M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Reputable Rog

Proper sequencing of lights in the Blackpool, particularly at N20-Watercourse Road and N20-Pophams Road would made a small but noticeable difference to the Blackpool congestion.
No right turn outbound to Assumption Road would also help.

orangerhyme

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Here we go again.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/voxpro-in-jobs-pledge-after-150m-takeover-457188.html

"He had also warned, however, about uneven regional economic growth, citing shortages of housing in Cork which could hamper the city’s recovery.

He said the rental crisis in Cork, which has seen prices in the city spike in recent years, was preventing Voxpro from holding on to some of the best “young, mobile, and multilingual workforce”."

Here we go again alright

AugustusMinimus

Water John wrote: »

Cork City Council have acquired some land recently along the Carrigrohane straight. Not sure if this was some of the passage of the proposed NRR previously?

The NRR West would begin at J1 N40 and run on the current road between the SRR and the Poulsvone Roundabout. Both of the intermediate roundabouts would require flyovers. J1 would also need significant upgrading.

A significant viaduct would also be built as part of the scheme.

marno21

orangerhyme wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/business/voxpro-in-jobs-pledge-after-150m-takeover-457188.html

"He had also warned, however, about uneven regional economic growth, citing shortages of housing in Cork which could hamper the city’s recovery.

He said the rental crisis in Cork, which has seen prices in the city spike in recent years, was preventing Voxpro from holding on to some of the best “young, mobile, and multilingual workforce”."

Here we go again alright

Docklands development, amongst others are being done to alleviate the city centre housing crisis. A lot of this will be done before the M20, and much of it will be funded by the private sector.

A non issue in an M20 debate if I'm being honest.

orangerhyme

marno21 wrote: »

Docklands development, amongst others are being done to alleviate the city centre housing crisis. A lot of this will be done before the M20, and much of it will be funded by the private sector.

A non issue in an M20 debate if I'm being honest.

There was a big pull out supplement in the Cork Examiner in 2006 about the docklands development, yet nothing happened.
Granted the recession was the biggest impact yet the Dublin docklands sdz was developed and has now being filled up with FDI.
Why wasn't Cork docklands sdz developed and now attracting FDI?
Lack of resources such as money, time, planners, political will

David Tucker

The first contract on the new road, issued by Limerick council had a submission date of 26-Jan-2018 & had a max value of Euro 8M-
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=123123&HL=0&PS=1&PP=transactions.asp
Limerick City and County Council and Cork County Council in partnership with Transport Infrastructure Ireland propose to commence the planning and design of the N/M20 Cork to Limerick Road Improvement Scheme. The scheme will provide a high quality road connecting Cork and Limerick.
It will be interesting to see how long before this is awarded.

marno21

David Tucker wrote: »

The first contract on the new road, issued by Limerick council had a submission date of 26-Jan-2018 & had a max value of Euro 8M-
https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=123123&HL=0&PS=1&PP=transactions.asp
Limerick City and County Council and Cork County Council in partnership with Transport Infrastructure Ireland propose to commence the planning and design of the N/M20 Cork to Limerick Road Improvement Scheme. The scheme will provide a high quality road connecting Cork and Limerick.
It will be interesting to see how long before this is awarded.

Unfortunately, that's only a Market Consultation for Tender Consultancy Services, the actual tender for Consultancy Services hasn't been issued yet, only a PIN.

The pace at which this scheme is moving is starting to become annoying. The early planning work finished up at the end of 2017 and a tender to get this through Phases 2-4 (route selection, design, planning/EIS/MO) hasn't even been issued yet let alone awarded. At this rate we'll be lucky to start design/planning by late Q3 2018.

Aontachtoir

According to Cork's Evening Echo, TII has requested Limerick Council take the lead in designing the M20, including the Cork portion. TII believes that Limerick Council's road division is better resourced for this task. Cork County Council will be asked to sign off on Limerick Council designing the County Cork segment of motorway under Section 85 of the Local Government Act, 2001. Can't see any major issue with this as long as the need for the North Ring Road to be delivered with the M20 is recognised (although potentially this could be spun off, with Cork County Council responsible for delivering the M40).

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Limerick-to-lead-M20-motorway-design-project-6e949769-7948-4269-94d3-5bc52f3e7eec-ds

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

According to Cork's Evening Echo, TII has requested Limerick Council take the lead in designing the M20, including the Cork portion. TII believes that Limerick Council's road division is better resourced for this task. Cork County Council will be asked to sign off on Limerick Council designing the County Cork segment of motorway under Section 85 of the Local Government Act, 2001. Can't see any major issue with this as long as the need for the North Ring Road to be delivered with the M20 is recognised (although potentially this could be spun off, with Cork County Council responsible for delivering the M40).

http://www.eveningecho.ie/corknews/Limerick-to-lead-M20-motorway-design-project-6e949769-7948-4269-94d3-5bc52f3e7eec-ds

Thanks for posting this I saw it in the Echo earlier but forgot to post it.

There is literally nothing new in this article, it's simply a reporting of the TII allocations for the year, published in January

marno21

On a separate note, it's about time things started moving on this. Nothing has happened since Limerick council posted a PIN for tender for the design of the scheme in November.

We had a big revealing of Metrolink last week but this needs to be driven on as well.

blindsider

Absolutely! I thought the same when I heard the Metro announcement.

Here's hoping...!

David Tucker

I emailed the Limerick project engineer, email address on Limerick council website, his reply "[font=Calibri, sans-serif]We are still in the process of procuring Engineering Consultants for the project which will take a number of months. Therefore it may be some time (6-12 months) before any public consultation / update is available for the project. Unfortunately these major infrastructure projects take a number of years to complete the planning and design process.[/font]
[font=Calibri, sans-serif] [/font]

sonnyblack

Again I ask the question. How can it take so long to get a project back in for planning when the previous scheme was already submitted and withdrawn. What has changed in the meantime? Why can't the previous application be dusted down and re-submitted? You don't need traffic surveys. It's going to be motorway standard. It sounds like a complete waste of time and money and will delay progress to construction. Please can someone explain it to me?

marno21

The lengthy delays with projects at the minute are for two reasons:

1. During the barren years of approx 2009-now, both TII and the local authority National Road Design Offices had a significantly reduced workload, with the number of projects in planning going from around 100 to around 15. As a result, some engineers in these offices were redeployed elsewhere as there was nothing happening with national roads. As a result the offices are under pressure (in relation to the M20, the entire project has been given to Limerick as they have more resources)

2. As is always the case... funding. Phases 2-4 of this (route selection, planning, design, EIS) will cost €12-15m in total. For the last M20 project, this was fully funded and was done in 18 months by Cork/Limerick council JV. This year €1.2m has been allocated for the project. They can only go so fast when the money is being dripfed.

It's incredibly disheartening watching projects go by this slow. The M21 scheme also in Limerick is an example of this. Completely starved of resources and the results are there

blindsider

sonnyblack wrote: »

Again I ask the question. How can it take so long to get a project back in for planning when the previous scheme was already submitted and withdrawn. What has changed in the meantime? Why can't the previous application be dusted down and re-submitted? You don't need traffic surveys. It's going to be motorway standard. It sounds like a complete waste of time and money and will delay progress to construction. Please can someone explain it to me?

Completely reasonable question.

What has changed? One suspects that very little has actually changed.

Surely the old plan could be updated to reflect the current situation?

Marno21 - is the €1.2m for 2018 confirmed? Surely, they could allocate more than that.......

marno21

blindsider wrote: »

Completely reasonable question.

What has changed? One suspects that very little has actually changed.

Surely the old plan could be updated to reflect the current situation?

Marno21 - is the €1.2m for 2018 confirmed? Surely, they could allocate more than that.......

Sorry, it's €1.5m. Limerick Council were allocated €2,575,000 for major projects in 2018.

€1.5m for Cork-Limerick
€1m for M21 Foynes-Rathkeale-Adare
€25k each for Abbeyfeale & Newcastlewest pisstake bypasses relief roads
€25k for N24 Limerick Junction-Cahir

Bazzer007

Another crash on this lethal stretch of road near Waterloo.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tourist-suffers-serious-injuries-in-headon-collision-at-notorious-road-junction-36834529.html

marno21

Bazzer007 wrote: »

Another crash on this lethal stretch of road near Waterloo.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/tourist-suffers-serious-injuries-in-headon-collision-at-notorious-road-junction-36834529.html

Is there an issue with Google Maps or similar diverting southbound traffic to Blarney via the Waterloo turnoff?

It'd be handier if right turns were banned there and traffic forced to use the Blarney grade seperated junction. Immediate safety benefit.

JamesBond2010

marno21 wrote: »

Is there an issue with Google Maps or similar diverting southbound traffic to Blarney via the Waterloo turnoff?

It'd be handier if right turns were banned there and traffic forced to use the Blarney grade seperated junction. Immediate safety benefit.

it was another yank so it was probably the sat nav or @ the wrong side of the road.

Isambard

marno21 wrote: »

Is there an issue with Google Maps or similar diverting southbound traffic to Blarney via the Waterloo turnoff?

It'd be handier if right turns were banned there and traffic forced to use the Blarney grade seperated junction. Immediate safety benefit.

could be but I thought the problem was people pulling out of the junction on to the N20, possibly looking left and seeing an empty lane on the near side of the road and pulling out, I've had people do it to me. I think the junction being on a slight bend has a bearing. (not commenting on today's accident as I know no facts)

Kevwoody

Would it be an option to close the junction and force traffic to use the grade seperated junction at Blarney?
From what i remember, theres only a few houses when you turn off the N20, then a T junction with the old Mallow road.

AugustusMinimus

Travelling southwards, it probably is faster getting into Blarney than using the Grade separated junction.

Changing the junction to left in left out only.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Travelling southwards, it probably is faster getting into Blarney than using the Grade separated junction.

Changing the junction to left in left out only.

Yep, banning right turns there would be a good start.

Given the amount of incidents at this junction the time savings by a small amount of people rat running aren't as much of a concern as the safety along that road.

Of course, it may be time to start examining the junctions along the route for safety purposes on a wider basis. The N28 between Carrs Hill and Shannonpark has no right turns and it's a lower speed road. (both in terms of the speed limit and the general inability to speed along the route).

The N20 along this stretch is ridiculously dangerous between speeding and turning conflicts.

AugustusMinimus

marno21 wrote: »

Yep, banning right turns there would be a good start.

Given the amount of incidents at this junction the time savings by a small amount of people rat running aren't as much of a concern as the safety along that road.

Of course, it may be time to start examining the junctions along the route for safety purposes on a wider basis. The N28 between Carrs Hill and Shannonpark has no right turns and it's a lower speed road. (both in terms of the speed limit and the general inability to speed along the route).

The N20 along this stretch is ridiculously dangerous between speeding and turning conflicts.

N28 has no right turns for 2 reasons. No space for right turn filter lanes and of course, the traffic is just catastrophic. Is the N28 the most heavily trafficked single lane national route?

Reputable Rog

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

N28 has no right turns for 2 reasons. No space for right turn filter lanes and of course, the traffic is just catastrophic. Is the N28 the most heavily trafficked single lane national route?

It's possible.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

N28 has no right turns for 2 reasons. No space for right turn filter lanes and of course, the traffic is just catastrophic. Is the N28 the most heavily trafficked single lane national route?

Yes, certainly the busiest one outside an urban area with a 80km/h (ex. 100 of course) limit (some single lane roads run through cities such as the N8/N22/N20/N27 in Cork).

The N71 near the Bandon Road Roundabout would run it close, and plenty of roads a few thousand short (N22 at Ovens, N24 at Limerick etc)

Chris_5339762

Possibly, but I'd vouch that some near Dublin are worse. The N2 (before the M2 section inbound) is the first one that comes to mind.

Limerick74

Prequalification for Technical Consultancy Services advertised on etenders by Limerick City & County Council

marno21

Been looking at etenders all day and a juicy tender only appears at 10pm :pac:

On a more serious note, a prequal for a tender for engineering consultancy services. How long is this going to be dragged out? The way we're going we'll be lucky if this moves into initial design in 2019 when all the money is burnt on paperwork and bureaucracy.

This is the third tender relating to technical consultancy services and it's not even been fully tendered yet (5 months have passed since initial tender).

Link to tender: https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=125724

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

Been looking at etenders all day and a juicy tender only appears at 10pm :pac:

On a more serious note, a prequal for a tender for engineering consultancy services. How long is this going to be dragged out? The way we're going we'll be lucky if this moves into initial design in 2019 when all the money is burnt on paperwork and bureaucracy.

This is the third tender relating to technical consultancy services and it's not even been fully tendered yet (5 months have passed since initial tender).

Link to tender: https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase.asp?PID=125724

The previous two notices were for a PIN notice and the Market Consultation so this is the important one. A prequalification process is the normal process for major tenders.