M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Leonard Hofstadter

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Water John wrote: »

One of the Boys of Kilmichael. Family is anyway, must check out the details.

That's a common name out there alright but I think he himself is from the city.

I thought so as well. Bishopstown was considered to be his political base until they redrew the Cork South Central constituency the last time and his brother is a Councillor in Turner's s Cross.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep to the M20 please.

Bazzer007

I wonder are there any meetings/consultations being organised to discuss the proposed route yet. A friend of mine mentioned he heard a few meetings are in the pipeline - one in Fermoy supposedly. An Taoiseach stated he would prefer to keep the original route, not sure if he meant the exact same plan proposed by the TII in 2008.

marno21

Bazzer007 wrote: »

I wonder are there any meetings/consultations being organised to discuss the proposed route yet. A friend of mine mentioned he heard a few meetings are in the pipeline - one in Fermoy supposedly. An Taoiseach stated he would prefer to keep the original route, not sure if he meant the exact same plan proposed by the TII in 2008.

The route will be in line with the existing N20. This has been confirmed by Leo Varadkar and more or less confirmed by TII.

The waste of time and money M8 routing that certain economists love has been quashed, yet again.

914

Just looking for the views of some cork/limerick people. Would you be in favour of the m20 upgrade or instade upgrade Micthlestown to Limerick and Cahir to Waterford.

By completing the above idea you would not have a motorway from

Cork - Limerick
Cork - Galway
Cork - Waterford
Cork - Rosslare (Europort)

Cork to Limerick via Mitchelstown is currently 11km longer than the m20 and 12 minutes slower.

My reasoning is for the same cost you now jave every city in Ireland connected by motorway while also connected every city to Rosslare Europort.


Cork to Waterford via n24 is currently 25km longer and 15 minutes slower.

Calina

M20. Your idea has been discussed at length and rejected as a replacement fir the M20.

AugustusMinimus

Isambard

914 wrote: »

Just looking for the views of some cork/limerick people. Would you be in favour of the m20 upgrade or instade upgrade Micthlestown to Limerick and Cahir to Waterford.

By completing the above idea you would not have a motorway from

Cork - Limerick
Cork - Galway
Cork - Waterford
Cork - Rosslare (Europort)

Cork to Limerick via Mitchelstown is currently 11km longer than the m20 and 12 minutes slower.

My reasoning is for the same cost you now jave every city in Ireland connected by motorway while also connected every city to Rosslare Europort.


Cork to Waterford via n24 is currently 25km longer and 15 minutes slower.

we've been there, it's not happening. M20 via Mallow is essential.

Sam Russell

Mod: This thread is about the N20 becoming the M20 - not about a route going through the Galtees. Posts off topic will be deleted. If you want to discuss Mitchelstown as a diversion, then open a new thread.

AugustusMinimus

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: This thread is about the N20 becoming the M20 - not about a route going through the Galtees. Posts off topic will be deleted. If you want to discuss Mitchelstown as a diversion, then open a new thread.

There’s a thread already set up to discuss alternative routes.

Limerick74

Some have been saying the Cork NRR (eastern section) has been included with the M20. If you read what was said in the NDP it is not that straight forward.

“The Cork North Ring Road is a complementary scheme to the M20 and consideration of the North Ring Road could best be assessed as part of an overall transport strategy for the metropolitan Cork area which would include the examination of public transport and demand management options.”

marno21

The NRR will be included, the cheaper M8-M20 section. The M20 without it would cause too many issues at Blackpool with no route to Ringaskiddy etc for trucks

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

The NRR will be included, the cheaper M8-M20 section. The M20 without it would cause too many issues at Blackpool with no route to Ringaskiddy etc for trucks

That’s your opinion rather than something written in policy document. Hope it does get built but lumping it together with the M20 will delay the M20 a few years more. They need to be advanced in parallel but not as one project.

Isambard

Limerick74 wrote: »

That’s your opinion rather than something written in policy document. Hope it does get built but lumping it together with the M20 will delay the M20 a few years more. They need to be advanced in parallel but not as one project.

Yes I agree, I can never understand how problems in Blackpool would arise with the road finishing at Blarney and carrying the existing traffic that passes through Blackpool now. Yes a partial NRR would be nice but it in't essential

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

Yes I agree, I can never understand how problems in Blackpool would arise with the road finishing at Blarney and carrying the existing traffic that passes through Blackpool now. Yes a partial NRR would be nice but it in't essential

Because the traffic will get there faster. Even with the NRR Blackpool will be a disaster. P&R badly needed on the northside.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Because the traffic will get there faster. Even with the NRR Blackpool will be a disaster. P&R badly needed on the northside.

that's what people always say, but it's a nonsense. All the traffic will get there quicker but there won't be any more of it. the ones that get there first will have cleared before the next tranche gets there, just as now,

marno21

This is simply untrue.

There are examples countrywide of motorways feeding directly into 50km/h zones with junctions. Adare, Galway, Dunkettle, the end of the M1 at Whitehall etc. The M20 will feed traffic directly into Blackpool where before the traffic was moving slower and in queues with less throughput.

If the NRR isn't built there will be severe congestion through Blackpool, may as well build it now

fonzy951

Isambard wrote: »

Yes I agree, I can never understand how problems in Blackpool would arise with the road finishing at Blarney and carrying the existing traffic that passes through Blackpool now. Yes a partial NRR would be nice but it in't essential

The NRR isn't essential, are you sure? Have you ever driven the existing NRR? The existing road is a boreen going through housing estates and community areas. Truth be told the new eastern section of the NRR is by far the most necessary and economically viable section of road between Limerick and Cork.

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

This is simply untrue.

There are examples countrywide of motorways feeding directly into 50km/h zones with junctions. Adare, Galway, Dunkettle, the end of the M1 at Whitehall etc. The M20 will feed traffic directly into Blackpool where before the traffic was moving slower and in queues with less throughput.

If the NRR isn't built there will be severe congestion through Blackpool, may as well build it now

but the road is doing just that now and there aren't that many problems. There will be no change in Blackpool from improving a road that ends 3 or 4 miles away in any case. How could there be?

fonzy951

Isambard wrote: »

but the road is doing just that now and there aren't that many problems. There will be no change in Blackpool from improving a road that ends 3 or 4 miles away in any case. How could there be?

It would take traffic away from the Commons road, Blackpool shopping centre area, right up to the existing NRR, this area of Blackpool is already very congested. The existing NRR clearly isn't fit for purpose to serve as a link between the M20 and Dunkettle. It's a critical piece of infrastructure which will be used to connect the M20 to the port, airport, M25 etc.

Limerick74

One could interpret the NDP wording that you can connect the M20 to M8 via the M40 with the western section of CNRR!

marno21

The M20 will require a connection to the motorway network/heavy volume road network in Cork e.g. the N22-N40-(N28)-N25 axis.

There are two options, a connection to the N40 at J1 or a connection to the M8 at J18. The connection to the M8 at J18 will come in cheaper so will be the preferred option.

It would be absolutely fantastic if TII could reactivate the Western section, define a route and preserve it, and then build it when funding comes along. It would greatly relieve the tunnel and Douglas flyover, both of which will become severe pressure points after the Dunkettle Interchange is upgraded.

orangerhyme

Isambard wrote: »

that's what people always say, but it's a nonsense. All the traffic will get there quicker but there won't be any more of it. the ones that get there first will have cleared before the next tranche gets there, just as now,

Read up on "induced demand" in traffic.
Traffic will increase on M20, that's guaranteed.
I'd argue that a NRR from the south ring to the M8 is more important than the M20

Water John

Cork City Council have acquired some land recently along the Carrigrohane straight. Not sure if this was some of the passage of the proposed NRR previously?

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

The M20 will require a connection to the motorway network/heavy volume road network in Cork e.g. the N22-N40-(N28)-N25 axis.

There are two options, a connection to the N40 at J1 or a connection to the M8 at J18. The connection to the M8 at J18 will come in cheaper so will be the preferred option.

It would be absolutely fantastic if TII could reactivate the Western section, define a route and preserve it, and then build it when funding comes along. It would greatly relieve the tunnel and Douglas flyover, both of which will become severe pressure points after the Dunkettle Interchange is upgraded.

The benefits of the western section could outweigh the higher costs and give a greater return than the eastern section.

Isambard

orangerhyme wrote: »

Read up on "induced demand" in traffic.
Traffic will increase on M20, that's guaranteed.
I'd argue that a NRR from the south ring to the M8 is more important than the M20

I disagree. The road would be using the existing road from Blarney to the City with the same traffic on it as now, how could there be an effect on Blackpool? Granted a NRR would improve the traffic situation in Blackpool, feel free to follow that line, but I fail to see how lack of it it could make it worse.

marno21

Limerick74 wrote: »

The benefits of the western section could outweigh the higher costs and give a greater return than the eastern section.

If that's how Ireland worked this debate wouldn't even be happening.

It'll likely be bundled together given that the NRR East is effectively an extension of the M20 to meet the TEN-T high volume road network.

orangerhyme

Isambard wrote: »

I disagree. The road would be using the existing road from Blarney to the City with the same traffic on it as now, how could there be an effect on Blackpool? Granted a NRR would improve the traffic situation in Blackpool, feel free to follow that line, but I fail to see how lack of it it could make it worse.

Bigger roads induce more traffic. There'll be more traffic driving through Blackpool going to City center and other areas such as little island, ringaskiddy etc. I dont think Blackpool can handle this.
Also we can assume significant sprawl and population increase in towns along the M20 such as Mallow, Charleville etc which will further increase traffic.
The NRR is essential

Reputable Rog

orangerhyme wrote: »

Read up on "induced demand" in traffic.
Traffic will increase on M20, that's guaranteed.
I'd argue that a NRR from the south ring to the M8 is more important than the M20

Here we go again.

AugustusMinimus

Isambard wrote: »

I disagree. The road would be using the existing road from Blarney to the City with the same traffic on it as now, how could there be an effect on Blackpool? Granted a NRR would improve the traffic situation in Blackpool, feel free to follow that line, but I fail to see how lack of it it could make it worse.

More traffic is a certainty with people favouring the M20 over local roads.

The other issue is that the traffic will arrive faster and be more concentrated. However, road networks generally don’t handle high levels of traffic well.

The same traffic over 2 hours will not cause as much chaos as over 1 hour. This could also cause traffic in other parts of the city with junctions not performing efficiently with much higher levels of concentrated traffic.