carlow element might be opening in 2009?

Haven't been on the old N9 for a few weeks; has the bridge over the new motorway being opened at the pub (can't think of the name) a few miles on the Carlow side of Kilcullen?

Amtmann

Official confirmation is very rarely given until really close to the time. At a certain point in a road's construction, if it's been watched closely, it becomes possible to guestimate when a scheme might open, but the contractor will rarely confirm this (and the NRA never will). The classic indication that an opening is no more than six weeks away is when signage starts to go up.

However, you could ring the company constructing the road and ask to speak to the site manager. He might tell you the unofficial schedule.

marmurr1916

Chris_533976 wrote: »

Officially they were planned as DC and then legally changed to motorway. As far as the NRA construction department is concerned, and legally, they're N roads. They have been legally upgraded to M roads, but in the legislation they're N roads. Complicated, but thats the deal.

I think the NRA only call something "motorway" in their documentation if it was made with a Motorway Order, and not something thats been reclassified under the Roads Act.

All motorways (to date) form part of national primary routes.

Part, or all, of a national primary route can be under standard motorway restrictions.

The part under motorway restrictions will generally have a speed limit of 120 km/h and be signposted with the prefix 'M'.

However, it's still a national primary route (or part of one) and may be referred to as such in legislation, official documents etc.

For example, the M50 is national primary route N50 but is under motorway regulations for its entire length.

Therefore, it is signposted with the 'M' prefix.

It's best to think of Irish roads as routes, parts of which may be under motorway regulations, parts of which may not be.

In theory, a regional route (or even a local route) could have a part-motorway section, although that's unlikely to happen for some time, if at all.

For example, if part of the R400 was placed under motorway restrictions it would be sign-posted as the M400.

fricatus

I took a few photos at the weekend...

This is the Scart overbridge, halfway between Mullinavat and Waterford:




This is looking north from the bridge. Over the brow of the hill is Mullinavat.




This is looking south towards the city. The existing N9 is visible to the right, and you may or may not be able to make out the pylon of the new N25 bridge on the horizon (look to the left of the telegraph pole). It's clearly visible with the naked eye though.

BluntGuy

Looks disconcertingly humpy and bumpy looking to me.

I wonder if shortcuts were taken at the earthworks stages because it looks to me like the motorway could've been a lot more level than it is.

Amtmann

Steepish climb, but not as steep as the Glanmire Bypass for example.

Fricatus, are all sections of that particular scheme at a similar stage of construction?

fricatus

BluntGuy wrote: »

Looks disconcertingly humpy and bumpy looking to me.

I wonder if shortcuts were taken at the earthworks stages because it looks to me like the motorway could've been a lot more level than it is.

Bear in mind that you're looking from a height down over around 5 or 6 km of motorway there. It looked a lot better with the naked eye than it does in that picture. The camera does something to it - no idea what the technical term would be, but it must have something to do with perspective.

The surface of the motorway looks good and smooth. I didn't get down onto it, but it looked good from where I was standing.

Furet wrote: »

Fricatus, are all sections of that particular scheme at a similar stage of construction?

I don't know the answer to that question. Another poster put up pictures a few weeks back from near Knocktopher, and that section was at a similar stage of completion. I'm only really familiar with the bits you can see from the existing N9, and they're a mixed bag.

For example, the big bridge (pictured earlier) over the existing road at Lukeswell, has been up for a while, and is probably at an advanced stage. Further south though, where it crosses back near Kilmacow, is not yet complete. The "walls" (abutments?) either side of the N9 and the railway that runs parallel to it are nearly done, but the cross beams are not up yet.. Also, at the start of the motorway (that dreadful roundabout that will be such a bottleneck in the future), it all looks very rough - just piles of gravel and nothing that looks like a road as yet.

Still though, I remember seeing the Kilkenny ring road between the Dublin Road and Hebron Road in a similar state, but then six weeks later it was open!

Just another update from another part of the motorway: from the new N10 bridge at Danesfort, you can see that they've started to lay the first layer of tarmac (sorry, no idea of the accurate technical term) on one side of the motorway. Seems like very impressive progress!

BluntGuy

fricatus wrote: »

Bear in mind that you're looking from a height down over around 5 or 6 km of motorway there. It looked a lot better with the naked eye than it does in that picture. The camera does something to it - no idea what the technical term would be, but it must have something to do with perspective.

The surface of the motorway looks good and smooth. I didn't get down onto it, but it looked good from where I was standing.

The motorway pavement may have been of good quality, but the way the motorway seems to undulate up and down is disconcerting. It seems like the road tries to accomodate hills by traversing up or down them rather than cutting straight through them as most motorways would.

But that is by no means saying it'll be a Gorey Bypass job. The Fermoy Bypass has undulations like that at points and it's a perfectly fine road. So I won't worry too much just yet.

mike65

The powerful lens causes "forshortening" so any changes are exaggerated. The shot on the previous page where the road appears to be going anywhere it likes is a 10/12 min walk from camera to where the gloom takes over I'd say (thats not 4-6 kms unless you mean the last shot on this page).

Road-Hog

BluntGuy wrote: »

The motorway pavement may have been of good quality, but the way the motorway seems to undulate up and down is disconcerting. It seems like the road tries to accomodate hills by traversing up or down them rather than cutting straight through them as most motorways would.

But that is by no means saying it'll be a Gorey Bypass job. The Fermoy Bypass has undulations like that at points and it's a perfectly fine road. So I won't worry too much just yet.

As I'm sure you are aware the more than usual 'undulating' etc is a result of the 'design build' and PPP form of contract, the contractor's desinger will be trying to minimise the amount of cut (which will reduce cost) while staying within the 'desirable' max/min acceptable gradients, in some cases they will even get departures from these. We can really lay the blame with the PD's and Mary Harney for the apparent excessive up/down nature of the alignment on a lot of the newly opened roads.

Amtmann

Road-Hog wrote: »

We can really lay the blame with the PD's and Mary Harney for the apparent excessive up/down nature of the alignment on a lot of the newly opened roads.

Maybe Mary went for a walk along some sections recently, hence the undulations.

BluntGuy

Road-Hog wrote: »

We can really lay the blame with the PD's and Mary Harney for the apparent excessive up/down nature of the alignment on a lot of the newly opened roads.

As much as I hate the PD philosophy, Mary Harney's hideous plans for our health service (i.e to get rid of it), and the unncessary use of PPPs designed simply to generate money for private sector friends, I can't lay all blame with them.

FF gladly accepted these policies. THEY made the decisions regarding transport. THEY are the ones responsible for the twisted extreme right nature nearly every decision in the last decade was made with. THEY are ultimately responsible for this mess.

NRA don't escape my scrutiny either, they pioneered these design and build contracts, and while they work out fine in the majority of cases - any chance a contractor gets to take shortcuts and save cash, they will take.

But yes, the PD philosophy does have a lot to do with why this country went completely wrong - including the reduction in quality of many roads.

alpha2zulu

Unfortuently the old N9 claimed another life today on a bad bend on the Waterford side of Ballyhale. Its terrible knowing that if that section of the M9 had opened on schedule, Q1 2009, as the sign less than 50m from the crash site proclaimed needless accidents like todays would be avoided.

I travel the road everyday myself and see first hand shocking overtaking, combined with a collapseing road surface in places and trucks out in the middle of the road, a kick to hurry up the contractors is badly needed at this point

road_high

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Unfortuently the old N9 claimed another life today on a bad bend on the Waterford side of Ballyhale. Its terrible knowing that if that section of the M9 had opened on schedule, Q1 2009, as the sign less than 50m from the crash site proclaimed needless accidents like todays would be avoided.

I travel the road everyday myself and see first hand shocking overtaking, combined with a collapseing road surface in places and trucks out in the middle of the road, a kick to hurry up the contractors is badly needed at this point

Thought the exact same today when I heard about that crash. More than likely would not have happened had the new road been open as most of the traffic, in particular HGVs will be transferred off the old road. Very sad.

fricatus

mfitzy wrote: »

Very sad.

Couldn't agree more.

Roll on construction of the M9 - hopefully its opening will slash the number of deaths and injuries along the N9 corridor, as happened along the N1 corridor when it was converted to full motorway.

In that vein, I'm happy to report that there seems to be massive progress in the past couple of weeks in the Waterford area. The river-side of the new dual carriageway from the city to the Newrath roundabout is now almost complete. We should see lines on it any day now, I would think.

The raised causeway between the Newrath roundabout and the Grannagh interchange seems to be coming together too. All the gaps appear to be getting filled nice and quickly.

There is work going on now on the first few hundred metres of the M9 motorway section too - you can see it happening to the north of the M9/N9/N24 roundabout.

The one thing that surprised me is that the old road is still in place at the compound in Mullinavat, and there still seems to be a huge gap where the motorway will go. Maybe that's the bit they'll do last...

spacetweek

BluntGuy wrote: »

As much as I hate the PD philosophy, Mary Harney's hideous plans for our health service (i.e to get rid of it), and the unncessary use of PPPs designed simply to generate money for private sector friends, I can't lay all blame with them.

FF gladly accepted these policies. THEY made the decisions regarding transport. THEY are the ones responsible for the twisted extreme right nature nearly every decision in the last decade was made with. THEY are ultimately responsible for this mess.

NRA don't escape my scrutiny either, they pioneered these design and build contracts, and while they work out fine in the majority of cases - any chance a contractor gets to take shortcuts and save cash, they will take.

But yes, the PD philosophy does have a lot to do with why this country went completely wrong - including the reduction in quality of many roads.

Agree with a lot of the above - but not the reduction in road quality. It's not a reduction in quality, merely a slightly lower standard of what is still full motorway. If a slightly lower standard was a problem, then Japan, Spain, Italy, Greece would not have any motorways, because all of theirs are even lower standard than ours - narrower lanes, more curves, steep inclines etc. due to all the mountains.

The slightly lower standard has undoubtedly saved a pile of money on the ~800 km of roadway that we've used it on. Hard to quantify though.

Cuauhtemoc

The carlow to kilcullen section seems to be progressing very well.
A large section of one side of the motorway(western side) seems to be tarmaced and they've started the eastern side.

The bridge at Kilgowan is finished and lined and presume will open very soon(if not already, haven't been up in a few days).

The tie in at the kilcullen end of the existing m9 sems well advanced with what looks like most of the excavation work done.
Anyone have a rough idea of the opening date?
I seem to remember reading q3 2009 somewhere.

C.

dymonaz

Cuauhtemoc wrote: »

I seem to remember reading q3 2009 somewhere.

NRA says Q4 2010 - unless there's something I don't know... Q3 2009 is for Waterford - Knocktopher, isn't it?

I'd love to see some aerial photos Anyone owns a plane?

fricatus

Cuauhtemoc wrote: »

Anyone have a rough idea of the opening date?
I seem to remember reading q3 2009 somewhere.

C.

dymonaz wrote: »

NRA says Q4 2010 - unless there's something I don't know... Q3 2009 is for Waterford - Knocktopher, isn't it?

Yes, that's right, but an unspecified date in 2009 has nevertheless been mentioned by the minister in a press release for the Kilcullen-Carlow section:
http://www.nra.ie/News/PressReleases/htmltext,15949,en.html

Cuauhtemoc

I think it was here i read it.
http://www.waterford-news.com/news/story/?trs=mhaukfgbey&cat=news

An update of the the waterford city bypass but mentions carlow-kilcullen.

C.

road_high

Cuauhtemoc wrote: »

The carlow to kilcullen section seems to be progressing very well.
A large section of one side of the motorway(western side) seems to be tarmaced and they've started the eastern side.

The bridge at Kilgowan is finished and lined and presume will open very soon(if not already, haven't been up in a few days).

The tie in at the kilcullen end of the existing m9 sems well advanced with what looks like most of the excavation work done.
Anyone have a rough idea of the opening date?
I seem to remember reading q3 2009 somewhere.

C.

They have also started "breaking through" from the Knocktopher to Carlow section to link in with the Carlow bypass at the dump at Powerstown the past few days to tie in with the new road.

road_high

We're now past the 2 year mark on Knocktopher-Waterford...
Anybody have any inside line on things?? Possible opening dates???

Unfortunately I don't know anybody involved on site or anything. Most of the work seemed to be completed bar cosmetcs/tarring/signage etc and a good bit of work still to do at junctions at Knocktopher, Mullinavat, and the flyover over the existing N9 at/near Kearns pub outside Waterford.

Bards, Fricatus you guys hear anything?? I'm dying to see this open asap

Bards

mfitzy wrote: »

We're now past the 2 year mark on Knocktopher-Waterford...
Anybody have any inside line on things?? Possible opening dates???

Unfortunately I don't know anybody involved on site or anything. Most of the work seemed to be completed bar cosmetcs/tarring/signage etc and a good bit of work still to do at junctions at Knocktopher, Mullinavat, and the flyover over the existing N9 at/near Kearns pub outside Waterford.

Bards, Fricatus you guys hear anything?? I'm dying to see this open asap

Sept 2009 is the date I am hearing most often - if that is of any use to you. it is due to coincide with the opening of thw Waterford City Bypass also penciled in for Sept 2009.

You never know Roadbridge/Sisk may even have the Knocktopher to Kilkenny section of Phase 4. completed to coincide with both of these openings.