M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Leonard Hofstadter

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

I've a few trips from Cork City to Clare and Galway coming from next week, and I'm dreading the section from Blarney to Patrickswell.

Why not go via the M8 and Mitchelstown? It's longer but it's often faster.

Reputable Rog

captainspeed wrote: »

Why not go via the M8 and Mitchelstown? It's longer but it's often faster.

Maybe he lives in Blarney.

grogi

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Maybe he lives in Blarney.

from Cork City to Clare and Galway

I don't think Blarney is part of Cork City, even after the City boundary extension...

Reputable Rog

grogi wrote: »

I don't think Blarney is part of Cork City, even after the City boundary extension...

You think wrong, it will be part of the new city area.

zetalambda

JCX BXC wrote: »

The worst part about this is you're not even being sarcastic. You genuinely believe in what you say!

And that's not all. Once the M20 is built, Shannon airport will just become the international terminal of Cork airport. We might even have to rename it Cork North West Airport.

cjpm

zetalambda wrote: »

And that's not all. Once the M20 is built, Shannon airport will just become the international terminal of Cork airport. We might even have to rename it Cork North West Airport.

Yep. And that's not all.... any tourists flying into "Cork" with Ryanair will be landing in Shannon!!

Shn99

The person is clearly a troll (same in other threads), wouldn't rise to the bait.

marno21

Lads, can we talk about the M20 please rather than a Shannon vs Cork debate. It's not the forum for it.

JamesBond2010

marno21 wrote: »

Lads, can we talk about the M20 please rather than a Shannon vs Cork debate. It's not the forum for it.

not this ****e again is that fellow back again

spacetweek

Back on track please!!!

- Mod

Missyelliot2

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

What is the date for that fair in Buttevant in early July?
Road users should be warned, so they could use the Hospital route....it's laughable, if it wasn't so dangerous.....

Anyone travelling through Buttevant later today (Wednesday) - just to warn you, stalls were open for business from 1pm on Monday! It has to the slowest stretch of road in the entire road network. There is resurfacing being carried out near Cork , so allow for 15 mins extra.(at least)
I drove from Gort to Cork today ..... cruised to Croom. Dear Lord people of Cork- ye are very patient!

It's such a dangerous stretch-

marno21

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Anyone travelling through Buttevant later today (Wednesday) - just to warn you, stalls were open for business from 1pm on Monday! It has to the slowest stretch of road in the entire road network. There is resurfacing being carried out near Cork , so allow for 15 mins extra.(at least)
I drove from Gort to Cork today ..... cruised to Croom. Dear Lord people of Cork- ye are very patient!

It's such a dangerous stretch-

Since last September, and especially now, it really shows how much of a lump of horse**** this road is now. I drove from Knock Airport to Cork lately and from Knock to Patrickswell is an absolute joy to drive bar a few km around Milltown. Then you slap bang into a cattle track from Patrickswell to Mallow, where it widens out but becomes twice as busy.

Cork roads are such a tease. Leave Cork on the N20, N22, N25 or N71 and you get to drive on 5/6km of dual carraigeway before the road quickly descends into an absolute ****show.

Missyelliot2

marno21 wrote: »

Since last September, and especially now, it really shows how much of a lump of horse**** this road is now. I drove from Knock Airport to Cork lately and from Knock to Patrickswell is an absolute joy to drive bar a few km around Milltown. Then you slap bang into a cattle track from Patrickswell to Mallow, where it widens out but becomes twice as busy.

Cork roads are such a tease. Leave Cork on the N20, N22, N25 or N71 and you get to drive on 5/6km of dual carraigeway before the road quickly descends into an absolute ****show.

Completely agree.... it's beyond a joke! I no longer live in Cork.. but to hear the Mayors of Cork County and City requesting a 'stimulus package' for Cork beggars belief! How can they request that - when people can't get a motorway between Cork and Limerick- People are still driving through Charleville and Buttevant- Why?
I am amazed though, that this road is tolerated....... Is there any political will to improve this road? Does anyone at all care about how c*** it is?

marno21

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Completely agree.... it's beyond a joke! I no longer live in Cork.. but to hear the Mayors of Cork County and City requesting a 'stimulus package' for Cork beggars belief! How can they request that - when people can't get a motorway between Cork and Limerick- People are still driving through Charleville and Buttevant- Why?
I am amazed though, that this road is tolerated....... Is there any political will to improve this road? Does anyone at all care about how c*** it is?

I agree with them. By my reckoning we have a road needs list like this:

N8/N25/N40 Dunkettle Interchange €100m
M20 Cork-Limerick €850m
N22 Macroom-Ballyvourney €180m
M22 Macroom-Ovens €220m
M25 Carrigtwohill-Midleton-Youghal €260m
M28 Cork-Ringaskiddy €170m
M40 North Ring East €150m
M40 North Ring West €300m
M71 Cork-Bandon €550m
N71 Bandon-Clonakilty €150m

Some of those are estimates as viaducts and tunnels are required. That's €2.93bn. The NDP provides for €1.51bn of that upto 2027 (assuming Carrigtwohill-Midleton is prioritised after appraisal). IMO the remaining projects above should at least be funded for planning in the NDP, given the level of investment in Connacht and Ulster in the NDP and the comparable population.

Political will from some politicians. Kieran O'Donnell in Limerick has raised the issue very frequently. Sean Sherlock has been behind it after he suddenly discovered it when he was removed from Government in 2016. Michael Moynihan in Cork North West has also raised it, the other two in Cork NW are more Macroom focused so focusing on the bypass. Special mention to Patrick O'Donovan, Junior Minister in both Finance and Transport Departments who has completely ignore the issue and similar issues within his constituencies on the equivilant N21 and N24 corridors.

Aontachtoir

Missyelliot2 wrote: »

Is there any political will to improve this road? Does anyone at all care about how c*** it is?

The M20 has repeatedly been highlighted as an absolute priority by the business communities and Chambers of both cities, and almost unanimously supported by politicians from across the entire spectrum, ranging from councillors to the Tánaiste and Taoiseach. It is the only major road project that I am aware of which has recently gone from completely shelved to completely activated with a commitment for full funding all the way to the completion of construction.

So, to answer your question, there is massive political will to improve the road, and more money has been promised to complete the construction of the M20 than has been promised to any other road project currently active or planned in Ireland. I think the road between Mallow and Patrickswell is awful too and avoid it whenever I can. That said, it's important to give credit when credit is due, and I think there's plenty of credit due to the people who took the M20 back off the shelf as the economy recovered and promised to fund it all the way through construction.

Mc Love

marno21 wrote: »

Special mention to Patrick O'Donovan, Junior Minister in both Finance and Transport Departments who has completely ignore the issue and similar issues within his constituencies on the equivilant N21 and N24 corridors.

He'll be the one out saying he played a part in the M20 once its complete.

Brendan Griffin have to say is very good in terms of road projects in Kerry.

AugustusMinimus

Aontachtoir wrote: »

The M20 has repeatedly been highlighted as an absolute priority by the business communities and Chambers of both cities, and almost unanimously supported by politicians from across the entire spectrum, ranging from councillors to the Tánaiste and Taoiseach. It is the only major road project that I am aware of which has recently gone from completely shelved to completely activated with a commitment for full funding all the way to the completion of construction.

So, to answer your question, there is massive political will to improve the road, and more money has been promised to complete the construction of the M20 than has been promised to any other road project currently active or planned in Ireland. I think the road between Mallow and Patrickswell is awful too and avoid it whenever I can. That said, it's important to give credit when credit is due, and I think there's plenty of credit due to the people who took the M20 back off the shelf as the economy recovered and promised to fund it all the way through construction.

I think completely the opposite. It’s obvious as daylight there was no will to have this road built. Both politicians at local and national level were useless on

Missyelliot2

AugustusMinimus wrote:

I think completely the opposite. It’s obvious as daylight there was no will to have this road built. Both politicians at local and national level were useless on

Have to agree with you wholeheartedly AugustusMinimus - that road should have been completed years ago.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I think completely the opposite. It’s obvious as daylight there was no will to have this road built. Both politicians at local and national level were useless on

As I've always said with this project (and others), every project comes in two halves, the planning & design stage, which is cheap but lengthy and the CPO & construction stage, which is expensive and lengthy.

If you have no money for big capital projects, you can at least spend money on getting projects to the planning stage. The M20 now needs to go through 3-4 years of planning which will cost €12-15m. This could easily have been started in 2015 and would be going into ABP now = M20 start in 2021. Instead we have a delayed planning job and M20 possibly starting in 2023/4.

You are entirely correct, there was no political will to get the above done. We are now left in a situation where we have the money to build it but we don't even have a ****ing route selected.

During 2011-2016, Simon Coveney (Cork South Central), Michael Noonan (Limerick City) held Cabinet positions and Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City), Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central), Sean Sherlock (Cork East) and Dara Murphy (Cork North Central) held junior ministries.

Meanwhile, the Listowel bypass got through planning with Jimmy Deenihan exclusively pushing it and he still lost his seat. Michael Ring + Enda Kenny happily pursued THREE N5 schemes, Michael Creed kept the Macroom bypass alive.

Aontachtoir

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

I think completely the opposite.  It’s obvious as daylight there was no will to have this road built.  Both politicians at local and national level were useless.

Contrary to popular belief on this forum, billion-euro infrastructure projects cannot be simply wished into existence if politicians just "believe" hard enough. The money has to come from somewhere. Similarly, spending millions of euro on planning etc seems like a waste of time if you cannot guarantee that the project will move on promptly. We've already spent millions of euro on planning for the M20, which was shot down by ABP. Now, because we couldn't advance the project during the years of deep recession, we have to start from scratch, with all the original labour, time, and financial investments lost.

As a reminder, the M20 was cancelled not because politicians suddenly lost the will to build it (which I guess they must have had a few years before when the planning process was first begun) but rather because there was no way that a country which had just suffered a shocking economic collapse and which was dependent on foreign money to keep the lights on day-to-day could afford to build it. Where would you have asked the IMF for permission to cut a billion euro and spend it on the motorway? Schools? The health service? Pensions?

marno21

Aontachtoir wrote: »

Contrary to popular belief on this forum, billion-euro infrastructure projects cannot be simply wished into existence if politicians just believe hard enough. That billion euro has to come from somewhere. Similarly, spending millions of euro on planning etc seems like a waste of time if you cannot guarantee that the project will move on promptly. We've already spent millions of euro on planning for the M20, which was shot down by ABP. Now, because we couldn't advance the project during the years of economic collapse, we have to start from sceatch.

As a reminder, the20 was cancelled not because politicians suddenly lost the will to build it (which I guess they had a few years before when the planning process was first begun) but rather because there was no way that a country which had just suffered a shocking economic collapse and which was dependent on foreign money to keep the lights on day-to-day could afford to build it. Where would you have asked the IMF for permission to cut a billion euro and spend it on the motorway? Schools? The health service? Pensions?

Read my last post again. Plenty of pet projects were advanced while the M20 was not.

It would also be nice for a Government to show leadership for once and put money into Capital budgets instead of throwing fivers at people in budgets. This doesn't apply just to roads but water infrastructure etc. Thankfully only since the last change of leader we now have a Taoiseach who actually speaks of capital investment without sounding like it's some sort of disease and positively talks about how much it is needed.

marno21

Lets also not forget the lobbying by the poor people of Galway that got their projects accelerated along the pipeline, with the M17/M18 now built and the N6 Galway bypass only not built because of a crusade by environmental fruitcakes

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/lobbying-pays-off-in-galway-roads-coup-26269526.html

Of course, N6 Galway bypass Part II is now about to go to ABP while M20 has no route corridor selected.

AugustusMinimus

What was it that Enda said about the M20 when in Cork?

To paraphrase “Ye got ye’re road to Dublin. Be happy with that”.

marno21

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

What was it that Enda said about the M20 when in Cork?

To paraphrase “Ye got ye’re road to Dublin. Be happy with that”.

Taoiseach Enda Kenny was visibly annoyed when pressed by this reporter on the matter in February.

“Cork got its motorway to Dublin. It’s amazing how the expectations grow just as the economy starts to improve,” he said.

Shn99

marno21 wrote: »

Taoiseach Enda Kenny was visibly annoyed when pressed by this reporter on the matter in February.

“Cork got its motorway to Dublin. It’s amazing how the expectations grow just as the economy starts to improve,” he said.

Farcial comment from someone whos probably never had to use the N20

marno21

Shn99 wrote: »

Farcial comment from someone whos probably never had to use the N20

That type of attitude from him and his party lost him 3 seats in that election in Cork. No surprise and totally deserved.

Of course, no problem with Castlebar getting its new road to Dublin, along with a new road to Limerick and a new road to Westport.

Isambard

lets see him say the same to a grieving relative the next time someone dies at Ballybeg. The M8 is of no use at all to the bulk of Co Cork. SOme of us would benefit a lot from the M20 but even then there would be a lot of Cork a days drive almost from the nearest motorway

Limerick91

Today is the day when people of a certain minority culture get to close down the N20 due to the fair in Buttevant.

Imagine the same scenario in England, closing the road between Birmingham and Manchester

It makes my blood boil every year

D Trent

Limerick91 wrote: »

Today is the day when people of a certain minority culture get to close down the N20 due to the fair in Buttevant.

Imagine the same scenario in England, closing the road between Birmingham and Manchester

It makes my blood boil every year

Stop that.
These people bring a great amount to the economy.

Mc Love

D Trent wrote: »

Stop that.
These people bring a great amount to the economy.

Take it to an open field - but this could really derail this thread so will leave it at that