M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

JCX BXC

They rebuilt the Western rail corridor, yet it's not close to high speed. I think that says enough about our infastructure endeavours.

jasper100

irishfeen wrote: »

Well even the likes of an elevated track over the main highway would be an option or equally under the level of the road.

It’s 2017, the yanks landed on the moon in the 60’s ... this would be very much possible with the engineering capibilities in Ireland today.

It's an absurd proposal. Railways like long straight sections with a small gradient.

Roads can take a more meandering route.

You are talking of investing billions in a crazy project.

Once the road is built buses would be capable of city centre to city centre in 1 hour.

marno21

I cannot understand for the life of me why every time the M20 is proposed, a diluted version, which would cost a small amount less (the M20 will cost less simply because 25km of it will be online Croom/Velvetstown/Mallow-Cork - assuming the same route is selected.)

Why in the name of God is connecting Limerick with Ireland's 5th city more important than connecting Ireland with Ireland's 2nd city? Cork has an airport with flights to plenty of destinations not served by Shannon (small towns such as Paris, Liverpool, Amsterdam, Munich and Madrid) - Waterford has no such airport. Cork has a tier 1 container port, a ferry port, a University, a large IT, and plenty of industry that would greatly benefit from increased connectivity to Shannon Airport and Foynes port (which will connect directly to the M20 at Patrickswell).

Spending 600m on connecting Limerick to Waterford benefits Limerick how?

pat ticket wrote: »

Bizarre by the local Greens, especially bizarre by
a Cork North Central area rep. You might expect them to either suggest increased PT spending as an alternative, or focus on the potential negative effects the M20 will have on spatial planning etc.

But to propose what they have is nonsensical.

He should try telling that to the people of Cork North Central. See how much his Waterford love gets then.

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Moran isn't getting much support so far.

https://twitter.com/spacetweek/status/922568483879116800

https://twitter.com/fullytogged/status/922563394443517952

https://twitter.com/treasa/status/922560118054461440

https://twitter.com/treasa/status/922560406014644224

Good to see him being taken to it with this kind of ****e talk.

boardsuser1

A reply from Oliver Moran last night.

Isambard

I'm a massive rail fan always have been, but even I can see that rail has had it's day. Improve what we have between major centres but forget new lines such as discussed ehere

Pete_Cavan

Allowance would only have to be made for a new rail line between Charleville and Patrickswell. It would be madness not to take enough land and to design the motorway to accommodate an adjacent rail line, whether rails need to be laid now or not. It's an extra 10m strip for 30km. Obviously it shouldn't be done to high speed standards, just to a good standard, reflective of the rest of the network.

nordydan

Isambard wrote: »

I'm a massive rail fan always have been, but even I can see that rail has had it's day. Improve what we have between major centres but forget new lines such as discussed ehere

The only place I could see would be a direct line between Newry & Lisburn but way off topic and about 100 years off!

Mc Love

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Allowance would only have to be made for a new rail line between Charleville and Patrickswell. It would be madness not to take enough land and to design the motorway to accommodate an adjacent rail line, whether rails need to be laid now or not. It's an extra 10m strip for 30km. Obviously it shouldn't be done to high speed standards, just to a good standard, reflective of the rest of the network.

There's a rail line from Patrickswell to Raheen/Dooradoyle to the city that could be used if our government were any good.

I'd definitely take that from a Dooradoyle stop than drive to work.

boardsuser1

Off topic.

John P. Feehan has now stopped complaining about the M20.


He has targeted Donal òg Cusack instead.

marno21

David Stanton, who never did anything whatsoever to get the M20 back on the table, is waxing lyrical about how great it is now that it's been restarted

https://www.thecork.ie/2017/10/24/cork-limerick-motorway-cork-junior-minister-welcomes-funding-allocation-long-term-project-could-be-up-to-10-years-away/

marno21

A railway would require less steep gradients than a motorway, and if it followed the motorway it wouldn't be able to service any areas between Charleville and Patrickswell.

There's also an issue regarding the lack of space along the Croom bypass where the M20 will run.

A non runner being realistic.

trellheim

Remember this is base infrastructure ; what happens in 50 years time - rail may well turn out to be the better option then ( lets assume theres a 50 euro toll charge on M20 ! )

boardsuser1

marno21 wrote: »

David Stanton, who never did anything whatsoever to get the M20 back on the table, is waxing lyrical about how great it is now that it's been restarted

https://www.thecork.ie/2017/10/24/cork-limerick-motorway-cork-junior-minister-welcomes-funding-allocation-long-term-project-could-be-up-to-10-years-away/

I didn't think his constituency ran into M20 territory. (I'm being sarcastic)

The Midleton to Youghal railway and the Midleton to Youghal Bypass are 2 things he should be working on.

I'm being realistic that an M25 won't happen in the next 50 years.

Reputable Rog

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

I didn't think his constituency ran into M20 territory. (I'm being sarcastic)

The Midleton to Youghal railway and the Midleton to Youghal Bypass are 2 things he should be working on.

I'm being realistic that an M25 won't happen in the next 50 years.

That stretch of railway is a proposed greenway. Unfortunately a lot of the line has been annexed and a lot of structures have been built on it, without planning permission I might add.

boardsuser1

Thread here on it

http://touch.boards.ie/thread/2057139245/1/#post88787610

Reputable Rog wrote: »

That stretch of railway is a proposed greenway. Unfortunately a lot of the line has been annexed and a lot of structures have been built on it, without planning permission I might add.

I’d better get back on topic now.

David Tucker

The basic premise of the M20 per many contributors are:
The size of Cork (200,000 people) and relative importance of Limerick (100,000 people).
The potential new accessibility of Limerick/Shannon Airport/Foynes port & Galway/Ennis to Cork
The importance of Mallow, Charleville, Blarney and Cork North ring economically to the region.
Discussions about TGV's/ fast railways and motorways to Waterford are completely missing the point to this new potential road.
Are we missing something here?

pigtown

David Tucker wrote: »

The basic premise of the M20 per many contributors are:
The size of Cork (200,000 people) and relative importance of Limerick (100,000 people).
The potential new accessibility of Limerick/Shannon Airport/Foynes port & Galway/Ennis to Cork
The importance of Mallow, Charleville, Blarney and Cork North ring economically to the region.
Discussions about TGV's/ fast railways and motorways to Waterford are completely missing the point to this new potential road.
Are we missing something here?

Obviously TGVs are never going to happen but if we're taking about enhancing the connectivity between Limerick and Cork then a suggestion to buy enough additional land parallel to the new road for a 30 km stretch of railway between Charleville and Patrickswell is surely relevant to the discussion.

Cookiemunster

pigtown wrote: »

Obviously TGVs are never going to happen but if we're taking about enhancing the connectivity between Limerick and Cork then a suggestion to buy enough additional land parallel to the new road for a 30 km stretch of railway between Charleville and Patrickswell is surely relevant to the discussion.

Parallel is the problem word here. Roads are rarely straight. They swerve around terrain and settlements for cost reasons and can have pretty tight turns, which railways can't have. While I agree that a direct line between Limerick and Cork should be built, I doubt it would be viable to go parallel to the motorway.

AugustusMinimus

Why on earth was the old line closed?

pigtown

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Parallel is the problem word here. Roads are rarely straight. They swerve around terrain and settlements for cost reasons and can have pretty tight turns, which railways can't have. While I agree that a direct line between Limerick and Cork should be built, I doubt it would be viable to go parallel to the motorway.

That might be the case but there's nothing stopping the government from investigating the feasibility of it, or even choosing an alignment that will work for both road and rail.

Cookiemunster

pigtown wrote: »

That might be the case but there's nothing stopping the government from investigating the feasibility of it, or even choosing an alignment that will work for both road and rail.

It all comes down to money. If running a rail line alongside the motorway increases the cost of the motorway, it won't be done.

pigtown

Cookiemunster wrote: »

It all comes down to money. If running a rail line alongside the motorway increases the cost of the motorway, it won't be done.

You're probably right but I'd like a minister to explicitly say this, given the mounting evidence that sustainable public transport is more important than ever.

JCX BXC

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Why on earth was the old line closed?

Was closed back in the 1960's with countless other lines, there was a massive cull of routes back at that time.

boardsuser1

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Why on earth was the old line closed?

JCX BXC wrote: »

Was closed back in the 1960's with countless other lines, there was a massive cull of routes back at that time.

Which line?

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Mc Love

It's mad to think the country was so well connected with rail and then just abandoned. The country has gone backwards

pigtown

Well as we know from the entirely predictable state of the Ennis-Athenry line most of the alignments are no longer fit for purpose and wouldn't be able to compete with private transport.

marno21

Mc Love wrote: »

It's mad to think the country was so well connected with rail and then just abandoned. The country has gone backwards

It hasn't.

A lot of these railways had poor alignments and wouldn't be competitive with modern road based transport. In addition to that, passenger numbers on a lot of them would be very low and require obscene operating subventions, along with issues with infrastructure renewal.

I can understand the Dingle/Achill railways being shut etc but not preserving parts of the Charleville-Limerick alignment was shortsighted

zetalambda

David Tucker wrote: »

The basic premise of the M20 per many contributors are:
The size of Cork (200,000 people) and relative importance of Limerick (100,000 people).
The potential new accessibility of Limerick/Shannon Airport/Foynes port & Galway/Ennis to Cork
The importance of Mallow, Charleville, Blarney and Cork North ring economically to the region.
Discussions about TGV's/ fast railways and motorways to Waterford are completely missing the point to this new potential road.
Are we missing something here?

This road will not just cater for the people in Cork and Limerick cities. The residents of Cork county and Limerick county will use it too! I'd imagine people in Clare, Galway and north Tipp that would never consider using the current road because of it's condition may be inclined to once it's built to motorway standard giving it a catchment area of a million plus peoples.

Reputable Rog

I'm starting to think that N72 from Killarney to outside Waterford should be rebuilt to motorway standard, it could connect to the Waterford City bypass and in turn onto the M9/M7 and would provide for a much needed bypass of Mallow, Ballyhooly, Lismore and so on.
A truly cross provincial route if you like.