M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Very heavy traffic on the N20 this evening as the census data collection continues. Unfortunately it was northbound at the time so I couldn't partake.

3 sets of traffic counters between the M20 and Charleville, and one on the R515 outside Charleville.

I travelled from the Jack Lynch Tunnel earlier, up through Mayfield, down the North Ring Road heading for the Blarney exit,mother of god the traffic was a joke :mad:

The Junction at Blackpool shopping centre is also a nightmare where traffic turns left to head for Farranree.

Reputable Rog

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I travelled from the Jack Lynch Tunnel earlier, up through Mayfield, down the North Ring Road heading for the Blarney exit,mother of god the traffic was a joke :mad:

The Junction at Blackpool shopping centre is also a nightmare where traffic turns left to head for Farranree.

The sequencing of the lights there is beyond a joke, turn left or right on green and straight into another red at Commons/Pophams Road junction.
Traffic then blocking the N20. I wrote to the City Council about it but never received a reply.
The sequencing of lights generally in the City is very bad, North Ring through Mayfield and down to Silversprings very bad as well.

blindsider

TRaffic counters on the R513 also - between Mitchelstown & Ballylanders....

irishfeen

Some census audit/count in New Twopothouse by the looks of it this morning, warning signs to slow down for them.

Reputable Rog

So on the day the M17/18 opens we can only look on in envy as we trundle along our 19th century cattle track.
It struck me this morning that Cork, in particular the north and westsides of the City are falling further and further behind roads infrastructure wise.

AugustusMinimus

Reputable Rog wrote: »

So on the day the M17/18 opens we can only look on in envy as we trundle along our 19th century cattle track.
It struck me this morning that Cork, in particular the north and westsides of the City are falling further and further behind roads infrastructure wise.

Over the last 15 years, Cork has been the black sheep in Ireland for infrastructural spending.

All that we have got in the city was the flyovers on the SRR and maybe you can count the Ballincollig bypass.

At the same time, Dublin has got an enormous radial arm motorway network, Port Tunnel and M50 upgrade.

Limerick and Galway are now linked by motorway. Galway bypass is going ahead. Limerick got its tunnel. Limerick is also getting a northern feeder road.

Waterford is the only city which compares to Cork, having only got a city bypass. No other schemes are planned for the city. Waterford was lucky to even get the M9.

Cork needs untold amount of schemes. A full NRR being the most pressing. I don’t think the M20 can’t make sense without it.

Reputable Rog

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Over the last 15 years, Cork has been the black sheep in Ireland for infrastructural spending.

All that we have got in the city was the flyovers on the SRR and maybe you can count the Ballincollig bypass.

At the same time, Dublin has got an enormous radial arm motorway network, Port Tunnel and M50 upgrade.

Limerick and Galway are now linked by motorway. Galway bypass is going ahead. Limerick got its tunnel. Limerick is also getting a northern feeder road.

Waterford is the only city which compares to Cork, having only got a city bypass. No other schemes are planned for the city. Waterford was lucky to even get the M9.

Cork needs untold amount of schemes. A full NRR being the most pressing. I don’t think the M20 can’t make sense without it.

I was actually thinking that this morning, it took me 25 minutes from Mallow to Blarney and then a further 35 to get down Sundays Well.
The M20 is useless without the NRR, Blackpool will still be a problem though.

road_high

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Over the last 15 years, Cork has been the black sheep in Ireland for infrastructural spending.

All that we have got in the city was the flyovers on the SRR and maybe you can count the Ballincollig bypass.

At the same time, Dublin has got an enormous radial arm motorway network, Port Tunnel and M50 upgrade.

Limerick and Galway are now linked by motorway. Galway bypass is going ahead. Limerick got its tunnel. Limerick is also getting a northern feeder road.

Waterford is the only city which compares to Cork, having only got a city bypass. No other schemes are planned for the city. Waterford was lucky to even get the M9.

Cork needs untold amount of schemes. A full NRR being the most pressing. I don’t think the M20 can’t make sense without it.

Waterford has excellent road infrastructure, proportionally far better and more effective than Corks.

grogi

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I was actually thinking that this morning, it took me 25 minutes from Mallow to Blarney and then a further 35 to get down Sundays Well.
The M20 is useless without the NRR, Blackpool will still be a problem though.

NRR plus Buttevant bypass (as a temp measure) would be more beneficial than M20 without NRR...

boardsuser1

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I was actually thinking that this morning, it took me 25 minutes from Mallow to Blarney and then a further 35 to get down Sundays Well.
The M20 is useless without the NRR, Blackpool will still be a problem though.

Was it that lovely lady again :pac::pac::pac:

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Over the last 15 years, Cork has been the black sheep in Ireland for infrastructural spending.

All that we have got in the city was the flyovers on the SRR and maybe you can count the Ballincollig bypass.

At the same time, Dublin has got an enormous radial arm motorway network, Port Tunnel and M50 upgrade.

Limerick and Galway are now linked by motorway. Galway bypass is going ahead. Limerick got its tunnel. Limerick is also getting a northern feeder road.

Waterford is the only city which compares to Cork, having only got a city bypass. No other schemes are planned for the city. Waterford was lucky to even get the M9.

Cork needs untold amount of schemes. A full NRR being the most pressing. I don’t think the M20 can’t make sense without it.

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange
M20 North (or equivalent)
M20 South (or equivalent)
N22 Macroom-Ovens
N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney
N25 Carrigtwohill-Middleton
N25 Middleton-Youghal
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
N40 North Ring West
N40 North Ring East
M71/N71 Cork-Inishannon
N72 Mallow relief road
N71 upgrade Inishannon-Rosscarbery
R624 Cobh dual carriageway

All have been planned or progressed and required.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange
M20 North (or equivalent)
M20 South (or equivalent)
N22 Macroom-Ovens
N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney
N25 Carrigtwohill-Middleton
N25 Middleton-Youghal
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy
N40 North Ring West
N40 North Ring East
M71/N71 Cork-Inishannon
N72 Mallow relief road
N71 upgrade Inishannon-Rosscarbery
R624 Cobh dual carriageway

All have been planned or progressed and required.

I can't see all of this being done in less than 30 years at least, i'll be retired or dead by the time that list is completed.

Reputable Rog

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Was it that lovely lady again :pac::pac::pac:

Not this time. I keep thinking I'm seeing her everywhere though, its like the movie Duel
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj_2u7slMXWAhWSJlAKHYH8D4EQtwIIKDAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DRSlzFQnf_v8&usg=AFQjCNGZlPpW7Sz8KCAubD_hqsCb69g9Hw

Middle Man

Reputable Rog wrote: »

So on the day the M17/18 opens we can only look on in envy as we trundle along our 19th century cattle track.
It struck me this morning that Cork, in particular the north and westsides of the City are falling further and further behind roads infrastructure wise.

The M17/18 will add more political pressure to get the M20 done as people in the South revile the raw deal they're getting compared to most other regions including the West. The N20 is a disgrace and the state should be ashamed.

Aontachtoir

Middle Man wrote: »

Reputable Rog wrote: »

So on the day the M17/18 opens we can only look on in envy as we trundle along our 19th century cattle track.
It struck me this morning that Cork, in particular the north and westsides of the City are falling further and further behind roads infrastructure wise.

The M17/18 will add more political pressure to get the M20 done as people in the South revile the raw deal they're getting compared to most other regions including the West.

I'm from Douglas in Cork, and I don't revile anything. We're coming out of a desperately bad recession when nearly nothing happened (but we still got the south link flyovers done). Important projects like the Dunkettle upgrade, M28, and Macroom bypass are working their way through the pipeline, and it looks increasingly likely that the M20 will get the go-ahead soon to start that same process. The M17 is an important part of the M20-18-17(-15) Atlantic Corridor that Cork will firmly anchor in future. Better infrastructure means more growth for everyone in Ireland.

All of Ireland got a raw deal during the global recession, and we all suffered together. Now we're coming out together.

Water John

Ah stop, the Macroom bypass should have happened 20 years ago.
The refusal to countenance a M from Cork to Limerick was a political decision.

Aontachtoir

Water John wrote: »

Ah stop, the Macroom bypass should have happened 20 years ago.
The refusal to countenance a M from Cork to Limerick was a political decision.

It should have, absolutely, along with a huge number of other roads that were cancelled because of a lack of cash. Same with the M20. How could that cancellation possibly be considered political? Which politician gains votes by cancelling important national infrastructure? Some guys on this forum are still spitting venom at Leo because he was transport minister at the time. It was political only in so far as the decision to cancel had to be taken by a politician. That politician had no real choice, because there was simply no cash.

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

I'm from Douglas in Cork, and I don't revile anything. We're coming out of a desperately bad recession when nearly nothing happened (but we still got the south link flyovers done). Important projects like the Dunkettle upgrade, M28, and Macroom bypass are working their way through the pipeline, and it looks increasingly likely that the M20 will get the go-ahead soon to start that same process. The M17 is an important part of the M20-18-17(-15) Atlantic Corridor that Cork will firmly anchor in future. Better infrastructure means more growth for everyone in Ireland.

All of Ireland got a raw deal during the global recession, and we all suffered together. Now we're coming out together.

Cork's road infrastructure is now sorely lagging behind that of Galway and Limerick, and a good bit behind Waterford's

Cork itself (no North Ring), Killeagh, Castlemartyr, Dunkettle, Inishannon, Brandon, Mallow, Buttevant, Macroom, Carrs Hill all chronic bottlenecks. This neglect goes back further than the recession. Since 2004/5, all we've got is the M8 and the SRR roundabouts which should have been grade separated from day one.. have a look at my list a bit further up.

Reputable Rog

Aontachtoir wrote: »

It should have, absolutely, along with a huge number of other roads that were cancelled because of a lack of cash. Same with the M20. How could that cancellation possibly be considered political? Which politician gains votes by cancelling important national infrastructure? Some guys on this forum are still spitting venom at Leo because he was transport minister at the time. It was political only in so far as the decision to cancel had to be taken by a politician. That politician had no real choice, because there was simply no cash.

The fact that you refer to him as Leo makes me think that your a Blueshirt shill.
The road would be built or nearly built now but for your Tory hero.

AugustusMinimus

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Middle Man wrote: »

Reputable Rog wrote: »

So on the day the M17/18 opens we can only look on in envy as we trundle along our 19th century cattle track.
It struck me this morning that Cork, in particular the north and westsides of the City are falling further and further behind roads infrastructure wise.

The M17/18 will add more political pressure to get the M20 done as people in the South revile the raw deal they're getting compared to most other regions including the West.

I'm from Douglas in Cork, and I don't revile anything. We're coming out of a desperately bad recession when nearly nothing happened (but we still got the south link flyovers done). Important projects like the Dunkettle upgrade, M28, and Macroom bypass are working their way through the pipeline, and it looks increasingly likely that the M20 will get the go-ahead soon to start that same process. The M17 is an important part of the M20-18-17(-15) Atlantic Corridor that Cork will firmly anchor in future. Better infrastructure means more growth for everyone in Ireland.

All of Ireland got a raw deal during the global recession, and we all suffered together. Now we're coming out together.

The SRR flyovers were the very least that Harv to be done. The original SRR was a cheap job with at grade roundabouts everywhere.

It goes without saying, that every other city which got a bypass or Ring road got it done correctly first time.

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

Aontachtoir wrote: »

I'm from Douglas in Cork, and I don't revile anything. We're coming out of a desperately bad recession when nearly nothing happened (but we still got the south link flyovers done). Important projects like the Dunkettle upgrade, M28, and Macroom bypass are working their way through the pipeline, and it looks increasingly likely that the M20 will get the go-ahead soon to start that same process. The M17 is an important part of the M20-18-17(-15) Atlantic Corridor that Cork will firmly anchor in future. Better infrastructure means more growth for everyone in Ireland.

All of Ireland got a raw deal during the global recession, and we all suffered together. Now we're coming out together.

Cork's road infrastructure is now sorely lagging behind that of Galway and Limerick, and a good bit behind Waterford's

Cork itself (no North Ring), Killeagh, Castlemartyr, Dunkettle, Inishannon, Brandon, Mallow, Buttevant, Macroom, Carrs Hill all chronic bottlenecks. This neglect goes back further than the recession. Since 2004/5, all we've got is the M8 and the SRR roundabouts which should have been grade separated from day one.. have a look at my list a bit further up.

Hi Marno, I saw your list earlier today. Thanks for posting it. I completely agree that Cork needs a disproportionate amount of investment in our roads, both due to the poor state of pre-existing infrastructure and because we've grown so much in recent years. I find it frustrating too that there are so many important issues not being addressed yet (thinking in particular of NRR, N25 to Youghal, and N22 to Macroom).

What I take issue with is the sense of victimhood that seems to be emanating from some parts of this forum. Cork has not been unfairly overlooked for improvements or had resources stolen. Sneaky Dublin politicians did not cancel the M20 to screw over Cork. There was a recession, and everyone got short-changed. Now things are getting better, and there are already multiple projects working their way through the system. Let's focus on the positives and keep pressing for more investment.

Water John

No, I have no problem with Leo shouting halt when the country ran out of money.

Its Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan suggesting we had audacity to look for it. This is long after Bohoola and Charlestown were bypassed to nowhere.

I will say fair play if Leo puts the M20 back on the map.

AugustusMinimus

Water John wrote: »

No, I have no problem with Leo shouting halt when the country ran out of money.

Its Enda Kenny and Michael Noonan suggesting we had audacity to look for it. This is long after Bohoola and Charlestown were bypassed to nowhere.

I will say fair play if Leo puts the M20 back on the map.

Did Leo have to call such a halt that the whole scheme has to now go through another feasibility study (madness) and more design?

I can guarantee this road will not open within 10 years. Other schemes will be prioritised and Enda will tell us to be happy with our Macroom bypass.

Doltanian

What would people think of a solution like this to build a new Motorway which would include the Cork North Ring from the M8 around to the Ballincollig Bypass and a spur north of the Lee connecting over to Macroom, bypassing the north of the City, alleviating pressure from the South Ring and connecting Kerry to Cork and Dublin via the M8 by Motorway?

AugustusMinimus

Doltanian wrote: »

What would people think of a solution like this to build a new Motorway which would include the Cork North Ring from the M8 around to the Ballincollig Bypass and a spur north of the Lee connecting over to Macroom, bypassing the north of the City, alleviating pressure from the South Ring and connecting Kerry to Cork and Dublin via the M8 by Motorway?

Good idea in principle. Terrain isn’t conducive to road building north of the Lee though.

Water John

Interesting option. TMK the land between Blarney and Sarsfield Court is difficult to transverse. If you notice all roads in the area are north- south.
The land south of the Lee between Ovens and Macroom is much easier also than north. As they are finding on the ring north of Macrrom. Intensively archeological also.

Actually good option though in logistic terms.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep the political point scoring for the politics forum and just stick to building and construction of the stuff. Politics is OK to a small extent but not name calling.

fonzy951

marno21 wrote: »

Cork's road infrastructure is now sorely lagging behind that of Galway and Limerick, and a good bit behind Waterford's

Cork itself (no North Ring), Killeagh, Castlemartyr, Dunkettle, Inishannon, Brandon, Mallow, Buttevant, Macroom, Carrs Hill all chronic bottlenecks. This neglect goes back further than the recession. Since 2004/5, all we've got is the M8 and the SRR roundabouts which should have been grade separated from day one.. have a look at my list a bit further up.

The NRR (atleast eastern part) will have to be done in parallel with the M20, I can't understand why this has been omitted from planning. All road building projects should be completely removed from politics and an independent FAIR body should be setup immediately which prioritize on criteria such as safety, traffic levels etc.. and not on where the minister comes from or they got their planning first nonsense. The M20 and NRR should have been built away ahead of some completed projects around the country and its a real scandal tbh.

grogi

fonzy951 wrote: »

All road building projects should be completely removed from politics and an independent FAIR body should be setup immediately

But it is political.

A road infrastructure influences where direct investments go (you would like to build your factory in a place, where products can be shipped from).

Investments bring jobs and prosperity.

marno21

fonzy951 wrote: »

The NRR (atleast eastern part) will have to be done in parallel with the M20, I can't understand why this has been omitted from planning. All road building projects should be completely removed from politics and an independent FAIR body should be setup immediately (TII are incompetent) which prioritize on criteria such as safety, traffic levels etc.. and not on where the minister comes from or they got their planning first nonsense. The M20 and NRR should have been built away ahead of some completed projects around the country and its a real scandal tbh.

TII have had the M20 as their top priority with near on 10 years, but they have been told not to build it and build other schemes instead

The current plans for roads are the result of political interference, not the TII.