M9 - Waterford motorway construction updates

Stark

tharlear wrote: »

It's a long road to not allow overtaking on.


How many km?

I,ve been on on-ramps in the US that are 1.5 to 2 miles long. But normally if its more than a mile they make it a HCDC that dead ends into the motorway

Do you think it should be HCDC?

It's 6.5km in length. It was originally meant to be motorway but those plans were scaled back.

tharlear

I suppose its all relative, but 6.5km with no over taking is a small price to pay to prevent head on collisions and uturns.


Also with a barrier in place it would look more like a motorway and might make an upgrade in the future more acceptable, to the greens and the bypass walking/jogging idiots .

Wild Bill

Stark wrote: »

It's motorway by default by virtue of leading inescapably to motorway. They're just not signing it that way.

Nah. It is a motorway only if it is designated a motorway. It is merely like a motorway in terms of it's characteristics.

Sorry to be pedantic.

Not !

L1011

Wild Bill wrote: »

Nah. It is a motorway only if it is designated a motorway. It is merely like a motorway in terms of it's characteristics.

Sorry to be pedantic.

Not !

You're pedantically wrong, Stark is the one pedantically right.

Its actually nothing like a motorway in characteristics (being a single carriageway road!), but it is one - due to it leading inescapably to one. That is all that matters.

Wild Bill

MYOB wrote: »

You're pedantically wrong, Stark is the one pedantically right.

Its actually nothing like a motorway in characteristics (being a single carriageway road!), but it is one - due to it leading inescapably to one. That is all that matters.

Nope. It not only isn't all that matters, it doesn't matter at all. If it ain't designated a motorway it ain't one.

The motorway characteristics I referred was restricted access - there are single carriageway motorways in various countries.

D.L.R.

In addition, while it is not illegal to perform a u-turn at a safe location and subject to the road markings at that location, a vehicle on the link road wishing to return to Kilkenny rather than enter the motorway could make the u-turn. We would not encourage this though, hence the advisory signs not to use the road other than for motorway access. No turn around facilities are being provided for non motorway traffic.

Jaysus, why even mention u turns?!?!

why go to the trouble of signing this:

"this leads to a motorway even though it isn't a restricted road, so no u-turns now you cheeky fellows. remember now, although its not a motorway, it does follow all motorway rules"

instead of just this:

"motorway"

stupid country, always with function following form. its like a type of collective OCD

tharlear

Jaysus, why even mention u turns?!?!

why go to the trouble of signing this:

"this leads to a motorway even though it isn't a restricted road, so no u-turns now you cheeky fellows. remember now, although its not a motorway, it does follow all motorway rules"

instead of just this:

"motorway"

stupid country, always with function following form. its like a type of collective OCD

Beacuse it shoulds be a motorway!

Some f idiot will be doing a u-turn when he gets hit by a boy racer and they will take out the jogger and then auld one walking her dog. Then there will be a committee set up to decide if there should be and investigation into weather or not the CC should have request a meeting with the NRA to decide on the possibility of having a HCDC. The committe will exonerate everyone in the Dailo, NRA and CC and suggest that if the auld one's dog had not being barking at the jogger the accident would never have happened

L1011

Wild Bill wrote: »

Nope. It not only isn't all that matters, it doesn't matter at all. If it ain't designated a motorway it ain't one.

The motorway characteristics I referred was restricted access - there are single carriageway motorways in various countries.

The M9 is designated motorway

This is inescapably part of the M9

Hence it is motorway. Like the tiny stub of M32 we used to have.

Chris_5339762

I await the fights on OSM I reckon it'll be blue one day, green the next, etc etc.

Bodan

this is taken from the NRA's M9 Junction map



The n10 is not a motorway, it is not designed to motorway specifications. It is a link road, similar to the Athy link road and the n24 in Waterford. I really cant see any confusion in the matter.

jd

Bodan wrote: »

this is taken from the NRA's M9 Junction map



The n10 is not a motorway, it is not designed to motorway specifications. It is a link road, similar to the Athy link road and the n24 in Waterford. I really cant see any confusion in the matter.

The problem is that once you enter this road it leads inescapably to the M9. A motorway should have an alternative route. If you drive down this road (eg in a vehicle not capable of above 50 km/hr ) , there is no way you can avoid entering the motorway other than doing a u-turn . Look at the junction design carefully.

mackerski

Road-Hog wrote: »

To disignate a single carriageway road as a motorway would require a change in Legislation, which I doubt will be a top priority for the government any time soon

Can you quote the legislation that prevents it being designated motorway? There have been single-carriageway sections before, such as the western end of the original Maynooth Bypass. And plenty of similar cases in the UK.

Bodan

jd wrote: »

The problem is that once you enter this road it leads inescapably to the M9. A motorway should have an alternative route. If you drive down this road (eg in a vehicle not capable of above 50 km/hr ) , there is no way you can avoid entering the motorway other than doing a 2-turn . Look at the junction design carefully.

Your right , maybe they should have connected the link road up to the old n10. But as long as the motorway is well sign posted at the archersrath roundabout, i don't really see a problem.

The only roads which crosses its path are, the old n10 and lavistown park road. The NRA clearly decided it wasn't worthwhile connecting them for whatever reason.

mackerski

Bodan wrote: »

Your right , maybe they should have connected the link road up to the old n10. But as long as the motorway is well sign posted at the archersrath roundabout, i don't really see a problem.

The problem is one of precedent and expectation. Road safety relies in part on the following of patterns. Things are safer because everybody drives on the left. Things would be safer if people kept left and passed on the right like they are supposed to. If speed limit signs were variable in design, it would get pretty distracting and that would be dangerous.

And so to motorway status. International precedent has evolved that says that motorway status is a special thing that drivers should be alerted to before committing to following a motorway route. And the way you alert them to the commitment is a blue sign with chopsticks on it - pass the sign and you will be travelling on the motorway.

But for reasons of their own, that's not what the NRA is doing in this case. They are for the first time breaching an international precedent that up until now they have followed. It seems to be a matter of importance to them that this spur should be all-purpose road. What puzzles me is why they didn't build a turnback roundabout at the M9 connection point, which would have avoided all this messing.

tharlear

could this be a case of actually thinking ahead by the NRA. Could this be the first part of the leinster outer orbital route. Waterford m9 to kilkenny, killkenny to urlingford?:cool:

Chris_5339762

mackerski wrote: »

But for reasons of their own, that's not what the NRA is doing in this case. They are for the first time breaching an international precedent that up until now they have followed. It seems to be a matter of importance to them that this spur should be all-purpose road. What puzzles me is why they didn't build a turnback roundabout at the M9 connection point, which would have avoided all this messing.

Or just classify it as a spur of the M9, removing the need for the N10 here at all.

Wild Bill

MYOB wrote: »

The M9 is designated motorway

This is inescapably part of the M9

Hence it is motorway. Like the tiny stub of M32 we used to have.

Well, I'm aware of the fact that I shouldn't be always trying to get the last word in even though I'm right - so I'll ask "whatever happened to the M32"?

Ooops! Don't reply 'cos this is the M9 thread with N10 extensions.

Jayuu

Wild Bill wrote: »

Well, I'm aware of the fact that I shouldn't be always trying to get the last word in even though I'm right - so I'll ask "whatever happened to the M32"?

Ooops! Don't reply 'cos this is the M9 thread with N10 extensions.

Not to go off topic completely but as far as I can see nothing has happened to the M32 despite some people's belief that it no longer exists.

For those who don't know, the M32 was a 0.6 km link between the main M50/M1 roundabout and a smaller roundabout on the N32. Because once you passed the roundabout from the N32 you ended up on either the M50 or the M1 it lead inescapably to a motorway therefore it had to be designated a motorway. It was never signed as the M32 though.

When the junction at the M1/M50 was redesigned to make it freeflow there seems to have been an assumption that the freeflow lanes were now the M50 motorway and the old roundabout went back to being a standard N route. This then lead people to assume that the tiny link between the roundabout and the N32 roundabout was also turned back into an N road (i.e. the N32). Somebody on OpenStreetMap has done that change and extended the N32 in this manner.

OpenStreetMap version

But according to the NRA's map its still there as an extension off the M50 roundabout to the N32 roundabout. You can just about see it. This map has been created recently because it has the new layout and it clearly marks the old roundabout as motorway and the link to the N32, so therefore it must still exist as the M32.

M1/N1 Junction Map


To bring this back on topic what's interesting about this though is that if somebody who shouldn't be on the M32 did end up there they could potentially just go around the roundabout and come back the way they came. Technically they would be illegal but they could rectify the situation very quickly. With the N10 there isn't even that opportunity for traffic to turn back off the road without having to do a U-turn, which is crazy.

So the N10 is exactly like the M32 which is why I don't understand why it isn't classed as motorway. The NRA just aren't being consistent here.

What I don't understand is that it is obviously a deliberate decision not to classify this as motorway as opposed to just making a mistake about it. So can anybody hazard a guess as to what lies behind this decision? Unless the NRA had plans to link this section to some other non-motorway route it seems to defy any logic. Is there some difference in maintenance and ownership between N and M routes? One would have thought that the NRA would be quite happy to have more blue lines on the map.

jd

Jayuu wrote: »

What I don't understand is that it is obviously a deliberate decision not to classify this as motorway as opposed to just making a mistake about it. So can anybody hazard a guess as to what lies behind this decision?

Oneguess is that it allows farmers access to fields, maybe when the M9 opens farms will be split?

robert muldoon

jd wrote: »

Oneguess is that it allows farmers access to fields, maybe when the M9 opens farms will be split?

Has everyone gone on holidays?

Fluffybums

jd wrote: »

Oneguess is that it allows farmers access to fields, maybe when the M9 opens farms will be split?

Doubt it the farmers are already using the M9 between Knocktopher and Waterford. I've seen tractors driving along the hard shoulder a number of times, including one occasion when the tractor was pulling a trailer piled high with those circular bails.:eek:

jd

Fluffybums wrote: »

Doubt it the farmers are already using the M9 between Knocktopher and Waterford. I've seen tractors driving along the hard shoulder a number of times, including one occasion when the tractor was pulling a trailer piled high with those circular bails.:eek:

WEll yes, but I doubt there are direct access into fields off the M9

kieranb07

jd wrote: »

WEll yes, but I doubt there are direct access into fields off the M9

Well going on the rest of the M9 (wford-kkenny and the castledermot-kilcullen) there is direct access to feilds... also something that i really dont get is the fact that I see atleast 1 tractor on the M9 motorway everyday on my way to work... Is there not a law against them being on it?????:eek:

johnbk

The new N10 to M9 link does not have access to farmer's fields. It has an underpass for access to fields at the Kilkenny end and an over bridge for farmer's access at the Trumpet junction end. It also has lanes parallel to the road for access to fields.

I feel the NRA will have no choice but put up motorway restriction signs at the start of this link road, expecting drivers to do U-turns on a road like this, if they mistakenly enter it, would be crazy and eventually cause an accident.

Don’t get me started on tractors using Motorways. Some tractors can do over 50kph but not when pulling a load (They don’t have half the power of trucks). This practice should be treated very seriously by the Garda and will eventually lead to a serious accident.

L1011

kieranb07 wrote: »

Well going on the rest of the M9 (wford-kkenny and the castledermot-kilcullen) there is direct access to feilds... also something that i really dont get is the fact that I see atleast 1 tractor on the M9 motorway everyday on my way to work... Is there not a law against them being on it?????:eek:

There is NO direct access to fields ANYWHERE on the motorway network in Ireland.


Tractors with transmissions that allow them to go above 50km/h are allowed (dangerously enough), but their standard manner of driving in the hard shoulder is not.

Mr Clonfadda

saw tractor pulled over by the gardai yesterday on M9.

Also what's with the changes to layout from the 16th August just at Powerstown ? is it something to get excited about or is it just to allow them to finish off the little bit of the south bound carriageway not yet lined etc?

frankie2shoes

september is rapidly approaching and still we have no official opening date for the final section of this motorway. Anybody got any further update on the date of completion?

kieranb07

johnbk wrote: »

Don’t get me started on tractors using Motorways. Some tractors can do over 50kph but not when pulling a load (They don’t have half the power of trucks). This practice should be treated very seriously by the Garda and will eventually lead to a serious accident.

Just to make this clear before I get my head ate off :rolleyes: Im not meaning this to turn into a hate farmers thing because it's far from that!!
(Because that would mean i hate my mother, Grandmother, My GF her family and most my friends...:p)

I just think that tractors with trailors on a Mway is illegal and it should be enforced all it will take is 1 round bale as above to fall off a trailor... I dont even wany to think what would happen, especially the speeds some cars do be doing on the KK-wford section!!! (And yes im lookin at you mr. silver austin martin doing about 180Mph!!:mad: God dam nearly Pooed myself the speed he passed me at:o)

Anyway I just hope this road gets finished in time for the 5th of september

tramor

I agree, tractors should be reported to the cops. I certainly will if I see one on the motorway and get his plate. If you don't stop it ASAP, the motorway will be full of them. They are one of the reasons motorways have to be built. I've seen several cyclists on the waterford bypass, kilmeadan section. I think there are signs on one end that they, plus tractors, are not allowed on this, but not at the other end. Talk about completely slap-dash of waterford Coco.

Road-Hog

tramor wrote: »

I agree, tractors should be reported to the cops. I certainly will if I see one on the motorway and get his plate. If you don't stop it ASAP, the motorway will be full of them. They are one of the reasons motorways have to be built. I've seen several cyclists on the waterford bypass, kilmeadan section. I think there are signs on one end that they, plus tractors, are not allowed on this, but not at the other end. Talk about completely slap-dash of waterford Coco.

Think you need to repalce Waterford Co. Co. with CRG/South Link, also if you look at the by-laws associated with the N25 bypass you will find that cyclists, pedestrians etc are only excluded from the Grannagh Interchange as far as the Western link junction, the signs at the Kilmeaden and Luffany ends should be and I think will be removed.