M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

marno21

irishfeen wrote: »

So these are the proposed route options for the M20 - Any idea what was the preferred route a few years back?


[All image rights to the OSI, for information purposes only]

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_03_04.pdf

irishfeen wrote: »

I think there is talk of sometime in November right?

Yes its being published in November.

boardsuser1

Some people really don't listen :mad:

https://twitter.com/DBeechinor/status/918762737114730496

marno21

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Some people really don't listen :mad:

https://twitter.com/DBeechinor/status/918762737114730496

There's a reason he's tweeting and not designing roads.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

There's a reason he's tweeting and not designing roads.

Well said!

Middle Man

irishfeen wrote: »

So these are the proposed route options for the M20 - Any idea what was the preferred route a few years back?


[All image rights to the OSI, for information purposes only]

I doubt those route options are any longer valid - the whole thing will have to be redone from scratch AFAIK - that includes a feasibility study and a constraints study etc.

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

The original M20 scheme, which started back in the day, took about 18 months to get to An Bord Pleanala from scratch. If this is applied here, we could see the scheme ready to submit for planning in the second half of 2019. Then, assuming planning is granted without objection, we could see the scheme starting in late 2020 with a late 2023 opening.

This is a "best case scenario". However, so far the scheme has been given free rein to continue through planning; and Leo may want this on the ground asap as a vote winner given the media coverage of the announcement today. This is all over the news, Enda and Ringo's pet projects weren't. Only now are the politicians starting to wake up to how politically important this scheme is. Politicians locally can promise the sun moon and stars but most people are aware how fundamental the M20 is to the area and no action on the M20 is unforgivable.

The current activities are programmed until February 2018. TII will hopefully shortly issue a tender to appoint contractors to take this through Phases II, III, and IV of TII's Project Management Guidelines (route selection, design and EIS). Then it's ABP time. I would imagine if this is as important to Leo as he says it is that Finance will be under the scope of study on an ongoing basis.

It's easy to see after the Kenny reign how cynical we can be about infrastructure. A quick look at the Government Capital Spending thread shows how much has changed since Varadkar has taken over and that's only in the space of a few months, most of which were spent on holidays. I may have blamed Varadkar for giving this the bullet in 2011 but it's easy to look back and see that most schemes, bar a few pet projects were cancelled. There seems to be a geniune attempt to get this done so fingers crossed.

At least we have something tangible to work with now. Roll on the thread and the eagerly awaited updates!!

Unfortunately we need to be more realistic on how long this will take to get to planning. Just look at the challenges and delays that schemes like Galway & M28 are facing. The M20 v M513 v M24 debate is still going on and will most likely delay the route selection stage commencing. Still it’s a positive first step.

marno21

Limerick74 wrote: »

Unfortunately we need to be more realistic on how long this will take to get to planning. Just look at the challenges and delays that schemes like Galway & M28 are facing. The M20 v M513 v M24 debate is still going on and will most likely delay the route selection stage commencing. Still it’s a positive first step.

Galway Ring Road hasn't been submitted for planning yet & the M28 hasn't actually been held up yet - I believe there's to be an oral hearing so the bitter ****s can have their say - that doesn't mean there'll be any change to plans as the EIS disproves most of the propaganda the "Steering Group" has been spreading

The route debate will be drawn to a quick conclusion when the route selection process takes place - the M513 and M24 routes weren't even considered in the 2008 route selection

Middle Man

Limerick74 wrote: »

Unfortunately we need to be more realistic on how long this will take to get to planning. Just look at the challenges and delays that schemes like Galway & M28 are facing. The M20 v M513 v M24 debate is still going on and will most likely delay the route selection stage commencing. Still it’s a positive first step.

I'd say we could be looking at around 2.5 to 3 years from first public consultation to EIS/NIS/CPO submission to ABP - the Foynes to Limerick road scheme had its first public consultation in March 2015 and is yet to be submitted. The oral hearing etc. and decision process may take another year and then there's the tendering process. It must also be noted that after the award of the M17/M18 contract, it was almost a year before anything on the ground was happening. Here's what I reckon...

Possible timeline:
Q1 2018: Planning underway;
Q4 2020: Submission to ABP (EIS/NIS/CPO);
Q4 2021: ABP Decision (assuming approval);
Q1 2022: Tendering for Advanced works and Archaeological Excavations;
Q2 2022: Main tendering process started;
Q3 2022: Advanced Works and Archaeology contracts awarded;
Q2 2023: Main Contract Awarded;
Q1 2024: Road construction underway;
Q1 2027: Road Open to traffic.

I hate to say it but I think even 2027 is overly optimistic, more likely 2029

Doltanian

This whole road could be built and open within 2-2.5 years if we got rid of all the red tape and other total nonsense horse manure which ensures that everything progresses at a snails pace and every corrupt political crony pig at the trough can milk as much money from everything as possible.

Just move in a few D9 bulldozers and get moving, dig a big hole and bury every member of an taise, an board pleanala and every other SJW middle aged busy body woman who have nothing else to do with their pathetic life than complain and cause holdups and problems. Get all NIMBYS and bury them in said hole as backfill for construction. In China if you holdup progress they line you up and you get a bullet to the head and your family the bill for the bullet.

Look at the Apple data centre mess in Athenry, in Denmark its almost complete wheras here its bogged down. Its a damn road, NASA sent a man to the moon with the processing power of a pocket calculator in less time.

Middle Man

Deleted User wrote: »

I hate to say it but I think even 2027 is overly optimistic, more likely 2029

Well, that is an optimistic estimate assuming no major holdups! No doubt, with all the red tape, things will slip somewhat...

rounders

irishfeen wrote: »

So these are the proposed route options for the M20 - Any idea what was the preferred route a few years back?


[All image rights to the OSI, for information purposes only]

If I remember rightly, the green route was the preferred route

Middle Man

Doltanian wrote: »

<snip>Look at the Apple data centre mess in Athenry, in Denmark its almost complete wheras here its bogged down. Its a damn road, NASA sent a man to the moon with the processing power of a pocket calculator in less time.

That's more and more what needs to be said about Ireland in order to get things changed through embarrassment. If Apple did pull out, they could actually do Ireland a big favour as such a decision might act as a lesson on efficiency and management regarding the running of a country.

marno21

Lads...

Preferred route for M20 (2009) is in these 2 pdfs

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_03_04.pdf

Aontachtoir

marno21 wrote: »

Lads...

Preferred route for M20 (2009) is in these 2 pdfs

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_01_02.pdf

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20_Cork_Limerick_Motorway%20Scheme_Preliminary%20Design_June_2009/handout_03_04.pdf

Thanks Marno. The maps are interesting - it looks like they were planning on upgrading significant chunks of the N20 rather than building new roads, especially on the Blarney-Mallow corridor and around Croom. Does anyone know of any other motorways built like this (upgrade of single-carriageway national road)? I know a portion of the M28 is planned to be constructed in this fashion.

Also, if anyone wants to see how the above preferred route looked on a map, they are available on the Road Scheme Activity map on http://tii.ie/projects/road-schemes/ - which has yet to be updated.

cjpm

Nenagh bypass was an upgrade job. However unlike the N20, particularly the Rathduff to Burnfort section, it didn't have a sh1t load of field accesses, house entrances and side road junctions. The N20 does and as a result the planned upgrade will require 1 if not 2 parallel side roads to be built to allow access

cjpm

Yellow was a far better route in my opinion

spacetweek

Doltanian wrote: »

This whole road could be built and open within 2-2.5 years
<snip>
Its a damn road, NASA sent a man to the moon with the processing power of a pocket calculator in less time.

It’s good to sound off sometimes, I hope you feel better. Though I think you’re going a bit easy on An Taisce.

Middle Man

spacetweek wrote: »

It’s good to sound off sometimes, I hope you feel better. Though I think you’re going a bit easy on An Taisce.

TBH, one couldn't blame a person for sounding off given the joke our 'planning system' is. Just look at the Apple fiasco and how Denmark seemed much more efficient in getting the data centre there through their planning process (far quicker). Regarding the M20, it would probably be 10 years before it's carrying traffic - that is IMO too long!

irishfeen

With so much preparation done years ago on this project I presume planning should be faster then if we were starting off from square one.

Truckermal

Another bad accident at Waterloo again today..

Isambard

i came that way today and some woman pulled out of a side road on to the hard shoulder and accelerated until she was pacing two cars on the main drag, and then had to break hard at the end of the hard shoulder. No wonder there's accidents. The Gards got her on the Commons Rd though, silly girl passed a marked Gard car that was in lane 1 and then flew off towards the Blackpool SC at some considerable speed (50km/h limit), not surprisingly he took off after her.

Kevwoody

Truckermal wrote: »

Another bad accident at Waterloo again today..

The whole issue at Waterloo junction is cars are not stopping at the stop sign. They sail on out into the hard shoulder with nothing more than a quick glance out the window.
It only takes one inexperienced driver on the mainline to sh1t themselves and you've got a collision.
I absolutely despise people who exit side roads in this way.

Isambard

it happens at many junctions, but this one is on a bend and seems particularly dangerous. I had an old boy pull out on me there and was practically on the opposite grass verge to miss him. Luckily there was nothing in the way.

boardsuser1

Isambard wrote: »

it happens at many junctions, but this one is on a bend and seems particularly dangerous. I had an old boy pull out on me there and was practically on the opposite grass verge to miss him. Luckily there was nothing in the way.

This is my one fear everytime i go along that road with the truck

I can see cars at the junction from a distance, and when they see me i can only imagine that they think 'Oh i need to get out in front of that truck'

The second accident at that junction is a few weeks and both times involving trucks.

And again, R.I.P to the tourists a few weeks ago, my thoughts are with the truckers in both cases as well as the occupant(s) of the car this evening.

boardsuser1

Another crash on the N20

https://twitter.com/CorkSafetyAlert/status/919567367734202368

Isambard

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Another crash on the N20

https://twitter.com/CorkSafetyAlert/status/919567367734202368

that should be almost impossible to do! Hope everyone's Ok

boardsuser1

The N20 is now closed at the crash site.

Northbound traffic being diverted via Blarney.

Southbound traffic being diverted via Waterloo.

marno21

In 2014 during the storm there were 20km tailbacks on the N20.

I remember the drive time presenter on C103 couldn't make it to work on time as she was stuck in it.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day to say the least on the road given the crosswinds in parts especially between Rathduff and Blarney

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

In 2014 during the storm there were 20km tailbacks on the N20.

I remember the drive time presenter on C103 couldn't make it to work on time as she was stuck in it.

Tomorrow will be an interesting day to say the least on the road given the crosswinds in parts especially between Rathduff and Blarney

The department of education and skills has closed every school within the status red areas.

This will ease the traffic burden on the road,however I still expect some chaos to ensue.