M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

jgbyr

From Limerick 95 fm

"The Green Party is urging the government to reconsider its proposal for a new motorway between Limerick and Cork.

€5m already pledged for the planning and tendering phase of the project.

However the Green Party claims the current proposal is not the best use of taxpayers' money.

They are instead suggesting a Limerick-Waterford motorway which would would connect Cork and Limerick via the M8, and immediately knit the three regional cities of Munster together

This would also bring Clonmel and Carrick-on-Suir onto the Munster motorway network. "

JCX BXC

And completely exclude Mallow from the motorway network?

I'd also like to point out that Clonmel and Carrick on **** will be no nearer a motorway than they are currently.

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

And completely exclude Mallow from the motorway network?

I'd also like to point out that Clonmel and Carrick on **** will be no nearer a motorway than they are currently.

The Green Party have 2 seats in the Dail.

Let's leave it there

AugustusMinimus

Who on earth would drive all the way to Cahir to go to Limerick?

The old N20 would still be faster and a hell of s lot cheaper factoring in additional petrol and the toll.

And we’d still have to upgrade the entire N20 due to traffic. Madness.

Isambard

JCX BXC wrote: »

And completely exclude Mallow from the motorway network?

I'd also like to point out that Clonmel and Carrick on **** will be no nearer a motorway than they are currently.

and to add, not solve the problem of the deathtrap N20 which would still have to handle all the traffic it does now, bar the end to end traffic which I'd suggest is a tiny proportion. The road is essentially a commuter route into Cork and Limerick Cities for traffic originating intermediatley.

boardsuser1

The local media is giving this space on their paper.

John P. Feehan must be proud tonight.


https://twitter.com/oliver_moran/status/922507015024410624

grogi

They seem not to understand that connecting Cork and Limerick is a side effect, not the main goal of building that motorway...

marno21

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The local media is giving this space on their paper.

John P. Feehan must be proud tonight.


https://twitter.com/oliver_moran/status/922507015024410624

Perhaps Oliver, this so called "representative" can explain why it's more important to connect Carrick on Suir and Clonmel to the Motorway network than Mallow and Charleville, and why he feels shortening journey times between Waterford and Galway is more important than connecting Cork and Limerick.

Cork-Cahir-Limerick will be around 140km, around 45km longer than the existing N20, provide no relief for the N20, connect into a shambles of a junction in Limerick which is already jammed

Such rubbish from these people. Why the local media feel the need to air their ****e talk is beyond me. The Echo and Examiner could take a leaf from the Galway papers books who constantly report pro Galway infrastructure stuff instead of demeaning it all the time.

An M24 instead of an M20 would be political suicide for most of the TDs along the N20 corridor.

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

Perhaps Oliver, this so called "representative" can explain why it's more important to connect Carrick on Suir and Clonmel to the Motorway network than Mallow and Charleville, and why he feels shortening journey times between Waterford and Galway is more important than connecting Cork and Limerick.

Cork-Cahir-Limerick will be around 140km, around 45km longer than the existing N20, provide no relief for the N20, connect into a shambles of a junction in Limerick which is already jammed

Such rubbish from these people. Why the local media feel the need to air their ****e talk is beyond me. The Echo and Examiner could take a leaf from the Galway papers books who constantly report pro Galway infrastructure stuff instead of demeaning it all the time.

An M24 instead of an M20 would be political suicide for most of the TDs along the N20 corridor.

I have sent this thread via private mail directly to Oliver Moran and invited him to have a discussion with us here.

pat ticket

Bizarre by the local Greens, especially bizarre by
a Cork North Central area rep. You might expect them to either suggest increased PT spending as an alternative, or focus on the potential negative effects the M20 will have on spatial planning etc.

But to propose what they have is nonsensical.

Doltanian

Nothing wrong with the Green Party proposal at all, however the M20 should be prioritised and built first and a Limerick to Waterford to Rosslare (imo) Motorway should also be built but far lower down the priority list than the M20 and Macroom Bypass and other projects. So unless the exchequer gets a sudden bonanza of cash (Apple backtax maybe) then I'd go with the M20 first and look again at the Green Party Proposal in maybe 10-15 years time.

road_high

JCX BXC wrote: »

And completely exclude Mallow from the motorway network?

I'd also like to point out that Clonmel and Carrick on **** will be no nearer a motorway than they are currently.

Clonmel and Carrick are reasonably close to both the M9 and M8 as it is..so not sure what the Green Partys point is re them?

road_high

Doltanian wrote: »

Nothing wrong with the Green Party proposal at all, however the M20 should be prioritised and built first and a Limerick to Waterford to Rosslare (imo) Motorway should also be built but far lower down the priority list than the M20 and Macroom Bypass and other projects. So unless the exchequer gets a sudden bonanza of cash (Apple backtax maybe) then I'd go with the M20 first and look again at the Green Party Proposal in maybe 10-15 years time.

I think they are proposing the N24 instead of the M20 which is why people are rightly annoyed here.
We need both but purely on traffic figures and need, the M20 must be built first.

boardsuser1

The Green Party are very irritating

https://twitter.com/limerickgreens/status/922533825024004097

grogi

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

The Green Party are very irritating

https://twitter.com/limerickgreens/status/922533825024004097

Isn't that the party that gave us diesel bonanza?

They should be lobbying for a solution that reduces CO2 - thus a shorter Cork-Limerick route...

boardsuser1

grogi wrote: »

Isn't that the party that gave us diesel bonanza?

They should be lobbying for a solution that reduces CO2 - thus a shorter Cork-Limerick route...

They must have severe memory loss :pac:

irishfeen

Sorry if it has already discussed here but why don’t the government include in the M20 motorway project the provision of a high speed electric railway link between the 2 cities to run alongside the motorway - I know it would add a cost but add another 20-30m of land under the CPA’s and it would give plenty of room to construct the railway line at the same time.

I would love a bit of joined up thinking in this country with regards infrastructure. Motorways are not the evil elephant in the room, if anything with the realisation of electric cars over the next few decades they will provide a vital link in our aim to reduce emissions.

Calina

Do you know what the cost of a high speed electric railway would be?

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_à_grande_vitesse

The cost can vary between 8million and 66 million per kilometre depending on a range of factors including geology. Cork Limerick is ca 90km.

grogi

irishfeen wrote: »

Sorry if it has already discussed here but why don’t the government include in the M20 motorway project the provision of a high speed electric railway link between the 2 cities to run alongside the motorway - I know it would add a cost but add another 20-30m of land under the CPA’s and it would give plenty of room to construct the railway line at the same time.

I would love a bit of joined up thinking in this country with regards infrastructure. Motorways are not the evil elephant in the room, if anything with the realisation of electric cars over the next few decades they will provide a vital link in our aim to reduce emissions.

Not really enough volume to support it... And the distance is too short. If it was 300km that takes you three hours in a car, one would consider taking a train.

But building an electric line along it is a very good point.

irishfeen

Calina wrote: »

Do you know what the cost of a high speed electric railway would be?

Considerable I know but we are taking about the 2nd and 3rd cities in the country - we are going nowhere anytime soon, we will all be here in 40 Years time and we need to develop our infrastructure outside Dublin.

Keeping young people in Cork, Limerick, Galway, Kerry etc is vital to stop the rapid one sided growth in Dublin.

Calina

We dont even have high speed Cork to Dublin. Our distances tend not to demand it and nor do our populations.

irishfeen

Calina wrote: »

We dont even have high speed Cork to Dublin. Our distances tend not to demand it and nor do our populations.

Well that for me is probably the next vital piece of infrastructure... Cork - Dublin - Belfast should be linked with a high speed train. We need to allow people commute more in this country.

irishfeen

Calina wrote: »

Do you know what the cost of a high speed electric railway would be?

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_à_grande_vitesse

The cost can vary between 8million and 66 million per kilometre depending on a range of factors including geology. Cork Limerick is ca 90km.

The point is a project like a railway running alongside when building a motorway would be considerably less because the groundwork’s will already be taking place for the actual motorway - it would be akin to adding a lane and a half at the edge if it was designed correctly.

boardsuser1

Moran isn't getting much support so far.

https://twitter.com/spacetweek/status/922568483879116800

https://twitter.com/fullytogged/status/922563394443517952

https://twitter.com/treasa/status/922560118054461440

https://twitter.com/treasa/status/922560406014644224

Calina

irishfeen wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

Do you know what the cost of a high speed electric railway would be?

https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_à_grande_vitesse

The cost can vary between 8million and 66 million per kilometre depending on a range of factors including geology. Cork Limerick is ca 90km.

The point is a project like a railway running alongside when building a motorway would be considerably less because the groundwork’s will already be taking place for the actual motorway - it would be akin to adding a lane and a half at the edge if it was designed correctly.

You specified a high speed line. There has to be some distance between a high speed line and a motorway because of the buffeting of high speed trains. I don't think a lane and a half is adequate. The motorway will be carrying high sided trucks.

You also seem to be assuming the engineering requirements will be similar. I doubt that is a safe assumption.

irishfeen

Calina wrote: »

You specified a high speed line. There has to be some distance between a high speed line and a motorway because of the buffeting of high speed trains. I don't think a lane and a half is adequate. The motorway will be carrying high sided trucks.

You also seem to be assuming the engineering requirements will be similar. I doubt that is a safe assumption.

Well even the likes of an elevated track over the main highway would be an option or equally under the level of the road.

It’s 2017, the yanks landed on the moon in the 60’s ... this would be very much possible with the engineering capibilities in Ireland today.

boardsuser1

Have people voted on this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057800406

grogi

Calina wrote: »

You specified a high speed line. There has to be some distance between a high speed line and a motorway because of the buffeting of high speed trains. I don't think a lane and a half is adequate. The motorway will be carrying high sided trucks.

You also seem to be assuming the engineering requirements will be similar. I doubt that is a safe assumption.

What's more, there isn't enough business justification for high-speed on such distance. Just a couple of minutes of advantage.

But reserving a land for a regular speed train is not a bad idea. We don't need to build it now - just need to plan ahead.

Calina

The issue isn't really engineering. It is the economic cost of that engineering.

irishfeen

Calina wrote: »

The issue isn't really engineering. It is the economic cost of that engineering.

Well yes I know there would be major cost implications but there is absolutely nothing in planning for the Ireland of 2037. Set aside land at least and give the opportunity for infrastructure improvements.