M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

mysterious

Wild Bill wrote: »

Hmmm. Do I detect some anti-Offaly prejudice here? Shame on you all. Callan in KK was bypassed; Donegal Town was bypassed; Charleville in Mayo, and many more - all on routes with less traffic than the N52/N80 at Tullamore.

I don't accept that 'cos the M20 is not built Tullamore should have been deprived. On that reasoning the M20 should wait till they finish the M11 in Wicklow. And probably the Dublin Outer Orbital as well. And the Newlands X junction. And widening the M50/M11 merge and Bray bypass. And widening the M7 between the M9 and the Naas Road. And.....you get the point? :mad:

The N20 has recieved NO attention in since the 90s. The road carries 15,000 a day. The M9 and other schemes were prioritised before the N20 at every given chance. The M11 had two schemes already finished in the last 3 years.

No the point still remains. Priority over white elephant schemes. Tullamore already has a bypass to move national secondary route traffic around the town.

mysterious

Wild Bill wrote: »

This is what is wrong with you Irish. You are incapable of defending your own pet project without mindless dissing of another one. The Tullamore by-pass was badly needed. And the traffic count on the N20? What is it? 10k per day? Lucky to have a donkey track in these straightened times. :cool:

You would have a great argument if you got your facts straight.



The N20 varies from from 15,000 to 17,500 a day. And 1,700 trucks daily.

Sponge Bob

Wild Bill wrote: »

Charleville in Mayo, and many more

Charlestown in Mayo <cough>

I don't accept that 'cos the M20 is not built Tullamore should have been deprived.

The M20 has not even been fully designed yet ,Tullamore is finished. This is a rather futile argument from the M20 fanboys . M11 'missing link' being ditched ahead of Tullamore may well have some validity . About the same cost . More traffic too.

However we need a decent road connecting the main midland / leinster towns and this forms part of it .

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

The N20 has recieved NO attention in since the 90s. The road carries 15,000 a day. The M9 and other schemes were prioritised before the N20 at every given chance. The M11 had two schemes already finished in the last 3 years.

No the point still remains. Priority over white elephant schemes. Tullamore already has a bypass to move national secondary route traffic around the town.

Gorey Bypass and? The Kilpedder Interchange work is not only not on the M11 it barely counts as a scheme - the road was already D2 through it...

Sponge Bob

mysterious wrote: »

You would have a great argument if you got your facts straight The N20 varies from from 15,000 to 17,500 a day. And 1,700 trucks daily.

So would you , the GOOD BITs of the N20 carry that sort of traffic while the crap bits are around 11k a day, same as the N52 south of Kilbeggan in fact

Chris_533976

Wild Bill wrote: »

Hmmm. Do I detect some anti-Offaly prejudice here? Shame on you all. Callan in KK was bypassed; Donegal Town was bypassed; Charleville in Mayo, and many more - all on routes with less traffic than the N52/N80 at Tullamore.

No anti-Offaly prejudice, I dont think by county, I think by route and the national interest. IMO there are more important 'small schemes' around than Tullamore, eg: Adare, Claregalway, Longford. They are more bottlenecked than Tullamore was. Granted, only Claregalway is ready to go (or at least the M17 bypass bit, not the inner relief road but lets not get into that).

I don't accept that 'cos the M20 is not built Tullamore should have been deprived. On that reasoning the M20 should wait till they finish the M11 in Wicklow. And probably the Dublin Outer Orbital as well. And the Newlands X junction. And widening the M50/M11 merge and Bray bypass. And widening the M7 between the M9 and the Naas Road. And.....you get the point? :mad:

The M20 is waiting until the M11 gap and Newlands is done, and quite rightly. The M11 gap and Newlands are the most needed schemes out there at the moment and are quite rightly priorities. The only reason the M17/18 PPP is ahead of the Newlands/M11 one is because Newlands is a relatively cheap scheme and it was hoped that it could go ahead by government funding, whereas the M17/18 was known to have to use PPP. When it was discovered that Newlands has faced the capital-funding axe, it was shifted to PPP so a delay was introduced.

Edit: That said, the M17/18 should not have priority over the M20. The Claregalway Inner Relief road SHOULD however. The reason the M20 isnt designed yet is because it wasnt pushed and because it doesnt connect Dublin to something. Tullamore was pushed because of vested political interests, simple as that. I'm not denying that it needed doing, just that there are/were far more important schemes out there.

mysterious

Tullamore got a bypass because Cowen has a mansion there. Or this is the rumour I believe. Don't be surprised that he ives there and took fund elsewhere from other schemes into this road.


Everyone can sing and dance about how prejudice the world is, for stating this blantant fact, but the reality is Cowen said so. White elephant planning at its best.

The N20 Connects Irelands two largest cities and is also connected to the western backbone of the country. The N52 is a national secondary road that connects medium sized towns. Tullamore has a bypass already.

This is not a debate issue. This is reality you can't argue against.

mysterious

MYOB wrote: »

Gorey Bypass and? The Kilpedder Interchange work is not only not on the M11 it barely counts as a scheme - the road was already D2 through it...

Ashford Rathnew.
The N11 has got major upgrades in recent years.

Sponge Bob

mysterious wrote: »

The N20 Connects Irelands two largest cities and is also connected to the western backbone of the country.

The N20 connects Irelands 3rd and 5th largest cities. There is no motorway between the 2nd and 4th largest but the Irish governments has pledged 400-500m towards remedying that over the next 5 years. Sadly this has meant the deferral of the N20 PPP scheme as the money is evidently not there for it .

Don't rant at me rant at Martin and O'Dea and their underlings because ye elected them down there.

It is a great tribute to the class of politician that Cork and Limerick elects that the N20 and N24 roads have remained the primitive boreens they both are for so long, particularly their middle sections which are dangerous and abysmal , not even worthy of R road designation in the main.

The similar but not quite so bad middle section of the N18 is now being upgraded thank god .

L1011

mysterious wrote: »

Ashford Rathnew.
The N11 has got major upgrades in recent years.

Much older than three years old.

KerranJast

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The N20 connects Irelands 3rd and 5th largest cities.

Last time I checked Cork was Ireland's 2nd largest city and you can argue whether Galway is bigger than Limerick given that they extended the city limits into huge chunks of the county to up their numbers.

Sponge Bob

Belfast and Derry are the 2nd and 4th largest cities in Ireland and have no motorway between them . Cork and Limerick are the 3rd and 5th largest .

KerranJast

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Belfast and Derry are the 2nd and 4th largest cities in Ireland and have no motorway between them . Cork and Limerick are the 3rd and 5th largest .

Belfast and Derry aren't in Ireland. They're in Northern Ireland.

Typewriter

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Belfast and Derry are the 2nd and 4th largest cities in Ireland and have no motorway between them . Cork and Limerick are the 3rd and 5th largest .

Belfast and Derry are in Northern Ireland which is part of the UK economy. Not NRA, Irish government or Irish tax payer territory.

Roryhy

Going to side with Spongebob here but its all just semantics, they're all in Ireland, some in the Republic of Ireland, some in Northern Ireland. It's a mistake thats easy to make.

Typewriter

Roryhy wrote: »

Going to side with Spongebob here but its all just semantics, they're all in Ireland, some in the Republic of Ireland, some in Northern Ireland. It's a mistake thats easy to make.

:rolleyes:

Ok but we are talking about which road schemes in Ireland(IRL) should have priority over others.

Sponge Bob

green_jesus wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Ok but we are talking about which road schemes in Ireland(IRL) should have priority over others.

Well the STATE has committed UK£400m of funding to roads in the North in the period 2011 - 2015 and has committed no such amount in the south where it's writ runs .

This will COMPLETE a HQDC/D2+2 (or Motorway) between the 2nd and 4th cities in Ireland by 2015 .....which are Belfast and Derry like I said . ( read 'note on costs' at the end of that link )

No funding has been committed to the M20 road between the 3rd and 5th cities during that time but ye should bring this anomaly up with Martin and O'Dea instead of throwing hissy fits at me . After all ye pay tax don't ye

L1011

Sponge Bob wrote: »

This will COMPLETE a HQDC/D2+2 (or Motorway) between the 2nd and 4th cities in Ireland by 2015 .....which are Belfast and Derry like I said . ( read 'note on costs' at the end of that link )

Its creating a DC link in much the same way that you could claim the N/M18 creates a DC link from Dublin to Limerick - via Rathmorrisey! Its not the direct route and it won't be the main route used either.

We're committing spending towards that so that we can get a DC from Derry and Letterkenny to Dublin, not Derry to Belfast.

Stark

Roryhy wrote: »

Going to side with Spongebob here but its all just semantics, they're all in Ireland, some in the Republic of Ireland, some in Northern Ireland. It's a mistake thats easy to make.

"Ireland", one word, is the official name for the republic of Ireland. The description "Republic of Ireland" is sometimes used to explicitly differentiate Ireland from Northern Ireland but "Ireland" is the official name used by most to refer to the state. Belfast and Derry are not in Ireland.

Typewriter

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Well the STATE has committed UK£400m of funding to roads in the North in the period 2011 - 2015 and has committed no such amount in the south where it's writ runs .

This will COMPLETE a HQDC/D2+2 (or Motorway) between the 2nd and 4th cities in Ireland by 2015 .....which are Belfast and Derry like I said . ( read 'note on costs' at the end of that link )

No funding has been committed to the M20 road between the 3rd and 5th cities during that time but ye should bring this anomaly up with Martin and O'Dea instead of throwing hissy fits at me . After all ye pay tax don't ye

I was just reminding everyone that this thread is about the validity of the M20 between limerick and cork not about 'mine is bigger than yours'.

Sponge Bob

MYOB wrote: »

Its creating a DC link in much the same way that you could claim the N/M18 creates a DC link from Dublin to Limerick - via Rathmorrisey! Its not the direct route and it won't be the main route used either.

It will in winter, the direct road passes over the Glenshane pass which is the highest point on any MIU road in Ireland at over 1000 feet which is lethal for trucks and is frequently closed outright by snow.

We're committing spending towards that so that we can get a DC
from Derry and Letterkenny to Dublin, not Derry to Belfast.

But we are not concurrently planning on spending a single penny between Ardee and the border in Emyvale , our priorities are not a little skewed .

Had we not committed this funding during 2007 , (then €600m now under €500m) , we could have built well over half the N20 by 2015 instead of very long fingering it beyond 2015 as we did during the summer when it was withdrawn from the PPP program .

Simple cause and effect . If the other PPP projects go ahead the Cork - Limerick funds will be spent up north and we won't even get a Strabane and Lifford Bypass for our investment just so you know .

Wild Bill

mysterious wrote: »

The N20 Connects Ireland's two largest cities and is also connected to the western backbone of the country.

This is not a debate issue. This is reality you can't argue against.

Wow! And you called my (accurate) facts nonsense!

L1011

Sponge Bob wrote: »

But we are not concurrently planning on spending a single penny between Ardee and the border in Emyvale , our priorities are not a little skewed .

That'd be because we haven't got a clue whether to upgrade the N2, or run off the end of the M3, or run across from the M1 for our end of the route. We know where we need to aim at, but we don't have any idea of what way to get there... sounds familiar!

ardmacha

Belfast and Derry are not in Ireland.

Nice to get a chance to use the roads thread to feel superior and exclude other people isn't it? Some people never miss an opportunity to get one over on others.
Belfast and Derry are as much in Ireland as Cork or Limerick. It is not for you to say that your part of Ireland is more Ireland than any other part.

For what it is worth I doubt if the NI people can raise their part of the Aughacloy-Derry route, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Nic'name

ardmacha wrote: »

Nice to get a chance to use the roads thread to feel superior and exclude other people isn't it? Some people never miss an opportunity to get one over on others.
Belfast and Derry are as much in Ireland as Cork or Limerick. It is not for you to say that your part of Ireland is more Ireland than any other part.

For what it is worth I doubt if the NI people can raise their part of the Aughacloy-Derry route, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

But do you not understand what Green Jesus mean? Belfast and Derry's roads are "NOT" funded by the Irish government. This is not a political debate. It's a fact that was stated.

mysterious

Wild Bill wrote: »

Wow! And you called my (accurate) facts nonsense!

That was a freudian slip.

I meant Ireland second and third largest cities.


And fourth even.

ardmacha

But do you not understand what Green Jesus mean?

I have no problem with what Green Jesus said. I was referring to posters who can't seem to distinguish between the State and the Country and who felt the need to correct Sponge Bob who is aware of the difference.

asdasd

This may be off topic in a thread about the biggest cities in Ireland but does anyone have any information on the M20?

Sponge Bob

asdasd wrote: »

This may be off topic in a thread about the biggest cities in Ireland but does anyone have any information on the M20?

Not till Peter Robinson cancels the A5 from Ballygawley to Derry....and even then the €€s could end up spent on some "smart" "green" wheeze that our government fancied .

ilovegermany

Could the NRA not simply build the element of the M20 from south of Mallow to north of Charleville. I see that junction locations are proposed on or very near to the existing N20 at these locations. Then finnish it at a later date.

That would save a lot of money in the short term???