M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

marno21

highwaymaniac wrote: »

No that is completely unrealistic for a project of this scale, i would say it will take An Bord Pleanala 15-18 months alone to decide on the planning application. Tender Process would take 12 months, it will be a PPP contract, so financial due diligence from the funding back would take 6 months alone.

It took them 22 months the last time around (granted, that was the southern half, but if splitting it into 2 halves makes it faster then please do that).

By the way, I think it was you that posted about the 22 months, I had been rattling on about 18 months previously

For reference, it took 5 years for the M21 which hasn't even made it to An Bord Pleanala yet.

Kermit.de.frog

The way we do all infrastructure in this country is a disgrace and needs to change, end of.

There is no debate to be had.

We need less democracy and more action.

JCX BXC

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We need less democracy and more action.

https://youtu.be/kWdfRRtAs3o

highwaymaniac

marno21 wrote: »

It took them 22 months the last time around (granted, that was the southern half, but if splitting it into 2 halves makes it faster then please do that).

By the way, I think it was you that posted about the 22 months, I had been rattling on about 18 months previously

For reference, it took 5 years for the M21 which hasn't even made it to An Bord Pleanala yet.

Yes it took 22 months from starting with a blank page to submission to ABP in Feb 2010. The poster above wants from design start to shovels in the ground to take 15-18 months! Not sure about the reference to the southern half, the previous planning application to ABP was for the full 80kms Blarney to Attyflynn.

Geogregor

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We need less democracy and more action.

Did you consider move to North Korea?

BelfastVanMan

Geogregor wrote: »

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We need less democracy and more action.

Did you consider move to North Korea?

Kim Jong Un-educated....

BelfastVanMan

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Kim Jong Un-educated....

Trumped Trump! :P

marno21

https://twitter.com/CareersUCC/status/1102967723418681344

Barry, Sweco and WSP have been appointed to get the M20 through planning and design (at last).

The use of the phrase "five year project" makes me shudder however.

Mc Love

Bit of an update:

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/369498/design-team-appointed-to-progress-plans-for-limerick-to-cork-motorway.html#.XIjc7N7hJcM.twitter

Turn off your adblocker or you wont be able to view

Joey Joe-Joe Jr

Limerick Leader wrote:

The scheme, which could see Ireland’s second and third cities linked in a little over an hour, is being managed in Limerick.​

So it’s only going to take them an hour and a bit. That’s great news - I thought it would take years!

Kermit.de.frog

Joey Joe-Joe Jr wrote: »

So it’s only going to take them an hour and a bit. That’s great news - I thought it would take years decades!

Fixed

marno21

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/its-15m-of-taxpayers-money--cost-of-proposed-cork-limerick-motorway-being-questioned-911944.html

Ridiculous complaining about this - one week after design & planning starts and we have a moanfest over nothing

Kermit.de.frog

They are 100% right.

There is a design already. Just use it.

No need to redesign it.

marno21

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

They are 100% right.

There is a design already. Just use it.

No need to redesign it.

If it was feasible to use this design, they would be using it. The design is out of date and needs to be redone.

Idbatterim

Bloody farce. Probably preying the next recession comes along and they can scrap it again. Two more years of likely construction inflation too. Pathetic!

Chris_5339762

marno21 wrote: »

If it was feasible to use this design, they would be using it. The design is out of date and needs to be redone.

I would love to know what differences there are between the old rules and the new rules. It was designed as M20, why does it need to be COMPLETELY re-done. Its put the whole roads program back by years and whilst thems-are-the-rules, in the case of the M20 there is part of me that just doesn't see the point of re-doing the whole plan.

AugustusMinimus

Seems like red tape insanity to me. Surely the original route would have been protected all this time from development? What the hell would have changed in 10 years?

RikkFlair

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Seems like red tape insanity to me. Surely the original route would have been protected all this time from development? What the hell would have changed in 10 years?

Only thing I can think of is the 2009 design pdfs show a link to a Southern Adare bypass (just north of Croom) but the Adare scheme has since been changed to northern bypass. But why this small redesign would justify the whole thing to be re-evaluated idk...

Limerick74

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/its-15m-of-taxpayers-money--cost-of-proposed-cork-limerick-motorway-being-questioned-911944.html

Ridiculous complaining about this - one week after design & planning starts and we have a moanfest over nothing

The Examiner keeps incorrectly stating that the M20 got planning permission in 2008 that has now expired. It was removed from planning before a decision was made.

highwaymaniac

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Seems like red tape insanity to me. Surely the original route would have been protected all this time from development? What the hell would have changed in 10 years?

The original route is protected in both county development plans, so if the new design does concur with the old route (probably in parts at least) then there shouldn't be any issues there in terms of CPO.

Unfortunately a hell of lot has changed in terms of environmental legislation and a significant amount of case law coming out of the European courts. Just so much red tape courtesy of the EU, M28 went down the route of using the old alignment, it is currently going through a judicial review in the high court.

JupiterKid

This route is THE critical missing link in our inter-urban motorway system. It is a backlog need and we all know how atrocious much of the existing N20 is, with only Croom fully bypassed.

I pray that this missing link won’t end up like the M2 gap up North which never got filled and in all likelihood never will...

Chris_5339762

The M2 gap up North isn't really a gap, its dual carriageway between the two "bits" of M2. It would be much better as M2 though.

riddlinrussell

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The M2 gap up North isn't really a gap, its dual carriageway between the two "bits" of M2. It would be much better as M2 though.

I would hasten to point out that the A26 Antrim to Ballymena is an extremely poor standard of Dual Carriageway, possibly worse than the current A1, which is really saying something.

Not really disagreeing with your point, just highlighting that its not HQDC standard by a very long way, in case someone got the wrong idea.

Cookiemunster

Amazing how quickly discussion of a motorway project in the South of Ireland can get overtaken by lists of poor roads in the North of Ireland

pajoguy

Is there anywhere that you can view the route that was previously chosen? I think I remember preliminary design drawings for the route.

Isambard

pajoguy wrote: »

Is there anywhere that you can view the route that was previously chosen? I think I remember preliminary design drawings for the route.

i beleive Marno posted the plans in this thread.

Chris_5339762

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I would hasten to point out that the A26 Antrim to Ballymena is an extremely poor standard of Dual Carriageway, possibly worse than the current A1, which is really saying something.

Not really disagreeing with your point, just highlighting that its not HQDC standard by a very long way, in case someone got the wrong idea.

I've driven it myself and it is indeed terrifying. Some of the worse standard DC I've ever seen.

BelfastVanMan

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I would hasten to point out that the A26 Antrim to Ballymena is an extremely poor standard of Dual Carriageway, possibly worse than the current A1, which is really saying something.

Not really disagreeing with your point, just highlighting that its not HQDC standard by a very long way, in case someone got the wrong idea.

I've driven it myself and it is indeed terrifying. Some of the worse standard DC I've ever seen.

Built on the cheap, in 3 sections; 1st one was 1989, then 1999 with the final section in 2001.

Should have just built the M2 instead, and left this for local traffic.

marno21

MOD:

As fascinating as talk of NI roads is, can we return to the M20 please. Anyone at all welcome to start a new thread on the topic if ye'd wish.

steeler j

would the m20 and m21 start together , if the m20 was pressed could it start late 21 to mid 22