M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

BluntGuy

mfitzy wrote: »

Seems a strange way to build a road to me. Have sections that are almost totally finished and could be opened very soon and then other section just down the road which have lots of work and earth moving yet to be done. Particularly around junctions and overbridges.

Actually, that's not surprising in the least.

Considering that overbridges and junctions have to be built before pavement can be built underneath them, it makes sense.

fricatus

mfitzy wrote: »

p.s. the current N9/10 between KK and Waterford is in a shocking condition (drove some of it yesterday). The surface is abysmal in some places, particularly south of Ballyhale. Beware anybody driving it, there are huge crater like potholes in places (worse in than usual for the N9) right on that bad bend leaving Ballyhale going south there is a huge one and in the middle of the road at the next railway bridge.
They are massive and very dangerous . I have low profile tyres (on my nice Volvo S40 ) and would definitely have been destroyed (again) had I hit them at high speed.

I presume it's KK county council under NRA direction have responsibility for the surface? Shame on them. I know funds are v tight but a few chippings and tar would not be too much to ask? Or maybe they are not spending a penny with the new M9 opening soon.

KK County Council have never paid much attention to the N9. I think a couple of hundred metres around Jerpoint were realigned back around 1990, a bit of the road near Dungarvan was resurfaced around 7-8 years ago, and beyond that, it's been the odd bit of tar and loose chippings here and there.

It's bad enough that we're still basically driving a winding country road (with huge lorries constantly coming against you just feet away on the other side), but as mfitzy says, the surface has been allowed to deteriorate to an alarming extent. The only other road I can remember driving that was so bumpy and undulating was a bit of the N3 around Virginia, Co Cavan.

As well as that, the drainage is shocking. There are practically rivers running across it when it rains (between Lukeswell and the wide overtaking section near Ballyhale). I have often been forced to slow to 50-60 km/h because I'm blind from trucks splashing me on the other side. And whatever about me in my car, God help anyone on a motorbike!

South of Mullinavat (the bit that's like a roller-coaster), there are huge puddles that gather at the side of the road closer to the railway. You've to slow down for these too, because the road is too narrow to move out and avoid them if there's anything coming the other way. Hard shoulder? What hard shoulder?

I've never seen a busy road as shockingly bad as the N9, anywhere.

road_high

I often drive it but the surface quality was truly shocking now in places. There is no excuse for the likes of those two crater like potholes near Ballyhale. There were several loos hubcaps on the roadside beside it. Surely a tell tale sign of damaged tyres.
I know we have had a very bad winter for road surfaces.

The only consolation is looking at the lovely new M9 sweep over this cart track at Lukeswell. Can't open a day too soon.

road_high

Fricatus, you mention the section south of Mullinavat but I find the surface north of Mullinnavat even worse, the relatively striaght bit. It's completely rubbish now. All those trucks have it ripped apart.

road_high

fricatus wrote: »

KK County Council have never paid much attention to the N9. I think a couple of hundred metres around Jerpoint were realigned back around 1990, a bit of the road near Dungarvan was resurfaced around 7-8 years ago, and beyond that, it's been the odd bit of tar and loose chippings here and there.

It's bad enough that we're still basically driving a winding country road (with huge lorries constantly coming against you just feet away on the other side), but as mfitzy says, the surface has been allowed to deteriorate to an alarming extent. The only other road I can remember driving that was so bumpy and undulating was a bit of the N3 around Virginia, Co Cavan.

As well as that, the drainage is shocking. There are practically rivers running across it when it rains (between Lukeswell and the wide overtaking section near Ballyhale). I have often been forced to slow to 50-60 km/h because I'm blind from trucks splashing me on the other side. And whatever about me in my car, God help anyone on a motorbike!

South of Mullinavat (the bit that's like a roller-coaster), there are huge puddles that gather at the side of the road closer to the railway. You've to slow down for these too, because the road is too narrow to move out and avoid them if there's anything coming the other way. Hard shoulder? What hard shoulder?

I've never seen a busy road as shockingly bad as the N9, anywhere.

The surface of the N9 between Paulstown-Ballyhale is actuallly quite good right now, they resurfaced a good lot of it the last few years. It's the N9 south of Ballyhale and parts of the N10 between Danesfort and Knocktopher that are woeful.
The street surfaces through Stoneyford & Knocktopher are in bits right now.
I dread to think what will happen when it becomes an R road. It will be left to fester and become overgrown I wonder?
But saying that, the R roads in county Kilkenny are actually quite reasonable compared to some of our neighbours (I'm thinking Laois and Nrth Tipp in particular).

Carawaystick

murphaph wrote: »

Yeah Roadbridge deserve credit. They do nice tidy jobs with little or no sloppiness. I think they did the elegant Arklow Bypass as well IIRC.

I'm fairly sure it was Ascon built that. but it was opened a long way ahead of schedule.

Amtmann

Can someone tell me what these are:

road_high

Are they outside Waterford on the new bypass? Think I saw them before and was wondering the exact same.

Bards

The lower one in the middle (Structure No. 22) will be carring the City bypass mainline (N25) over marsh land towards New Ross. The two upper ones (structures 20 & 21) come from the GS Roundabout (Grannagh Junction) and merge with the lower middle one (Structure 23)

Edit:
http://www.waterfordcity.ie/n25bypass/gallery/large/gr30_large.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc01068medium.jpg

Amtmann

mfitzy, yes, they are quite close to the temporary set up for the N24 and N9 roundabouts.

Bards, so they will carry carriageways? I didn't have a chance to stop at all, but they seemed quite narrow. I guess they're not close to done yet.

EDIT: Ah, thanks for adding the image. Fantastic website.

BluntGuy

Ah yes, those must be the red-beams I saw when I walked up onto the site...

I thought they were for a railway or something...

road_high

There is a good picture of the end of the M9 at Waterford on the Waterford city forum too. Gives a very good picture of how inadequate an at-grade roundabout is there unfortunately.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/498/dsc01068medium.jpg

Amtmann

I'm very curious to find out what AADT the Waterford Bypass will take. CRG, the company building it, obviously considers it worthwhile, but there's no way it will be as busy as the N25 Cork South Ring Road - though, of course, the WB will be far more impressive. I hadn't been to Waterford in about three years, but I passed through today coming from Cork. I cleared the city in a few minutes!

road_high

Furet wrote: »

I'm very curious to find out what AADT the Waterford Bypass will take. CRG, the company building it, obviously considers it worthwhile, but there's no way it will be as busy as the N25 Cork South Ring Road - though, of course, the WB will be far more impressive. I hadn't been to Waterford in about three years, but I passed through today coming from Cork. I cleared the city in a few minutes!

Depends on the time of day. I can see it being very busy. For instance I would not go to Waterford right now unless I had to, espec at peak times because of the difficulty in accessing it easily. And throw in a bridge lift and you could be stuck for ages.
There is a lot of lost traffic and business to Waterford for this very reason.

Bards

mfitzy wrote: »

Depends on the time of day. I can see it being very busy. For instance I would not go to Waterford right now unless I had to, espec at peak times because of the difficulty in accessing it easily. And throw in a bridge lift and you could be stuck for ages.
There is a lot of lost traffic and business to Waterford for this very reason.

often taken me over an hour to get from Redbridge to Ardkeen area during peak hours

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'm fairly sure it was Ascon built that. but it was opened a long way ahead of schedule.

Ascon did a decent, fast enough job on their M6 scheme(s?) also; seem to be two competent road building firms in the country at least.

fricatus

Furet wrote: »

I'm very curious to find out what AADT the Waterford Bypass will take. CRG, the company building it, obviously considers it worthwhile

I think the EIS mentioned 18,000 but I don't know whether that was for day 1 or some sort of future projection. Rice Bridge is currently at 44,000 IIRC.

Furet wrote: »

there's no way it will be as busy as the N25 Cork South Ring Road - though, of course, the WB will be far more impressive.

Cork SRR is about 66,000 isn't it? At least they had the good sense not to toll the tunnel. That way the traffic is encouraged out of the city. There will be a toll on the new bridge in Waterford, which will only serve to discourage commuters from using the new ring road. Stupid in the extreme. :mad:

By the way, what does WB mean?

Furet wrote: »

I hadn't been to Waterford in about three years, but I passed through today coming from Cork. I cleared the city in a few minutes!

What did you expect on Easter Monday?

I suggest you try 3/4 p.m. on a Tuesday in early October next time. Although with a bit of luck, by next October the ring road will be open!

Amtmann

fricatus wrote: »

By the way, what does WB mean?

Waterford Bypass

road_high

Well if 44,000 are using Rice Bridge daily I think then it's fairly safe to assume that traffic volumes on the new N25 bypass will be more than healthy relative to the investment undetaken.

Amtmann

I've heard estimates ranging from the 20,000 per day mark to less than 11,000. I *think* Bards said a while back that it would be 10,000. (Sorry if that wasn't you Bards.)

Chris_533976

fricatus wrote: »

Cork SRR is about 66,000 isn't it? At least they had the good sense not to toll the tunnel. That way the traffic is encouraged out of the city. There will be a toll on the new bridge in Waterford, which will only serve to discourage commuters from using the new ring road. Stupid in the extreme. :mad:

They tried tolling the Lee Tunnel but they were quite nicely told where to shove it by Europe. They're still talking about it, but theres no space for a tolling arrangement anyway (water on one side, Mahon Point on the other). They wont do an M50 barrier free job either as it would be too much effort.

Bards

Furet wrote: »

I've heard estimates ranging from the 20,000 per day mark to less than 11,000. I *think* Bards said a while back that it would be 10,000. (Sorry if that wasn't you Bards.)

The original EIS did state something like 10,000 AADT per day (year 1999) rising to 40,000 AADT in the design year (2025)

Bear in mind when the original EIS was done the Outer Ring Road was not construcuted, so this will have an impact on traffic flows to/from Grannagh Interchange to Western Link Junction

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/n25bypass/files/Environment%20Impact%20Statement%20NTS4.pdf

Amtmann

Would people have preferred a tolled section of M9 to a tolled bypass? I agree that tolling the N25 isn't an ideal situation.

Bards

Furet wrote: »

Would people have preferred a tolled section of M9 to a tolled bypass? I agree that tolling the N25 isn't an ideal situation.

neither. Tolled N11 would have been preferable:D

The N9 is in such a dreadful state it is not a good alternative toll free road.

However, out of the two options, I think the N25 is a better choice considering where the toll booth is located, it gives plenty of non tolled movements.

fricatus

Bards wrote: »

neither. Tolled N11 would have been preferable:D

The N9 is in such a dreadful state it is not a good alternative toll free road.

However, out of the two options, I think the N25 is a better choice considering where the toll booth is located, it gives plenty of non tolled movements.

I disagree. I'd take an M9 toll in place of an N25 toll any day. It makes more sense to pay a toll occasionally to drive a long distance, rather than having commuters pay a daily toll to use a high-capacity road, when they can use a lower-capacity road through the old city for free. Like I said before, stupid... :rolleyes:

mysterious

Bards wrote: »

The original EIS did state something like 10,000 AADT per day (year 1999) rising to 40,000 AADT in the design year (2025)

Bear in mind when the original EIS was done the Outer Ring Road was not construcuted, so this will have an impact on traffic flows to/from Grannagh Interchange to Western Link Junction

http://www.waterfordcity.ie/n25bypass/files/Environment%20Impact%20Statement%20NTS4.pdf

Bear in mind, The EIS and the planners were building the Outer ring road as part of it :rolleyes: As the Outer ring road leads onto it.....

The figures are correct.

mysterious

fricatus wrote: »

I disagree. I'd take an M9 toll in place of an N25 toll any day. It makes more sense to pay a toll occasionally to drive a long distance, rather than having commuters pay a daily toll to use a high-capacity road, when they can use a lower-capacity road through the old city for free. Like I said before, stupid... :rolleyes:

Yes I don't like the idea of tolling bypasses.

M9 would be far better option for tolling, but then again the government would get pittance money in return for it. Oh well. It's all about the money.

Bards

mysterious wrote: »

Bear in mind, The EIS and the planners were building the Outer ring road as part of it :rolleyes: As the Outer ring road leads onto it.....

The figures are correct.

No. the ORR was never part of the City Bypass

Money came from Dept of Environment Strategic roads fund.

Typewriter

Furet wrote: »

Would people have preferred a tolled section of M9 to a tolled bypass? I agree that tolling the N25 isn't an ideal situation.

I would for sure.

The bypass will be a failure, nobody will use it unless they are very late or bored.

People are used to the traffic and have timed there journey around it for years. Its so close to the existing bridge, which leads directly into town and is free, compare it to the bypass which is going to cost you €1.90 each way and leave you at the far end of the outer ring road on the other side of Waterford and having to negotiate a sires of monotonous roundabouts while driving at a max speed of 60kmph.

Think of someone who's coming from the Kilkenny side working in Waterford? Which way would they go?

For me, who lives in Ardkeen (at the city end of the ring road) and commutes to Wexford town every weekday, using the bypass would invole me driving the whole lenth of the ring road (with all its roundabouts), then onto the bypass, paying the toll then conecting back onto the N25 (via another roundabout).

By the time thats all over i would have been better if i had just gone through town + I'd be €1.90 better off.

If there was no toll I wouldn't mind.

Bards

green_jesus wrote: »

I would for sure.

The bypass will be a failure, nobody will use it unless they are very late or bored.

People are used to the traffic and have timed there journey around it for years. Its so close to the existing bridge, which leads directly into town and is free, compare it to the bypass which is going to cost you €1.90 each way and leave you at the far end of the outer ring road on the other side of Waterford and having to negotiate a sires of monotonous roundabouts while driving at a max speed of 60kmph.

Think of someone who's coming from the Kilkenny side working in Waterford? Which way would they go?

For me, who lives in Ardkeen (at the city end of the ring road) and commutes to Wexford town every weekday, using the bypass would invole me driving the whole lenth of the ring road (with all its roundabouts), then onto the bypass, paying the toll then conecting back onto the N25 (via another roundabout).

By the time thats all over i would have been better if i had just gone through town + I'd be €1.90 better off.

If there was no toll I wouldn't mind.

Even with the no toll people from the Ardkeen/Dunmore road area would still use Rice Bridge to get to Kilkenny/Wexford as it is quicker.

This road is a bypass I,.E It is a road for people to bypass Waterford, not to go into the City. I.E through traffic on the Cork Rosslare route.