M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

placard

tomtraubert wrote: »

Its not a cattle crossing exactly.

Its where the farmer crosses his cattle across the Regional road to Nurney/Kildare near Crookstown. He has crossed his cattle here for 50 years and now that this existing regional road has been bridged over the M9 he reckons its not safe.

Do you know what the compromise was to get the farmers to stop protesting?

tomtraubert

larryone wrote: »

It's not a new problem.
Young lads that are bored and stupid have been doing it for years.
It's new to that area tho, they never had a motorway to play with before.

Same thing has been happening on the Carlow bypass too...in june 09 there was nasty incident with a bag of flour being chucked off a bridge near castledermot

tomtraubert

placard wrote: »

The same resources if not more because of the poor road quality would have been required for the N9 had they not opened the M9 motorway. Not to mention that the N9 would have been statistically more dangerous in poor weather conditions.

These resources would have been required for the old N9 agreed but would not have to be shared with the new M9....plus the emergency services and area engineer staff would not have had an emergency plan in place to deal with a major pile up.

tomtraubert

placard wrote: »

Do you know what the compromise was to get the farmers to stop protesting?

As per the independent piece about it. KCC/NRA will agree a safety person/company with the IFA to review it and take it from there.

Seems fine when I drive it though

placard

tomtraubert wrote: »

These resources would have been required for the old N9 agreed but would not have to be shared with the new M9....plus the emergency services and area engineer staff would not have had an emergency plan in place to deal with a major pile up.

The N9 has been reassigned as a regional road so there is no sharing with the M9 for grit anyhow as the regional roads all over the country are covered in ice. The emergency services had plenty of time to come up with a plan for pile ups. Besides I'm sure there are standard procedures that they would have already outlined for this sort of thing.

tomtraubert

placard wrote: »

The N9 has been reassigned as a regional road so there is no sharing with the M9 for grit anyhow as the regional roads all over the country are covered in ice. The emergency services had plenty of time to come up with a plan for pile ups. Besides I'm sure there are standard procedures that they would have already outlined for this sort of thing.

They still would have been on the Council's maintenance schedule this is what the Area Engineer's issue was apparently, is that not what Charlie Talbot said. Re plan : not really

redtelephone

tomtraubert wrote: »

They still would have been on the Council's maintenance schedule this is what the Area Engineer's issue was apparently, is that not what Charlie Talbot said. Re plan : not really

I think the Area Engineer and Charlie Talbot should head up Gormley's Emergency Task Force. They apparently saw the big chill coming, even before Met Eireann did.

road_high

lotie wrote: »

Right all - bring you back to the road that isn't open; Waterford - Kilkenny!

There is an article in this week's Kilkenny People (by Tess Felder) quoting Kilkenny Co Co's Joe Gannon that this part of the road will open mid Feb. He blames the weather. The article also suggests (or Mr Gannon suggests) that the road will still be "delivered...well ahead of schedule". He does this by using the journalist's ignorance of the difference in the schemes to Knocktopher and from Knocktopher.

I suggest we harness the power of boards.ie to ensure that journalists such as this are educated on the facts in the delays inherent in the Waterford - Knocktopher scheme and not let the contractor or Kilkenny Co Co away with this misuse of language in claiming the road is well ahead of schedule!.

Please join me in emailing the Kilkenny People to put the record straight and to keep pressure on to get this road open ASAP!.

Would not be hard in fairness. The KK People never challenge KK coco on anything really. Didn't see the article myself but I can just imagine the kind of drivel that was written. It was probably more like a love in between the two rather than an explorative article into the scheme itself and why it has taken 3 years to complete 26km of motorway from Waterford to Knocktopher.
The reporter was no doubt oblivious to the different schemes as you say. Anyone with any level of eye for detail writing/researching an article on that road could find a wealth of info on the internet.

placard

The opening date on the NRA site for this scheme is now 1st quarter 2010. If the weather was preventing the application of the finishing top layer and the cold snap continues two months like it has been said on breakingnews.ie they will be hard pushed to get it finished by march.

fricatus

Contacted the project office for Waterford-Danesfort during the week and they say that the mid-February completion date is likely to be knocked back by whatever number of days the freeze-up continues.

I thought that most of the work now needing to be done is around Mullinavat, and given that that area is not too badly hit by snow, they could continue working. Then again, I've heard that there's a minimum temperature below which they absolutely cannot lay layers of tarmac.

As of yesterday, it's just up around Lukeswell where the snow cover begins in earnest, and crossing the bridge at Danesfort, you could see of course where the central barrier runs, but you couldn't actually see the barrier itself! :eek:

Geogregor

fricatus wrote: »

As of yesterday, it's just up around Lukeswell where the snow cover begins in earnest, and crossing the bridge at Danesfort, you could see of course where the central barrier runs, but you couldn't actually see the barrier itself! :eek:

Any pictures of snowy Ireland?

Wild Bill

Geogregor wrote: »

Any pictures of snowy Ireland?

Yes, but sadly not of the M9.

Drove to KK the other day and back. On the way down it was sunny and the scenery was breathtaking. Camera battery was flat as a week old beer!

Max temp in KK never exceeded -4C despite the sun. On the way back it was -9C from Carlow to the M7, with patches of dense fog.

Traffic never dropped below a steady 80kph and there was enough grip in slightly snowy fast lane to pass the odd biddy crawling along.

The journey would have been at 10kph at best on the old road.

Always look on the bright side.......etc!

road_high

fricatus wrote: »

Contacted the project office for Waterford-Danesfort during the week and they say that the mid-February completion date is likely to be knocked back by whatever number of days the freeze-up continues.

I thought that most of the work now needing to be done is around Mullinavat, and given that that area is not too badly hit by snow, they could continue working. Then again, I've heard that there's a minimum temperature below which they absolutely cannot lay layers of tarmac.

As of yesterday, it's just up around Lukeswell where the snow cover begins in earnest, and crossing the bridge at Danesfort, you could see of course where the central barrier runs, but you couldn't actually see the barrier itself! :eek:

I think "any excuse" as usual. The weather being the most convienent one over the past year, all the time. Kilkenny coco prob don't want to end up having to girt/salt the motorway either in addition to their already stretched resources.

Chris_533976

No, you actually cant drop tar below about 3 degrees. Same with concrete. I dont know what happens, but its rubbish if you put it down in this weather. Cant blame any of them for delaying in this weather.

Kellzer

Water starts expanding if you go below 4 degrees and this leads to cracking of the concrete if you pour in cold conditions. In countries like Canada that are used to cold weather they use boiling water and heaters to keep the temperature up but this wouldn't be practical here given the short-term nature of the problem. Im a structural engineer and as a general rule engineering consultancies wont allow a pour to go ahead if the temperature is less than 4degrees and falling.

placard

Before the cold sneeze the reason given for the delay of progress on the M9 WD to KK was the weather. Every project is different but I think when compared to the Kilcullen to Carlow project the weather was not the difference.

road_high

placard wrote: »

Before the cold sneeze the reason given for the delay of progress on the M9 WD to KK was the weather. Every project is different but I think when compared to the Kilcullen to Carlow project the weather was not the difference.

Yes. The same excuse is trotted out as regular as the (ahem!) weather
Funny they got the same weather 30 miles up the road but it opened nearly a month ago now. Yet started construction a year later. Just do not add up to me.

placard

I know they had problems with the water drainage at Mullinavat, some rework on the blackwater bridge and an embankment collapsing. The drainage issue at Mullinavat wouldn't have been half as bad as the problems currently on the M7 so why the long delay of what will be a year by the time it opens?

wellbutty

They also had a very hush-hush 18-month dispute with Iarnroid Eireann who were looking for an insane amount of compensation for allowing BAM to use their land.

They left go a ridiculous number of staff as well, too many in fact!

Dum_Dum

Average of 26 metres a day. Don't blink or you'll miss them.

Geogregor

Kellzer wrote: »

Water starts expanding if you go below 4 degrees and this leads to cracking of the concrete if you pour in cold conditions. In countries like Canada that are used to cold weather they use boiling water and heaters to keep the temperature up but this wouldn't be practical here given the short-term nature of the problem. Im a structural engineer and as a general rule engineering consultancies wont allow a pour to go ahead if the temperature is less than 4degrees and falling.

In Poland they also use chemical additives which allow pouring in lower temperatures.

placard

wellbutty wrote: »

They also had a very hush-hush 18-month dispute with Iarnroid Eireann who were looking for an insane amount of compensation for allowing BAM to use their land.

Any idea if it was resolved? Did they have to pay a ridiculous amount of money to Iarnroid Eireann?

kieranb07

placard wrote: »

I know they had problems with the water drainage at Mullinavat, some rework on the blackwater bridge and an embankment collapsing. The drainage issue at Mullinavat wouldn't have been half as bad as the problems currently on the M7 so why the long delay of what will be a year by the time it opens?

Personally i think that the reason it has been delayed so much is that they got the contract for building the Waterford by-pass which included a TOLL Bridge (ie: money machine) they transfered most of there resources off of the WD2KK By-Pass so that they could complete the toll bridge 9months early, even though the land on one side of the bridge sank by nearly 1ft when they were laying the road on it and had to stop and re-enforce it and start over which would have been a major delay, all in order to start raking in the money quicker (they have the rights to all the money from the tolls on the bridge until 2020/22)
Plus as Wellbutty said "They left go a ridiculous number of staff as well, too many in fact"

also from what i hear Roadbridge are way ahead of schedule on the knocktopher to Powerstown section, so far that there is a good chance that it will be open around the same time as BAM's WD2KK section...lol

Bards

kieranb07 wrote: »

Personally i think that the reason it has been delayed so much is that they got the contract for building the Waterford by-pass which included a TOLL Bridge (ie: money machine) they transfered most of there resources off of the WD2KK By-Pass so that they could complete the toll bridge 9months early, even though the land on one side of the bridge sank by nearly 1ft when they were laying the road on it and had to stop and re-enforce it and start over which would have been a major delay, all in order to start raking in the money quicker (they have the rights to all the money from the tolls on the bridge until 2020/22)
Plus as Wellbutty said "They left go a ridiculous number of staff as well, too many in fact"

also from what i hear Roadbridge are way ahead of schedule on the knocktopher to Powerstown section, so far that there is a good chance that it will be open around the same time as BAM's WD2KK section...lol

So many inaccuracies in this post.

Firstly even before CRG (Which Bam are only 33.33% Shareholder, NTR & Dragados being the remaining 66.66%) was awarded the contract for the WCB the estimated build time was somewhere between 36 & 42 months. The DoT/NRA added another 12 months when the contract was announced so that they could claim the contract came in early - even though from October 2009 CRG were going to be hit with penalties for every day the contract ran over.

Secondly the Toll Franchise for the WCB is 30 years from date of award of contract (April 2006) Therefore the expiry of the Toll franchise is 2036

The Waterford to Knocktopher section of the M9 was awarded to Ascon (Now BAM) in February 2007. Co-Incidently the Carlow bypass was also built by Ascon (Bam) from Aug 2006 through to May 2008. Don't forget WCB was under construction at this time and yet the Carlow bypass came in ahead of schedule.

AFAIK the Carlow Bypass was handled out of the Kill office, whereas the Waterford to Knocktopher section is handled by the Cork office of Bam

I personally balme poor project management/ Unlucky weather patterns coupled with changelling ground conditions/geography for the delay - I do not buy into conspiricy theories.

kieranb07

Bards wrote: »

So many inaccuracies in this post.

Firstly even before CRG (Which Bam are only 33.33% Shareholder, NTR & Dragados being the remaining 66.66%) was awarded the contract for the WCB the estimated build time was somewhere between 36 & 42 months. The DoT/NRA added another 12 months when the contract was announced so that they could claim the contract came in early - even though from October 2009 CRG were going to be hit with penalties for every day the contract ran over.

Secondly the Toll Franchise for the WCB is 30 years from date of award of contract (April 2006) Therefore the expiry of the Toll franchise is 2036

The Waterford to Knocktopher section of the M9 was awarded to Ascon (Now BAM) in February 2007. Co-Incidently the Carlow bypass was also built by Ascon (Bam) from Aug 2006 through to May 2008. Don't forget WCB was under construction at this time and yet the Carlow bypass came in ahead of schedule.

AFAIK the Carlow Bypass was handled out of the Kill office, whereas the Waterford to Knocktopher section is handled by the Cork office of Bam

I personally balme poor project management/ Unlucky weather patterns coupled with changelling ground conditions/geography for the delay - I do not buy into conspiricy theories.

Thanks Bards,
I was going to just ask the question's to get these answers, but didnt think anyone would be bothered answering boring questions, so said id put up what i thought from hear-say were the answers to my questions, and see if someone would reply with the facts...
Great answers by the way,
Sorry if i annoyed you though

fricatus

I saw orange temporary signs up this morning at Danesfort indicating "N10 Dublin - Carlow", so I assume the plan once Waterford-Danesfort opens is just to have the traffic all go via Kilkenny rather than messing about with Knocktopher and Thomastown.

Let's hope for settled weather from now on, so that they can get the thing open before the end of February.

Bards

fricatus wrote: »

I saw orange temporary signs up this morning at Danesfort indicating "N10 Dublin - Carlow", so I assume the plan once Waterford-Danesfort opens is just to have the traffic all go via Kilkenny rather than messing about with Knocktopher and Thomastown.

Let's hope for settled weather from now on, so that they can get the thing open before the end of February.

Yes, that would be the best plan, a far safer road too compared to the road through thomastown.

I would definately go N10 via Kilkenny ring road and then onto paulstown via N10 before joining M9 at Powerstown - maybe longer distance wise but much better road

It would be far more dangerous to get off at Knocktopher to go N9 to Paulstown via Thomastown/Dungarvan/Gowran

road_high

fricatus wrote: »

Let's hope for settled weather from now on, so that they can get the thing open before the end of February.

Let's not hope too much as we all know what happened before...first it was Spring 2009. Then Aug/Sept. That became Dec 09...and that became mid-Feb :rolleyes:. So perhaps 4th time lucky this time!

Tech3

Hows the link road N10 to Kilkenny going from J8? Also which road would ye take when complete, the N10 off J8 or J9 to Waterford?

hi5

tech2 wrote: »

Hows the link road N10 to Kilkenny going from J8? Also which road would ye take when complete, the N10 off J8 or J9 to Waterford?

Very little progress lately,still no tar down,but the bridges are up,the new roundabout near the Hebron/ringroad seems finished and both roundabouts are linked by 2 lanes each way.