M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

wingfo

Good news 'subject to funding' sounds iffy thou.

Amtmann

malcox wrote: »

Blarney to bweeng to mallow is only 1k longer than using the main road at the moment. It runs almost parallel to the west of the n20.

Hmm. The R619. I suppose it could do the trick, but it's a pretty crappy road as an alternative route I'd say, no?

-Corkie-

Furet wrote: »

Hmm. The R619. I suppose it could do the trick, but it's a pretty crappy road as an alternative route I'd say, no?

It isnt bad at all. I often took slow moving vehicles from mallow to cork and would alwys use this route. When get on the 2+1 bit the bad pilots cant pass when you get on the 1 bit no matter how far you keep in, so this road always proves easier. Their is still good overtaking places on it.

Tech3

wingfo wrote: »

Good news 'subject to funding' sounds iffy thou.

I would describe it as very "iffy" but hey at least there is a growing amount of media attention into getting this motorway going to construction. It's a pity it wasnt like this a few months ago before the PPP priority list was reshuffled throwing the M20 well down the pecking order even behind some M11 schemes.

This has resulted in the construction date being put back a few years best case scenario would be a start in late 2015. I still reckon it will be built but your going to be waiting a decade before you roll down the M20 :cool: When the PPP's are done no more motorway builds are required in this country ever except a few widening schemes of the M1 and M7 motorways.

Tech3

Furet wrote: »

Hmm. The R619. I suppose it could do the trick, but it's a pretty crappy road as an alternative route I'd say, no?

Very poor alternative and it's looks a lot longer than the current N20.

Irish and Proud

tech2 wrote: »

...When the PPP's are done no more motorway builds are required in this country ever except a few widening schemes of the M1 and M7 motorways.

...wouldn't agree - parts of the N4 were very heavy in the 1990's (let alone now), particularly to Longford. I'm aware that a type 2 DC is proposed there, but I do think a motorway would be the best thing to do from Mullingar to Longford. Also, the Dublin Outer Orbital may be required, as well as an upgrade of the N11 from Bray to south of Newtownmountkennedy - then there is the N25 Cork to Waterford for future consideration. Now, I'm looking at 2020 and beyond regarding the N11 and N25.

Also, I don't think the Naas DC is futureproof - was on it recently and the traffic there was very heavy at a time when almost every other road was relatively quiet - even the M50 Western Parkway. I would like to see the Naas Road as D4M with parallel service roads (alternative route) - BTW, I was also looking at ways of seperating out LUAS P+R and Naas Road traffic at the Red Cow - one solution involves a third level connector for M50 South to N7 South traffic, while the existing connector would serve the LUAS P+R etc. I was looking at the Palmerstown Interchange with a view to seperating out N4 West and Liffey Valley SC traffic.

I know I'm thinking Spain (another EU country after all) - but I do think Ireland is up to having very complex roads - I don't think we need to look over to Britain anymore - they are no longer at the races as far as I'm concerned - we need to think more like the road engineers in Spain - saw the map of Madrid and all I can say is WOW!!! By comparison, Dublin is getting there, but is not quite there yet. We need a very complex motorway around Dublin, while the LUAS must become widespread across the city with the interconnector plus two new bus stations in place.

Won't say any more as I'm going off topic...

Regards!

Sponge Bob

tech2 wrote: »

I would describe it as very "iffy" but hey at least there is a growing amount of media attention into getting this motorway going to construction. It's a pity it wasnt like this a few months ago before the PPP priority list was reshuffled throwing the M20 well down the pecking order even behind some M11 schemes.

That does not matter , even assuming there were money for this scheme in 2012 or 2013 ....a very dangerous assumption...... An Bord P can scratch their holes for up to 2 years after a hearing like they did with the N15 Ballybofey Bypass, the M6 Galway Bypass and just now the N26. And then as they showed they can refuse and kick the whole thing back by 3 or 4 years to the beginning of the EIS process.

The N26 was proposed as a D2+2

http://www.midwestradio.ie/MWR/index.php?mact=News,cntnt01,print,0&cntnt01articleid=6237&cntnt01showtemplate=false&cntnt01returnid=52

AN BORD PLEANALA HAS REFUSED PERMISSION FOR THE SECOND PHASE OF THE N26 ROAD FROM BALLINA TO BOHOLA.
IT HAS TAKEN THE BORD MORE THAN TWO YEARS TO ARRIVE AT THE DECISION TO REFUSE THE CPO ON THE ROAD CONSTRUCTION AND HAS CAUSED CONSTERNATION IN BALLINA AS THE NEW ROAD HAS BEEN PROPOSED FOR THE AREA FOR ALMOST 40 YEARS.
THE APPLICATION WAS REJECTED ON ENVIRONMENTAL GROUNDS AND ON THE NEED FOR THE ROAD STRUCTURE PROPOSED.

Decision available here sometime

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0003.htm

Like I say, only diggers a digging mean anything in Ireland.

Chris_5339762

Why the hell would the N26 need to be 2+2? It wouldnt be built to that standard in any sane country. They need to stop the 2+2 splurge everywhere, it seems as if every single S2 scheme is being pushed as 2+2 and thats plainly ridiculous.

The M20 will the last major motorway scheme to do (apart from some gap filling and widenings), 2+2 in a few places else but S2 for every other scheme almost.

Chris_5339762

By the way does anyone think the MSA is way too close to Cork?? Surely the original plans, to have it at Charleville, were way better?

You're not going to use it coming from Cork (its too close) and not if you're coming from Limerick (sure we're almost to Cork).

Chris_5339762

Triple post but what the hell Theres so much information in those documents.

Seems like only one bridge on the Croom bypass will have to be knocked. The one by the current junction will be wide enough, but I havent found yet if it'll need narrow shoulders.

BluntGuy

Good stuff here. Hafta say, the M20 is probably one of the more intriguing motorway schemes in recent years, given its mix of offline and online upgrades, the parallel roads, the service area, the tie-ins at either end etc. Currently going through the documents, finding the most interesting parts.

Currently looking at the N72 link road.

This seems to be a very high-grade link. Though I can't help but feel it's a little bit long-winded. It should probably come in closer to the town.



I'm not a big fan of the N72/N73/M20 connection shown here:



Looks a bit messy, a lot of roundabouts.

The profile is D2AP, 2x3.5 m running lanes and 1.5 m hard strips - 2+2 in other words.

It's the third diagram here:

http://www.corkrdo.ie/files/M20%20CPO%20data/Volume%203a%20-%20Figures%20-%20Book%201/Figure%204.401%20-%204.402.dwf

I hope to God they use a steel barrier, that wire one is just... horrible.

Also, notice this typo at the bottom?

Chris_5339762

I think the N72 link is good where it is. Since Buttevant hasnt got a junction its now not too far to drive back to the link road.

Reenascreena

http://corkpolitics.ie/wp/?p=4428

Mc Love

Not sure if the right place but part of the M20 is closed after 6 accidents this morning due to black ice

Chris_5339762

Reenascreena wrote: »

http://corkpolitics.ie/wp/?p=4428

This needs quoting more

Cork – Limerick motorway is not built yet

Tags: Bernartd Allen, Cork, Ireland, Limerick, M20, Motorway, politics
Bernard Allen

FINE Gael TD for Cork North Central, Bernard Allen has warned that the proposed Cork to Limerick motorway is still nowhere near construction despite the efforts of Fianna Fáil to give the impression that building of the new road is imminent.
Deputy Allen said, “I welcome the fact that this scheme is moving forward to the CPO stage and the submission of plans to An Bord Pleanála. That said, this does not indicate that this scheme is anywhere near construction.
“This road should have been built years ago. The existing route, particularly between Mallow and Charleville is of a very poor standard and is regularly the scene of fatal accidents. Despite this the M20 was dropped from a list of PPP projects to go to tender this year. Now that there has been some forward movement the impression is being given by some that this scheme is now full-steam-ahead. It is not.
“We need only look at the proposed junction upgrades on the South Ring Road at the Bandon Road and Sarsfield Road roundabouts. These schemes have cleared every planning hurdle put the plans sit gathering dust and nothing has happened.
“The South Ring scheme oral hearing was held by An Bord Pleanála in February 2004 and the Scheme was approved in May 2004. In other words the stage we are now at with the M20 was reached on the South Ring Scheme seven years ago. Given that the Government has confirmed no new road schemes will go to construction this year, the earliest the South Ring improvements could go to construction is next year. With a two-year construction phase the improvements would be finished in 2013.
“If the M20 scheme proceeds at the same pace we might expect it to be ready for use in 2020 or thereabouts. I will continue to push for funding for this vital piece of infrastructure and lobby the case for the scheme to be moved up the priority list,” he said.

Tech3

M20 planners offer farm access options

Planners of the €1bn Cork-Limerick M20 motorway have agreed to provide 33 structures for land and farm access for farmers along the route.

The plans represent a big increase in the ratio of access structures on other routes.

The details have been included in the design plans for the 80km motorway from Blarney to Attyflynn, near Adare in Co Limerick, lodged with An Bord Pleaneala last Friday.

Negotiations had been ongoing for several months, with farmers stressing the necessity of access between the land and farmyard for dairy farming as the route crosses the Golden Vale, Munster's most intensive dairy farming region.

An Bord Pleaneala will hold an oral hearing on the plans this summer where farmers can put forward their cases for further consideration.

Link

Sponge Bob

I took the liberty of saving that DWF file in the EIS of the NRA Motorway cross sections as a PDF . You can see for yourself the differences between

2+2 ( D2AP) or country motorway
HQDC ( D2M) or heavy duty motorway near big cities
Standard Motorway (D2M) which would be like the M6 west of Kinnegad or the M7 west of Portlaoise.

All zoomable and printable

csd

Thanks for converting those.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

2+2 ( D2AP) or country motorway

Type 2 dual carriageway, you mean? As in Dromod - Roosky byass. Not motorway though.

/csd

lukejr

Small piece in the Irish Independent today regarding farm access along the proposed M20.

http://www.independent.ie/farming/m20-planners-offer-farm-access-options-2085154.html

M20 planners offer farm access options By Martin Ryan Tuesday March 02 2010
Planners of the €1bn Cork-Limerick M20 motorway have agreed to provide 33 structures for land and farm access for farmers along the route.

The plans represent a big increase in the ratio of access structures on other routes.

The details have been included in the design plans for the 80km motorway from Blarney to Attyflynn, near Adare in Co Limerick, lodged with An Bord Pleaneala last Friday.

Negotiations had been ongoing for several months, with farmers stressing the necessity of access between the land and farmyard for dairy farming as the route crosses the Golden Vale, Munster's most intensive dairy farming region.

An Bord Pleaneala will hold an oral hearing on the plans this summer where farmers can put forward their cases for further consideration.

Irish Independent

fresca

Record of SID case with An Bord Pleanala...

http://www.pleanala.ie/lists/2010/sid/new_sid20100226.htm

case number HA0027
http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0027.htm

Case due to be decided by 30 Aug 2010.

Chris_5339762

Including 'side lanes' and collectors and the mainline part of the N25 at the Kinsale road flyover, you get 11 lanes

BluntGuy

shyhawk wrote: »

Typical demented guff from our own Olympic mouth foaming champion.

How in the name of Ian Paisley do you calculate MN costing 300m a year?

During construction only interest payments required.

300m implies tender cost/borrowing of 6 billion ha ha.

Earth to SB........... calling SB........Hello-ooh....

Sponge job, you need to cut down on the funny tablets...........

Tender bids are well below 2 billion.

Post like this again and you will be banned immediately.

Tech3

Mod Warning:

This is not a Metro North thread. No more posts on this here please or I will hand out severe infractions.

A new thread for MN could be created if it wants to be discussed.

Chris_5339762

Tech3

Thread reopened.

Sponge Bob

The Adare Bypass CPO has also been published, Bacon and Cabbage posted here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055776672&page=4

All we need now is the Cork North Ring CPO and EIS and the whole lot can go to one ABP megahearing where ye will all get to meet Peter Sweetman in person

Chris_5339762

He must be foaming at the mouth at the mere thought of all this stuff to complain about.

mysterious

I'll redesign that awful Rotary interchange provided for the N21 junction. Why on earth are they building these crappy junctions.:mad: They are just a waste of time and money.
There is to much of a focus for local traffic and other roads joining onto this interchange, to allow or give to N21 long distance traffic.

Wild Bill

It's an outrage! :pac:

Chris_5339762

Assuming the scheme finishes on a roundabout anyway and AFAIK has no intermediate junctions then it really isnt a big issue. A trumpet would be nice but there just isnt the AADT for it.