M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Aontachtoir

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I'm starting that N72 from Killarney to outside Waterford should be rebuilt to motorway standard, it could connect to the Waterford City bypass and in turn onto the M9/M7 and would provide for a much needed bypass of Mallow, Ballyhooly, Lismore and so on.
A truly cross provincial route if you like.

Far off in the future, that sounds great, if the traffic volumes increase to justify it. However, we should never end up in a situation where the main road from Killarney to Mallow is in better shape than the main road from Killarney to Cork or from Tralee to Limerick. If they're all motorway standard (which I don't think is necessary, 2+2 should suffice for most of it), then by all means go ahead with the N72 HQDC.

JCX BXC

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/278999/gardai-called-to-road-collision-in-co-limerick.html

Another accident! Would nearly put you in fear of travelling on the road.

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Far off in the future, that sounds great, if the traffic volumes increase to justify it. However, we should never end up in a situation where the main road from Killarney to Mallow is in better shape than the main road from Killarney to Cork or from Tralee to Limerick. If they're all motorway standard (which I don't think is necessary, 2+2 should suffice for most of it), then by all means go ahead with the N72 HQDC.

Many national secondaries are being made redundant for end-end travel now by the heavily upgraded national primary network. The N72 is one of these (also the N52, N63, N66 (now detrunked), N78, N84 etc).

Back when the N72 was designated, the alternative (N22 - N25) via Cork required going through Ballyvourney, Macroom, Lissarda, Ballincollig, Cork, Glountane, Carrigtwohill, Midleton, Castlemartyr, Killeagh, Youghal, Dungarvan. A total of 12 places, including requiring going through the city centre of Cork. Since then, 6 have been bypassed and 2 further are to be bypassed by 2020.

Back then, the N72 required going through Barraduff, Rathmore, Mallow, Castletownroche, Ballyhooly, Fermoy, Lismore, Tallow hairpin, Cappoquin. You still have to go through all of these places and 90% of the road is still pathetic.

Nowadays, Dungarvan-Killarney is best done with the N25/N22, especially after Dunkettle and Macroom are done. The N72 now becomes a town to town road (Killarney-Mallow, Mallow-Fermoy, Fermoy-Dungarvan) instead of Killarney-Dungarvan.

limklad

Most of the traffic from cork goes from the city to the far side of Mallow. From Limerick side most of the traffic goes to the far side of Charleville, while the reminder between Mallow and Charleville. That is the worst part of the road.

HS Trains needs lots of straight stretches and gentle bends plus to be viable, It needs to limits stops long distance stops. It needs lots of direct traffic between the cities. Also the new motorway gives better access for Galway and connaght traffic to get to cork safer at weekends.

The motorway was already designed, before the project was shut down just before CPO was enacted due to the 2008 recession.

A High Speed railway line is useless as most traffic is within local reach between both cities. Also people are currently limiting their travel due to current bottlenecks and due to nutty drives (both slow careless drivers and impatient speed manics). Most deaths are due to poor roads with a combination of poor drivers. Better roads safe lives.

Most of motorway bends are too large for HS Trains.
A HS Train is needed between Cork and Dublin and Belfast. Our current railways are insufficient for HS and they have the best of straight stretches.

Calina

The distance between Cork and Limerick makes it unsuitable for high speed rail. Express bus services along the motorway would be more efficient and economic. Even if you looked at extending the line from Cork to Galway, it's still unlikely to create a large enough market for point to point from Cork/Limerick to Galway and vice versa for the cost of building it to be economically worth while.

Stopping the train at Mallow and Charleville and maybe Patrickswell would make it non-high speed. IMO, looking at this in the context of a motorway is ludicrous, it needs to be looked at in the context of a national rail plan and its needs rather than attempting to do it on the cheap at this point.

Most motorways tend to be a good deal straighter than many roads. I don't see the fact that it's a road impacting on the design of a railway too much. But I do see the fact that the points to be connected really, really would be better served by bus until we look at a heavy rail in a national context.

markodaly

What would the distance be from Cork to Limerick if/when this road is built? About 100km?

As a Dub I want to see investment in commuter transport around Dublin city, such as Metro North and DU but this road is a no brainer to me.

Copper_pipe

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/279069/o-rourke-s-cross-works-motor-on-despite-green-light-for-limerick-cork-motorway.html

boardsuser1

Copper_pipe wrote: »

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/279069/o-rourke-s-cross-works-motor-on-despite-green-light-for-limerick-cork-motorway.html

Personally the jury is out on this one, i'm very familiar with the road.

Is the northbound bus stop going to remain in place as a result?

The GoSafe/Gatso vans are well known to park there, this will move them on now as a result of this one must assume.

boardsuser1

Rachael Bermingham is a member of a party who were turfed out of government (and the Dail in 2011) do the Green Party not know when to keep quiet.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/279056/m20-priority-offers-certainty-says-limerick-junior-minister.html

marno21

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Personally the jury is out on this one, i'm very familiar with the road.

Is the northbound bus stop going to remain in place as a result?

The GoSafe/Gatso vans are well known to park there, this will move them on now as a result of this one must assume.

Another 2 million tacked off the price of the M20

Leonard Hofstadter

Cork Truck Driver wrote: »

Rachael Bermingham is a member of a party who were turfed out of government (and the Dail in 2011) do the Green Party not know when to keep quiet.

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/279056/m20-priority-offers-certainty-says-limerick-junior-minister.html

I know, it's pure bonkers like! Any other route than the M20 is longer therefore more pollution and worse for the environment. Also, given that most of the traffic on the N20 is not doing the whole journey it will needs to be upgraded, therefore the Government's approach is undoubtedly the correct one.

pajoguy

Incident tonight on N20 south of Banogue. Just passed it 20 mins ago. Down to one lane. Only saw 1 car but it was too dark to see much. Ambulance and fire brigades present with plenty lighting. Road is open so hopefully not fatal. Windscreen lookes pretty smashed up.

Reputable Rog

pajoguy wrote: »

Incident tonight on N20 south of Banogue. Just passed it 20 mins ago. Down to one lane. Only saw 1 car but it was too dark to see much. Ambulance and fire brigades present with plenty lighting. Road is open so hopefully not fatal. Windscreen lookes pretty smashed up.

Passed that way around 9:45, passed back at 10:20 and blue lights everywhere.
There's a horse lying on the verge of the northbound lane.

pajoguy

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Passed that way around 9:45, passed back at 10:20 and blue lights everywhere.
There's a horse lying on the verge of the northbound lane.

That might explain why we think we only saw one vehicle.

Reputable Rog

pajoguy wrote: »

That might explain why we think we only saw one vehicle.

Forgot to say that there's only one vehicle involved.

Reputable Rog

According to my sources, who are close to the process, the Irish bid died the minute the technical team looked outside Dublin, and in particular, one of the key weaknesses was the lack of adequate roads in the Munster area.

“They were shocked by the lack of motorway or even highways in the Munster region and that, coupled with the major concerns over high-speed internet connections to the various stadia, meant the Irish bid was dead by the time they passed the M50,” one mole told me.
Daniel McConnell writing in today's Irish Examiner.
I have to laugh, the IRFU have been moaning for years about the state of the N20 but seemed to overlook this little detail when bidding for the RWC.

road_high

Reputable Rog wrote: »

According to my sources, who are close to the process, the Irish bid died the minute the technical team looked outside Dublin, and in particular, one of the key weaknesses was the lack of adequate roads in the Munster area.

“They were shocked by the lack of motorway or even highways in the Munster region and that, coupled with the major concerns over high-speed internet connections to the various stadia, meant the Irish bid was dead by the time they passed the M50,” one mole told me.
Daniel McConnell writing in today's Irish Examiner.
I have to laugh, the IRFU have been moaning for years about the state of the N20 but seemed to overlook this little detail when bidding for the RWC.

I'd well believe it too. And the Games are in 2023 (just 5 years away) with almost zero movement on any of the major infrastructural such as the M20 or any of the Dublin metro/rail projects. Not a hope any of that would be started and ready in such a short time frame.
I'm 20% glad the bid fell flat on it's arse, it might be the kick up the hole certain quarters need in this country to address the massive infrastructural deficit we have. I can live in hope

road_high

Weren't Cork, limerick and Killarney all part of the bid? If you look at the 3 roads connecting each, they are all woeful really. And only very woolly plans to do bits of each.

Middle Man

Reputable Rog wrote: »

According to my sources, who are close to the process, the Irish bid died the minute the technical team looked outside Dublin, and in particular, one of the key weaknesses was the lack of adequate roads in the Munster area.

“They were shocked by the lack of motorway or even highways in the Munster region and that, coupled with the major concerns over high-speed internet connections to the various stadia, meant the Irish bid was dead by the time they passed the M50,” one mole told me.
Daniel McConnell writing in today's Irish Examiner.
I have to laugh, the IRFU have been moaning for years about the state of the N20 but seemed to overlook this little detail when bidding for the RWC.

A lesson that Ireland has to learn - simple as!

MayoSalmon

You'll find many a N20 in South Africa which topped the recommendation. Ireland is a tiny country in the world and a ****e 2 hour journey from Limerick to Cork isn't going to stop a bid from winning. The stadiums are why the bid is on its knees that and the fact both other countries have held numerous world events.

zetalambda

MayoSalmon wrote: »

You'll find many a N20 in South Africa which topped the recommendation. Ireland is a tiny country in the world and a ****e 2 hour journey from Limerick to Cork isn't going to stop a bid from winning. The stadiums are why the bid is on its knees that and the fact both other countries have held numerous world events.

The stadiums in South Africa are unreal. They even make the French ones look outdated and decrepit not to mind the Irish ones.

corinthion

Lads i dont want to get away from the forum but the world cup bib was a eye opener to everybody , we should look at our country.

The infrastructure is this country in shocking compared to other countries (even the so called poor countries have better roads)
broadband is terrible in some areas , i still know of places where they cant broadband
phone signals are poor .
our best stadiums are not great, pairc ui chaoimh which is only done up is like a 3rd rate stadium in some countries
The price of hotels are a rip off when anything comes to town
papers,food ,transport etc are all more expensive than other countries

i could go on , but our government should really have a look at this and try to improve all these before we ever think of trying to host anything huge.
sorry for going away from the forum, but rant over

JCX BXC

I don't think it was an eye opener, it was clear to anyone with their head screwed on right that we currently don't have the infastructure for such an event, even down to things like stadiums and sufficient hotel rooms.

As for the rest of what you said, I think it's just a rant against Ireland. Phone signals poor? Really? We've fairly good signal as long as you're not in rural Connemara, we have have some of the cheapest phone packages in the world. Again, broadband only unable in very rural areas. In terms of cost, we have the highest standard of living and hence cost of living of all countries in the bid. Other countries are only cheaper because people tend to be poorer. Be glad you're not in Scandinavia!

pigtown

Lads has anyone read the report? The connections between the cities was barely mentioned.

swoofer

When comparing like with like we are ripped off big time. The M20 would have been highlighted in the report if it was in existence.

Everyone and his dog know we talks things up and then try and go with the " Aw sure it will be all right" Tell that to the people ripped off by the banks, the people with Pyrite houses, the cost of health insurance, the state of the A&E in limerick. The list is endless.

PS I forgot to mention that garda fiasco.

roadmaster

zetalambda wrote: »

The stadiums in South Africa are unreal. They even make the French ones look outdated and decrepit not to mind the Irish ones.

The SA stadiums maybe on real but they are nothing but empty white elephants.

keane2097

Sounds like most of the GAA stadiums here only without the onreel bit.

Middle Man

roadmaster wrote: »

The SA stadiums maybe on real but they are nothing but empty white elephants.

...which is a good reason to hold the Rugby World Cup there - get at least another good use out of those stadiums instead of letting them rot.

roadmaster

keane2097 wrote: »

Sounds like most of the GAA stadiums here only without the onreel bit.

An its basically true, you take the average county ground it gets we say 4 NFL games and Maybe 3 Championship games a year of which if even one is sold out its a very good year.

That is then 7 times a year its used for inter county, It will be then used occasionally for club games but most of the time they dont want to let clubs play there anyway.

One of the main reasons i wanted Ireland to get the RWC was for selfish reasons as i taught it would make the current government and the permanent government get there ass in gear and get the likes of the M20, Metro etc going.

The idea of spending millions on stadiums i think is mental, Considering they will only be used a handful of times. Maybe my standards are a lot lower than they should be but i would only give the stadiums a lick of paint essentially .

Bring the toilets up to standard and have one good stand at each venue and use the existing terraces. Catering can be done the same as at concerts and media can be done the same as sky does for there OB coverage. If it came down to spending 20/30 Million on stadiums in Munster i would rather see that going on the M20 instead

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we return to the M20 and leave the RWC discussion to the sports field.