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M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]
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Smoke and mirrors, that is all. We do not have the population or density at the moment to support large scale funding into more inter urban rail.
There is a direct train from Cork to Dublin, yet many people use the road instead of a train. I heard that for everyone one passanger on a train in Cork, there is two going by bus. That is not even taking in people who drive themselvevs or who drive from the likes of Fermoy, Cashel and so on.
What are the daily passanger numbers for the Limerick train? Compare that with any commuter train in the GDA. You will get your answer to your question then.
Mark I don't believe it's unreasonable to think that a major investment that will have far reaching consequences should be rigorously analysed by experts before it's approved. This includes all possible alternatives, if only to rule them out.What are you on about. Motorways do NOT transport goods an people from urban areas to small town and one off houses.
Our motorway network at the moment connects urban centres to other urban centres. Waterford to Dublin, Cork to Dublin, Galway to Dublin.
Now with the M17/18 we connect Limerick to Galway and onwards to Tuam, with the long term strategy here is going to be Sligo and Derry over the next 10-20 years.
That is why the rules surrounding motorways developments are much stricter then that of other roads. For example, you cannot have a junction on a Motorway leading into a housing estate or some retail park. Its against the law to have junctions like that. It is why junctions on Motorways are restricted.
The M20 will primarily be a road to connect the two biggest urban centres in the country, outside of Dublin of course. It will also connect Galway/Cork to each other and in future it will connect Sligo and Derry to the southern cities.
I get the concept of the Atlantic Corridor and planning restrictions around junctions. The point I'm making is that a significant proportion of motorway traffic doesn't travel end to end, it travels from the cities to smaller towns and villages. This goes against what the government claim they want to achieve with growing Limerick and Cork.
The figures are available in the report done by Limerick and Cork Chambers in support of the project.Your last point negates your point about rail, so not sure what you are on about.
My last point is to illustrate that living and working in the same area is the best option, but if you need connectivity then rail should be considered (and dismissed if it's not viable).0 -
Reputable Rog wrote: »Sshh Pigtown will try and take an injunction if he sees this.
Scuppering his dream of everyone living in 35 storey tower blocks and everyone travelling by Mono Rail powered by hemp oil and travelling intercity by bullet train.
Nice addition to the discussion there Rog, well done.0 -
Cork has a substantial amount of US companies (Pharma + IT), most business travelers use Cork airport to connect to the US via Heathrow, CDG, Schiphol. These hub airports provide the range of destinations and frequency which is required by MN's, which Shannon can't provide, even with the new motorway this won't change.
We need to invest in both motorway's as well as city infrastructure, an either or argument is ridiculous.
Yes, connections to the likes of Heathrow, CDG and AMS is important. But connections to the likes of Boston, JFK and Newark, which Shannon provides is also important. Fly to one of those airports and can basically go anywhere in the US.
This is not an argument about one airport being better than the other.
A real game changer here would be one of the Middle East airlines having flights to either Cork or Shannon. Dublin has 5 flights a day to the ME and none anywhere else in Ireland. There is definitely room for a flight maybe 2 or 3 times a week. Connecting these urban centres together would facilitate this 100%0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »
For example, in that context, I think the money would be better spent on a northern ring road for Cork and a bridge from Tivoli to the Docklands and also developing the docklands.
The latter of these are already being planned. We can do a few things at once.0 -
Charles Babbage wrote: »But many posters here are anti Irish and wish to eliminate any distinctive Irish characteristics.
Oh FFS!0 -
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The latter of these are already being planned. We can do a few things at once.
https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6
If you look at statistics in above map, a motorway to Midleton to far more important, also the south ring is close if not over capacity, a northern ring road would alleviate this a lot.
I would prioritise both those projects above a motorway to Limerick0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6
If you look here the statistic dont even make it seem very necessary.
There isnt a large number of people commuting from Cork to Limerick and vice versa so theres actually busier roads in worse condition which will never get a motorway.
You can see the number of road users really drops off after Mallow, which show lots of people commuting from Mallow to Cork.
The road from Clonakilty/Bandon to Cork is just as busy but nobody is suggesting a motorway for that.
Its actually just not that busy a road. The road from Midleton to Cork is far, far busier.
Eh, No.
Can you give us a breakdown on which N roads are busier than the N20 in more detail?
The existing M9 has lower traffic than the N20
The existing M17/18 has lower traffic than the N20
Middleton is suburban traffic, just like Blarney, just like Bandon. You may as well say the South Ring road is due to be upgraded because its busier! A stupid argument.
The M20 is to connect two big Urban centres, it is not created to help commuters from say Blarney, as the M20 ends there!
The road drops off after Mallow because its well known to be the worse N road in the country connecting two cities. Have a look back on this thread. You often see this road blocked with livestock!
By the way, the Bandon/Clon road is nowhere near as busy, so your telling porkies.0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6
If you look at statistics in above map, a motorway to Midleton to far more important, also the south ring is close if not over capacity, a northern ring road would alleviate this a lot.
I would prioritise both those projects above a motorway to Limerick
The road to Midelton is already a Dual Carriageway but eventually should be upgraded to an M road as this would be part of the Atlantic corridor to Waterford.
The South Ring Road is an orbital route and cannot be upgraded to Motorway due to the way it was built day one.
The North Ring Road is a nice to have, but then you are contradicting yourself there about sprawl.
If you are concerned about Sprawl, you should be very very concerned about this road, as orbital routes definitely add to this. Inter urban routes, not so much. Also, upgrade the commuter route to Midleton before linking Cork up to Limerick and say you are concerned about sprawl? Makes no sense.0 -
The road to Midelton is already a Dual Carriageway but eventually should be upgraded to an M road as this would be part of the Atlantic corridor to Waterford.
The South Ring Road is an orbital route and cannot be upgraded to Motorway due to the way it was built day one.
The North Ring Road is a nice to have, but then you are contradicting yourself there about sprawl.
If you are concerned about Sprawl, you should be very very concerned about this road, as orbital routes definitely add to this. Inter urban routes, not so much. Also, upgrade the commuter route to Midleton before linking Cork up to Limerick and say you are concerned about sprawl? Makes no sense.
The function of the northern ring road would be the alleviate congestion on the south ring which is at capacity, it would also reduce congestion in the city center, as well as Blackpool and the Dunkettle roundabout and Jack Lynch Tunnel. Its a no-brainer really.
It has nothing to do with sprawl, sprawl is due to bad planning. This would be good planning. It would make the city more functional and livable.
Anyway I dont think I mentioned sprawl before. I just said I agree with the economist insofar as that the money could be better spent on developing the actual cities.0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »The function of the northern ring road would be the alleviate congestion on the south ring which is at capacity, it would also reduce congestion in the city center, as well as Blackpool and the Dunkettle roundabout and Jack Lynch Tunnel. Its a no-brainer really.
I agree, the NRR will come and it will come sooner when the M20 is being built.It has nothing to do with sprawl, sprawl is due to bad planning. This would be good planning. It would make the city more functional and livable.
Your UCD economist would totally disagree with you on that point.Anyway I dont think I mentioned sprawl before. I just said I agree with the economist insofar as that the money could be better spent on developing the actual cities.
As above, this economist warns against sprawl and the NRR would certainly be more risky in this regard then the M20. In other words, if your economist friend was given a choice between the two roads, and what one would lead to greater sprawl, he would 100% choose the NRR as its an orbital route.
In fact, I would say we should have the M20 first and look after things like the Cork Docklands at the same time before we touch the NRR, as if the NRR was done first, it would be akin to the M50.0 -
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Eh, No.
Can you give us a breakdown on which N roads are busier than the N20 in more detail?
The existing M9 has lower traffic than the N20
The existing M17/18 has lower traffic than the N20
Middleton is suburban traffic, just like Blarney, just like Bandon. You may as well say the South Ring road is due to be upgraded because its busier! A stupid argument.
The M20 is to connect two big Urban centres, it is not created to help commuters from say Blarney, as the M20 ends there!
The road drops off after Mallow because its well known to be the worse N road in the country connecting two cities. Have a look back on this thread. You often see this road blocked with livestock!
By the way, the Bandon/Clon road is nowhere near as busy, so your telling porkies.
Data points between Clonakilty and Cork, average of 16/17: 9300 , 15000, 19500
Data points between Patrickwell and Cork,average of 16/17: 14000, 10000, 14000
Yep, Im telling porkies0 -
The road is shocking. It needs a major upgrade. You choices are dual carriageway or motorway. That is the basics of it.0
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Middleton is suburban traffic, just like Blarney, just like Bandon. You may as well say the South Ring road is due to be upgraded because its busier! A stupid argument.
The road from Cork to Midleton and onto Castlemartyr isn't suburban, its 30km away, its commuter traffic alright though.
I dont see how its a "stupid argument", its twice as busy and handles a lot of port traffic too such as artic trucks.
Anyway sprawl can be controlled as we have planning and zoning laws, and if Cork is supposed to be a counter point to Dublin it will need to expand somewhat, I dont think the docklands will be able to cater for all the population increase.0 -
This motorway will pass through about 5 different constituencies, that's why it will happen, wins votes and keeps people happy.
Its not because its good planning.0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »This motorway will pass through about 5 different constituencies, that's why it will happen, wins votes and keeps people happy.
Its not because its good planning.
Were you against the M17/M18 scheme?0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »Data points between Clonakilty and Cork, average of 16/17: 9300 , 15000, 19500
Data points between Patrickwell and Cork,average of 16/17: 14000, 10000, 14000
Yep, Im telling porkies
Don't bull**** by hiding behind numbers.
On the N71
The Clonakilty marker: 9296
The Halfway/Innishshannon marker: 15000
The Innishshannon /Ballyhassig marker: 19710
To compare like with like we need to compare 3 markets coming out of Cork.
The halfway between Buttevant and Charleville marker: 10345
The halfway to Mallow from Blarney marker: 16853
The Blarney marker: 21738
From whatever reason there is no Mallow NRA traffic marker. You can see that traffic is higher on all the equivalent points.
Mallow is 36km from Cork
Clonakilty is 52km from Cork
Patrickswell that is 11km from Limerick and 90km from Cork!!
You may as well put in Bantry as a fair comparison (83Km from Cork) AADT marker says it gets 6009 movements a day.
So, now we have that point debunked. What N road is busier than the N20?0 -
AugustusMinimus wrote: »Were you against the M17/M18 scheme?
I wasnt aware of it at the time of planning for some reason, but I presume I would have been against it. It looks like an Enda Kenny vanity project to me. Frank McDonald wrote an article about it being a waste of money but that was a few years ago.
Like I said, motorways cross through lots of constituencies so they win votes and keep people happy. Gives politicians something tangible to point at and say "now, sure look didnt I get ye that'.
As opposed to social schemes that would cost far less, benefit more people in the long run but there's nothing to point at.0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »I wasnt aware of it at the time of planning for some reason, but I presume I would have been against it. It looks like an Enda Kenny vanity project to me. Frank McDonald wrote an article about it being a waste of money but that was a few years ago.
Like I said, motorways cross through lots of constituencies so they win votes and keep people happy. Gives politicians something tangible to point at and say "now, sure look didnt I get ye that'.
As opposed to social schemes that would cost far less, benefit more people in the long run but there's nothing to point at.
What sort of social schemes? The N20 probably has the highest number of road deaths of any road in Ireland.0 -
Don't bull**** by hiding behind numbers.
On the N71
The Clonakilty marker: 9296
The Halfway/Innishshannon marker: 15000
The Innishshannon /Ballyhassig marker: 19710
To compare like with like we need to compare 3 markets coming out of Cork.
The halfway between Buttevant and Charleville marker: 10345
The halfway to Mallow from Blarney marker: 16853
The Blarney marker: 21738
From whatever reason there is no Mallow NRA traffic marker. You can see that traffic is higher on all the equivalent points.
Mallow is 36km from Cork
Clonakilty is 52km from Cork
Patrickswell that is 11km from Limerick and 90km from Cork!!
You may as well put in Bantry as a fair comparison (83Km from Cork) AADT marker says it gets 6009 movements a day.
So, now we have that point debunked. What N road is busier than the N20?
Eh, the Blarney marker isnt on the planned M20 so I didnt count it. Why would you count a marker thats not actually on the planned motorway? Makes no sense, Im not sure whos the bull****ter hiding behind numbers.
I counted 3 markers between Clonakilty and Cork, and 3 markers between Patrickswell and Cork.
I proved my point. Its a busier road.
Also the Castlemartyr/Midleton to Cork road is far, far busier. So that's 2 N roads.
Point proven, case closed, time for leaba0 -
orangerhyme wrote: »The road from Cork to Midleton and onto Castlemartyr isn't suburban, its 30km away, its commuter traffic alright though.
I dont see how its a "stupid argument", its twice as busy and handles a lot of port traffic too such as artic trucks.
The M25 especially from Midleton has traffic from Waterford/Roslare, commuters from east Cork/Midleton, industrial traffic from Cobh/Little Island and leads to the Dunkettle round about, the busiest interchange outside the M50.
Yes, its a busy road, yet, this road is already a DC up past Midleton. That 30Km from Cork, is already a DC. This is actually part of the Atlantic Corridor. It will and should be upgraded at some stage but not now.
The road from Cork to Limerick is all SC with a few over taking places before Mallow, this is deemed more of a priority now. In 5 years time, if the M20 is being built, I am sure eyes will turn to this section.0 -
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orangerhyme wrote: »Eh, the Blarney marker isnt on the planned M20 so I didnt count it.
I think you will find that it is. Now the route isn't set yet, but the last plan did have the road bypassing Blarney by the N20. So it makes perfect sense to include that. More sense than including Patrickswell that is 90Km away from Cork anyway. May as well include Bantry instead. :PAlso the Castlemartyr/Midleton to Cork road is far, far busier. So that's 2 N roads.
As I said, that is a DC up past Midelton.0 -
I think you will find that it is. Now the route isn't set yet, but the last plan did have the road bypassing Blarney by the N20. So it makes perfect sense to include that. More sense than including Patrickswell that is 90Km away from Cork anyway. May as well include Bantry instead. :P
As I said, that is a DC up past Midelton.
http://www.irishmotorwayinfo.com/inex/roads/m20/m20.html
You can check this map. The marker is clearly not on the planned motorway. The marker outside Patrickswell clearly is on the planned motorway. I dont understand why you would count a marker thats not on the planned motorway and disregard one thats on the planned motorway.
I genuinely dont know what you dont understand. Its clearly a busier road. I cant have made myself clearer and I proved my case with actual data and facts.
The Castlemartyr road is an N road. Thats just two in Cork, I havent even checked the rest of the country but theres surely more.0 -
A new road, gives a lot of grief to landowners. Not sure where people see votes in it? There may be relief for many town dwellers on the old route.0
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I don't know to be honest. I enjoy driving on motorways as much as anyone else and getting stuck behind a tractor at Gort used to annoy me greatly. But at the same time the new road has done absolutely nothing to progress Galway city itself and it's not a particularly busy road. I guess I'm just if the view that cities and large towns should have the facilities within them to prosper themselves before we spend billions linking them together. If we had proper local government that could raise and spend cash locally on these facilities then it wouldn't be such an issue but as we have to wait for money from the national government then it's more and more difficult to get funding for large but local projects that aren't roads.
I wonder does anyone know of a concrete example of how linking Limerick and Galway with a motorway actually improved things?
So the M17/M18 benefits you personally because you aren't stuck behind tractors? I drive the N20 3/4x weekly an I am sick of tractors.. do I deserve an M20? The M17/M18 is so far east of Galway that it provides little benefit for traffic with Galway as a destination.. This is an inherent flaw in the design of the scheme.
The lack of investment in the city centres is not a reason for not building a national motorway network. Period.Middle Man wrote: »Well, we have the technology now to disperse a lot of the high tech and other high end jobs - there's no excuse IMO. Just get the broadband up to standard and cut the nonsense!
Be that as it may it hasn't resulted in large scale volumes of people working from home or dispersing to more regional centres.orangerhyme wrote: »right now it seems to be operating below capacity but will make sense more in the future I think when the motorway from Limerick to Cork is built.
At present though its good for Shannon-Foynes port which is our second busiest port and Shannon Airport is 3rd busiest airport.
I assume it has alleviated at least some of the congestion around Galway but Ive not seen any figures on this.
It's operating below capacity because it only serves traffic using the N17/N18 as a route avoiding Galway, volumes of traffic which don't warrant a motorway and never will. The M17/M18 don't serve Galway as the M6 interchange is far too far east.
Shannon-Foynes is "busy" due to heavy unloadings at Moneypoint power plant, Tarbet power plant, Aughinish Alumina manufacturing facility and Shannon fuel terminal. Not containers.
The M17/M18 was never going to do much for Galway, it's too far east. The lack of an N6 Ring Road intensifies this.what_traffic wrote: »Nope.
Claregalway mentioned on RTE Radio 1 "AA Roadwatch Free Ads" every morning. People aint using the Tuam to Gort Motorway.
Tuam bypass is the only essentially piece. Claregalway and Clarinbridge/Kilgolgan should have had used smaller scale bypasses on the old road network.
I agree with you.
The only stretch of the M17/M18 PPP that is net beneficial is the Tuam bypass.
A motorway tieing in near Oranmore would've been useful but would've required the CPO of lots of houses. No no from the council.hans aus dtschl wrote: »It's very convenient to argue that we
might not really need inter-urban motorways if you're based in a location that's fully connected.
Cork alone won't be the economic counterweight to Dublin in the next 100 years. It's too small. The only show in town is Galway-Limerick-Cork and even that's going to need a lot of work.
For people sitting north of Limerick thinking that delaying this project will improve your local economy: in the long term it will not.
For those sitting in Dublin thinking that this money would be better spent on local infrastructure: in the long term you either need the regions to become stronger, or resign yourself to subsidising the entire country and never complain again. This project has one of the best cost:benefit ratios of all infrastructure projects in the country.
Galway and Limerick combined have less population than Cork, but have an intercity motorway between them, a motorway each to Dublin and a motorway north to Tuam. Wonderful infrastructure projects. Where were all our motorway objectors when these were being built?
An excellent question. Objections to the M20 based on sprawl from people that never objected to the M17 are ridiculous.orangerhyme wrote: »He's written papers going back years on how much money we waste on motorways in the hope of stimulating growth, yet there's no evidence to back this up.
What good did it do Waterford or Mullingar or Portlaois?
He's not saying motorways are pointless, just that the money could be better spent elsewhere.
For example would the money in Cork be better spent on infrastructure in the docklands to attract Foreign Direct Investment. Modern offices, affordable housing, high speed broadband, an enterprise center for startups, research facility for UCC/CIT etc in the docklands would surely attract more investment and jobs than a motorway to Limerick.
It makes complete sense when you think about it.
Theres an airport and port already in Cork and if theres plenty of housing and jobs in Cork, why the big need for a motorway?
Similar investment could be made in Limerick too.
Its a fallacy that motorways stimulate growth.
There should be investment in the Cork Docklands ALONGSIDE the M20. Are we short of money now?orangerhyme wrote: »If a large multinational was thinking of setting up in Cork, how much would they care if there's a motorway to Limerick?
There are multinationals with offices in both cities that would expand further if there was a closer link. I have first hand experience of this.Pete_Cavan wrote: »Ah come on. Those towns, and numerous others around the country, would be in a near constant state of gridlock if they were not bypassed. You could argue whether motorway bypasses were needed but even if they were overspec'd, that is better in the long term. The motorways is one of the few things this country did right first time.
Exactly. Any type of traffic going from Dublin to Galway/Shannon/Limerick/Cork/Waterford has a free run now. We are only realising the net benefits of the schemes now.From what I hear on the ground, Shannon airport seems to be on the up as the M17/18 makes it easier for people in the region to choose it over Dublin Airport.
The HSE announced creating two trauma centres in the state, one in Cork and Dublin. While Galway will be designated a trauma unit. Not sure about the provision of Helicopters for air-lifts which is part of the plan but having a motorway network is also a necessity.
Shannon Airport may lose out as a result of the M20, especially if transatlantic services start at Cork (besides Norwegian). No reason not to build the M20 thoHow do we know that money is not there for that? Remember the M20 will cost about €850 million, out of the €115 Billion that is due to be spent. That is less than 0.8% of the capital budget. You would swear this is the only project on the list and the amount of negative press it has gotten is unreal
The Docklands development is already ere marked. Horgans Quay, Anderson Quay are being developed right now. The plan for the docklands is expected to be released in the next month or so. There are plans for over 20,000 units of housing along with offices, bridges, entertainment and transport expected to be provisioned. This is a ten year plan at least.
In other words, work on developing both Limerick and Cork core is already underway. We cannot wait 30 years and then develop the M20, it already sticks out like a sore thumb.
Cork and Limerick are unconnected, as you say the connection will be benefical to bothAugustusMinimus wrote: »It’s still amazes me. I didn’t hearing anything in the press or in here complaining about the M17/M18 being a waste of money.
Yet the M20 which will link the 2nd and 3rd biggest cities in the state is a bad idea? It boggles the mind.
Why is this scheme getting so much heat. What brings out this hatred of the scheme in people. Should Cork not get development cash? Talks of high speed rail is absolute pie in the sky stuff. All that would happen is the M20 getting cancelled and then the rail would never get built. And in the end, it wouldn’t solve any where near the problems that the M20 will solve.
Thank god both FG and FF want this motorway built.
I agree with this 100%. Cork has a massive roads backlog and this will represent a solid start on the backlogorangerhyme wrote: »Personally Im not opposed to it. Im from Kerry so it will mean Kerry will be just 30 minutes from the national motorway network which will be good for us.
But I agree with the economist in his points about how the money could be better spent elsewhere in the context of developing regional cities as a counter balance to Dublin.
He's an expert in this, been reseaching it for decades.
What part of Kerry? There is an M21 on the way too.
The lack of investment in city centres isn't a justification for not building the M20. The city centres need invesment too.Charles Babbage wrote: »He has an agenda, like many people here.
The M20 should not be an either/or with developments in Limerick or Cork, both are needed. In addition, there is a significant agribusess along thos route, with associated truck traffic and Mallow is a reasonable contender as a distibution hub for Munster.
Another valid point. Lots of Dairygold and Lidl HGV traffic amongst othersExperts can be wrong. Remember the same experts giving out about LUAS and that it would be a white elephant?
I remember the same experts giving out about motorways building from the likes of Limerick and Galway to Dublin, instead had utopian ideas about high speed rail.
This guy is on record as well about being wrong about things like the Slane by-pass.
As, I said he makes a good case but I feel he is arguing against a different question, about core city density. No one is saying that this road will solve that issue. This road does solve other problems though and he even agreed that in other ways, this road is entirely justified.
Economists are and always have been anti rail. Colm McCarthy for one has been anti rail but pro road. A road like the M20 with massive benefits doesn't deserve such objection.0 -
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orangerhyme wrote: »Part of me thinks Enda Kenny pushed for it to be extended to Tuam since its close to Mayo..
The M17/M18 Gort-Tuam scheme was in train long before Enda Kenny got near his throne.orangerhyme wrote: »Its a good point, but Cork airport now offers transatlantic flights and is 10 minutes outside the city.
Also it makes more economic sense for the government to incentivise flights from Cork to the States than building a one billion motorway to an airport an hour an a half away.
I think it will get built anyway, so it doesnt matter, and like I said, I think it will be good for Kerry so Im overall supportive.
I do think in Ireland we have a major fetish for roads and motorways and miss whats really important.
We have major housing crisis, mental health crisis, homeless crisis, etc but we have a motorway to Tuam...
Cork has a single transatlantic 737 service to Providence. That is useless for business travellers.Cork has a substantial amount of US companies (Pharma + IT), most business travelers use Cork airport to connect to the US via Heathrow, CDG, Schiphol. These hub airports provide the range of destinations and frequency which is required by MN's, which Shannon can't provide, even with the new motorway this won't change.
We need to invest in both motorway's as well as city infrastructure, an either or argument is ridiculous.
Agreed. With the A321LRs on the way Cork may become an alternative to Shannon for transatlantic services.orangerhyme wrote: »https://www.nratrafficdata.ie/c2/gmapbasic.asp?sgid=ZvyVmXU8jBt9PJE$c7UXt6
If you look at statistics in above map, a motorway to Midleton to far more important, also the south ring is close if not over capacity, a northern ring road would alleviate this a lot.
I would prioritise both those projects above a motorway to Limerick
The N25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton scheme should make the Capital Plan on Friday. The N25 Midleton-Youghal dual carriageway is suspended because the politicians in east Cork aren't interested in it.orangerhyme wrote: »This motorway will pass through about 5 different constituencies, that's why it will happen, wins votes and keeps people happy.
Its not because its good planning.
It's a national road scheme. Nothing to do with politics. The politicians in these constituencies bar a select few have had no interest in getting it done.orangerhyme wrote: »Data points between Clonakilty and Cork, average of 16/17: 9300 , 15000, 19500
Data points between Patrickwell and Cork,average of 16/17: 14000, 10000, 14000
Yep, Im telling porkies
I and others have realised that there is a need for an M71 to Inishannon and dual carriageway from there to beyond Bandon.
This should be in the works down the line.0 -
All good points, thanks for input.
Im from east Kerry so I think this will be beneficial to us. For example Munster Joinery in Ballydesmond is one of the biggest factories in Munster. They make windows, doors etc and deliver all over ireland. Being 30 minutes from the motorway would be hugely beneficial for them. They are a huge employer in a very rural area.
Likewise I notice a Lidl distribution center between Charleville and Mallow, Id imagine this motorway would attract other similar enterprises in this area which is commutable from Kerry also.
Kerry doesnt need a motorway but a bypass of Macroom and Adare would be very, very useful. I believe both are on the cards.
Hypothetically, if you had a choice between the M20 or a northern ring road which joined the south ring to the M8, which would you choose?0 -
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orangerhyme wrote: »All good points, thanks for input.
Im from east Kerry so I think this will be beneficial to us. For example Munster Joinery in Ballydesmond is one of the biggest factories in Munster. They make windows, doors etc and deliver all over ireland. Being 30 minutes from the motorway would be hugely beneficial for them. They are a huge employer in a very rural area.
Likewise I notice a Lidl distribution center between Charleville and Mallow, Id imagine this motorway would attract other similar enterprises in this area which is commutable from Kerry also.
Kerry doesnt need a motorway but a bypass of Macroom and Adare would be very, very useful. I believe both are on the cards.
Hypothetically, if you had a choice between the M20 or a northern ring road which joined the south ring to the M8, which would you choose?
I think that you and I don't live so far apart.
I often spend time stuck behind Munster Joinery traffic both on the N20 and the N72. They do employ 1,300 people which is hugely beneficial for the region.
The Lidl distribution centre in Ballyhea is also a large generator of HGV traffic on the N20 corridor.
The M21 Adare-Rathkeale is on the cards for inclusion in the Capital Plan and the N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney is to start in 2020. The next issue will be extending the N22 dual carriageway towards Ovens and the N21 dual carriageway west towards Abbeyfeale.
I would support the M20 but there shouldn't be a need for a choice or will there be a choice. Both the M20 and M40 North Ring have positive net benefits and both are required in the short term, let alone the medium term.0 -
I think that you and I don't live so far apart.
I often spend time stuck behind Munster Joinery traffic both on the N20 and the N72. They do employ 1,300 people which is hugely beneficial for the region.
The Lidl distribution centre in Ballyhea is also a large generator of HGV traffic on the N20 corridor.
The M21 Adare-Rathkeale is on the cards for inclusion in the Capital Plan and the N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney is to start in 2020. The next issue will be extending the N22 dual carriageway towards Ovens and the N21 dual carriageway west towards Abbeyfeale.
I would support the M20 but there shouldn't be a need for a choice or will there be a choice. Both the M20 and M40 North Ring have positive net benefits and both are required in the short term, let alone the medium term.
I dont live in that area anymore as I moved to the big smoke like everyone else but I can see how the M20 will benefit the East Kerry/Duhallow/North Cork region.
So in general Im supportive.
As regards the M20 versus North ring, you can only choose one, which one?
Id imagine the people of Galway, given the choice, would have chose a ring road instead of the M17/M18.
I can see its benefits in the medium to long term, but right now Galway needs a bypass and investment in public transport.0 -
Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,413 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 14107
orangerhyme wrote: »I dont live in that area anymore as I moved to the big smoke like everyone else but I can see how the M20 will benefit the East Kerry/Duhallow/North Cork region.
So in general Im supportive.
As regards the M20 versus North ring, you can only choose one, which one?
Id imagine the people of Galway, given the choice, would have chose a ring road instead of the M17/M18.
I can see its benefits in the medium to long term, but right now Galway needs a bypass and investment in public transport.
Of course, that depends on whether a junction is provided for the R515 east of Charleville. The old M20 plan had trucks etc going past the school in Charleville to join the M20 at an inconvenient location. There needs to be a junction near Charleville Golf Club but that will require some sprawl to be CPO'd
You may have moved but I haven't.. and an awful lot of others haven't.
I'd choose the M20. As I said before the North Ring also warrants building, it's not a case of either or.
Galway's Ring Road needs to be done correctly to realise its net benefits. The M17/M18 is performing exactly as it should. It offers little benefit for anyone going to Galway as opposed to north to Mayo or Sligo (or Limerick in the other direction).0 -
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Would a few bypasses of Buttervant, Charleville etc and a Dual Carriageway be enough for the N20 or does it definitely need a motorway?0
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