M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

Chris_5339762

Its the M8 that shouldnt have been built as-is.

M8 should go Cork - Mitchelstown - Cahir - Kilkenny (approx) and join with the M9 there, which would itself go down to Waterford.

Stark

I remember seeing a proposal years ago actually to have it go Tullamore->Birr->Nenagh->Mitchelstown with the motorway branching off for Galway at Birr, and Limerick at Nenagh.

(Not sure what Cowen's ministry was at the time).

The Kilkenny->Cahir->Mitchelstown route does sound like it would have been a very good solution to serving the needs of everyone in a cost effective manner alright. (Cue cries of "but what about Urlingford?").

invinciblePRSTV

Just admit it lads and we'll leave the issue lie, the M9 is a waste and duplication of resources which would have been better served being spent elsewhere, cry troll all you like if you want to bury your head in the sand but that's how it is.

Even parochial Waterford folk will concede the folly of having a tolled bypass which seems likely to crash and burn with regards to it's projected AADTs whilst a shiny new Motorway is being built with 2 Motorways running parallel either side of it.

The M9 is an indictment of all that was wrong with government policy during the "boom" years.

coolperson05

Be that as it may, and I don't really agree because the old road couldn't have been upgraded so a new road was needed and they may aswell built a motorway than any other type of road, it is 80% complete and we should be concentrating on when the final section will open! For people like myself, the M9 is part of my weekly routine!

JohnC.

The bypass and its toll has nothing to do with the M9.

johnbk

I use the new M9 every day and am delighted that the road has been built.

The cost I reckon is 118 km (on TomTom) x €8m per km = €944 Million. The link roads to Athy and Kilkenny are somewhat superfluous, the link road into Kilkenny is 5 km longer than it needed to be (It could have finished at the existing N10), the cost saved here could have extended the Kilkenny ring road to the Freshford road, I’m sure this would have been more beneficial to Kilkenny. Surely the trumpet junction should be in Waterford and not in Kilkenny, its capacity is far more than will ever be required for a town/city the size of Kilkenny.

I am certain that at least one motorway too many has been built to the south of the country. Also the motorways that have been built will put our railways under severe pressure from competing bus companies (the Limerick-Galway line springs to mind).

Knowbody listens anyway so there is little point complaining. I suggested (And so did others) at the start of the initial planning of the new A5 Monaghan to Derry route that they should have considered a west of the Foyle route which could have served as a route from Lifford to Letterkenny as well as Derry and also replacing the N13 Derry-Letterkenny route but it was dismissed and not even considered.

Anyway, I am certainly not complaining about the M9, I am delighted to have at and it will save me loads of time everyday as well as being so much safer, plus I don’t have to pay any tolls.

Jayuu

Kahless wrote: »

The bypass and its toll has nothing to do with the M9.

Absolutely. A complete straw man. I also happen to agree that the N25 shouldn't have been tolled but that has nothing to do with the rationale behind the M9.

The fact is that Waterford is the fifth biggest population centre in the Republic. Kilkenny and Carlow feature in the Top 15. The idea that a road linking all three of them to Dublin can't be justified in the context of what was built is complete rubbish. (And actually once the current network is finished there will be a motorway close to every town in the Top 15 bar Tralee.)

Yes, you can go back to the very beginning and argue about the whole motorway network as to whether they should have been built completely along new routes or as we did to shadow the existing route network. But once that decision was made then a clear case can be made for a Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford corridor.

As for the fact that money could have been spent on other projects such as the M20 well I would suggest that the M18 and M3 are of less strategic importance that the M9.

frankie2shoes

Having driven the old dublin waterford road for many years I'm delighted to see this project nearing completion. The old road was a death trap. Motorways are safer by far.
what price a life?

Wild Bill

Seems to be a bit of envy around less fortunate parts of the country (ie - outside Leinster) about the magnificent M9.

As a Dub, I'd ignore the green-eyed monsters .

Also some geographically challenged folk claimed the M3 past Navan (Pop: 40,000) is not justified while the road to Sligo (Population 20,000) isn't DC standard all the way.

The M3 is the first leg of the Dublin to Letterkenny/Derry (Population 100,000) motorway. Notice how the terminal junction of the motorway at Kells is designed to allow an extension?

W.B. Yeats

After reading the paper this morning I'd say the future for a toll free M9 is bleak.......:(

Cuauhtemoc

After reading the paper this morning I'd say the future for a toll free M9 is bleak.......

I thought i read here somewhere that it is tolled in some fashion.
Aren't the PPP scheme builders paid by average traffic volumes or something on roads that have no toll booths?
Or am i talking nonsense



C.

Cool Mo D

Wild Bill wrote: »

The M3 is the first leg of the Dublin to Letterkenny/Derry (Population 100,000) motorway. Notice how the terminal junction of the motorway at Kells is designed to allow an extension?

No, it is not. The N3 goes to southern Donegal. The road to Derry is the N2, which continues in the North as the A5. The Irish government is part paying for the A5 to be dualled, so they clearly intend for the N2 to remain the Derry road.

If the road to Derry is going to be all dual-carriageway, the most likely route is adding an extra carriageway along the N33 from the M1, and then along the northern part of the N2.

W.B. Yeats

Cuauhtemoc wrote: »

I thought i read here somewhere that it is tolled in some fashion.
Aren't the PPP scheme builders paid by average traffic volumes or something on roads that have no toll booths?
Or am i talking nonsense



C.

No toll on the motorway as it currently stands

marmurr1916

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

No toll on the motorway as it currently stands

Read my thread on tolls for national roads and changes (i.e increases) to road tax.

If they're going to start tolling national routes, how long do you think it'll be before the introduction of tolls on the M9?

W.B. Yeats

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Read my thread on tolls for national roads and changes (i.e increases) to road tax.

If they're going to start tolling national routes, how long do you think it'll be before the introduction of tolls on the M9?

See my original post 4 up on this page
My point exactly: M9 will be first to be tolled if they are going to consider tolling national routes.
Pretty poor decision to be honest
I commute 70 miles each way, there is no real alternative to driving that would be anywhere comparable in journey time.

kingjohn

Can we set aside the debate on the numbers using the new road and can we have volunteers to take photos over the weekend of the last remaining unopened section from carlow to danesford? It surely cannot be long now? Can this section be opened before the kilkenny link road?

Cuauhtemoc

W.B. Yeats wrote: »

No toll on the motorway as it currently stands

I think this is what i'd meant from a post by Marmurr1916 Here

No you won't have to pay a toll.
Only certain PPP schemes will be tolled, the rest will either be untolled or will have shadow tolls, based on traffic volumes etc, payable by the government directly to the contractors.

However, road users won't pay any toll on shadow toll schemes.

PPP doesn't automatically equal toll.

So none of the M9 is shadow tolled then. Was wondering could the government put there own tollbridge on a shadow tolled motorway.

C.

Wild Bill

Cool Mo D wrote: »

No, it is not. The N3 goes to southern Donegal. The road to Derry is the N2, which continues in the North as the A5. The Irish government is part paying for the A5 to be dualled, so they clearly intend for the N2 to remain the Derry road.

If the road to Derry is going to be all dual-carriageway, the most likely route is adding an extra carriageway along the N33 from the M1, and then along the northern part of the N2.

Nah. Navan - Cavan - Enniskillen - Letterkenny. :cool:

mali3434

Thanks, it's very helpful.

redtelephone

I think a few figures might help. For the record Waterford's population in the last (2006) census was 49,213 including suburbs the 5th largest centre of population. Although it's the smallest, it was the second fastest growing city in the country after Galway.
Kilkenny (13th largest centre of population) 22,179; Carlow (14th largest) 20,724; Athy (50th largest) 8,218. This gives a total of 100,334 for the larger population centres served by the M9.

Waterford26

well.. M9 was an perfect idea.. but where the hell are petrol station where we can get some gas and fooooooood??? ..every 20-30kms on motorways abroad(france, germany etc)..but no one in Ireland

L1011

You're not going to find many petrol stations selling LPG anywhere

Waterford26

mean petrol or diesel ofcourse..not LPG . Toilets, food, shop.. dont want to waste my time to looking for some petrol station in villages around

L1011

There's plans for a single MSA on the M9 around Kilcullen IIRC

The N9 route south of Carlow was terribly served anyway. Southbound you had Topaz in Gowran, nothing in Thomastown, the shop on the main street in Ballyhale and nothing to Waterford. Northbound there's two in Thomastown over this. Most of the stations on route had closed down well in advance of the M9 opening - even the huge one outside Waterford!

coolperson05

Clearly this is where private companies should step in and reap the benefits! One just at Danesfort would be minted!

Waterford26

we will see.. but minimum one needs to be open there.really necessarily! .. if they'll be more than 0ne, i'll be happy

jd

Tim gets it wrong here. The existing toll is on the N25 Suir bridge

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0726/1224275468010.html

NEW TOLLS on Dublin’s M50, a second toll on the Dublin to Waterford motorway and a handful of tolls in the midlands and west are to be considered under Government plans to raise additional revenue from roads.
..
The M9 is to be the only one of the State’s inter-urban motorways that has just one toll – that on the Suir bridge close to Waterford city – when all the motorways are completed this year.

hi5

Theres a decent enough petrol station in Knocktopher,I'm sure its only a matter of time before we see the loophole trailer sign in some farmers field pointing this out.

Sully

hi5 wrote: »

Theres a decent enough petrol station in Knocktopher,I'm sure its only a matter of time before we see the loophole trailer sign in some farmers field pointing this out.

There being made illegal afaik.

Sully

MYOB wrote: »

There's plans for a single MSA on the M9 around Kilcullen IIRC

The N9 route south of Carlow was terribly served anyway. Southbound you had Topaz in Gowran, nothing in Thomastown, the shop on the main street in Ballyhale and nothing to Waterford. Northbound there's two in Thomastown over this. Most of the stations on route had closed down well in advance of the M9 opening - even the huge one outside Waterford!

What do you mean by "nothing to Waterford"? Petrol station wise from Ballyhale like? Waterford is well served in the city with 24hour petrol stations and shops thankfully, but its not much good on the Dub-Wat route that you only get something when you arrive :P

Whats the huge one outside Waterford tho?