M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Sam Russell

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Nonsense.

People still need private vehicles too...buses are not the answer for everyone, free or not.

If the increase in bus use is significant, the congestion will be reduced, making it a win for those that use the free buses and a win for those that must use a car.

One bus can carry the number of people in more than 60 cars. A car is approximately 4 metres long and a bus 10 metres long, so for every bus, 200 metres of congestion could be saved.

It does not take a lot of people to choose the bus to make a huge difference.

Isambard

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Nonsense.

People still need private vehicles too...buses are not the answer for everyone, free or not.

I advocated nothing of the sort. Read the post before declaring it nonsense.

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

I advocated nothing of the sort. Read the post before declaring it nonsense.

We don't live in a utopia, and we all accept that some level of private transport use is necessary. Especially in remote parts of North Cork.

M20 end-to-end passengers will have a better option by bus when the road is upgraded because the times will be more dependable. Potentially, it'll start becoming more dependable by bus than car as the congestion builds up at both cities.

cgcsb

The green party are also opposed to public transport and cycling though, when it conflicts with the greed of their constituents.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we leave discussion of the Green Party to the politics forum where they might be able to answer back. It was not the GP that did not build the M20 when it should have been built. I think Michael Noonan had a finger in that pie.

marno21

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Can we leave discussion of the Green Party to the politics forum where they might be able to answer back. It was not the GP that did not build the M20 when it should have been built. I think Michael Noonan had a finger in that pie.

Indeed, and thankfully this individual has no input on national planning matters.

Best thing for this crap is the next time people you know are on about the (lack of) M20, make sure they are aware of the Green Party's views no matter now much the person cares about the environment or climate change.

Cork Trucker

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think Michael Noonan had a finger in that pie.

Michael Noonan knows all about pies (in the face) :pac:

Are the Green Party on this site over in the politics forum? If so I didn’t know that.

Sam Russell

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Michael Noonan knows all about pies (in the face) :pac:

Are the Green Party on this site over in the politics forum? If so I didn’t know that.

Mod:
No, but discussion of political parties does not belong here.

By the way, do not discuss Mod instructions on thread. PM or report post function.

Isambard

Isambard wrote: »

I'd have some sympathy with the Green philosophy. In the past 120 years or so, the motor vehicle has pretty much destroyed the planet. In the long term, public transport has to become the solution, make it free and make the car expensive would be the way to go. However , we are where we are and a short term solution to people dying is to build the M20 asap

Wouldn't a better short term solution be to reduce the speed limit? Surely that alone would achieve lives saved?

Isambard

Deleted User wrote: »

Wouldn't a better short term solution be to reduce the speed limit? Surely that alone would achieve lives saved?

If it was monitored. We have an odd habit of putting speed checks in open countryside when it's in urban and suburban areas where speed most needs to be reduced.

Well if we're talking about short term solutions to save lives seems a lot cheaper, faster and easier to do than building the M20.

marno21

Speed limit has been reduced on the N20 eg Ballybeg bends and hospital junction at Mallow

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Speed limit has been reduced on the N20 eg Ballybeg bends and hospital junction at Mallow

Been a while since i was out that way, what have they been reduced to? 60km/h?

hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

Well if we're talking about short term solutions to save lives seems a lot cheaper, faster and easier to do than building the M20.

I agree that speed reduction and enforcement are good short-term measures but there's only so far you can reasonably go with that strategy too. For instance, if you slow the N20 down further, more people will simply join me rat-running on the R513. If you reduce the speeds there, we'll all rat-run elsewhere. What's needed is the M20.

In a dream scenario also commuter rail from Charleville to Dooradoyle and on to Limerick.

KELTICKNIGHTT

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I agree that speed reduction and enforcement are good short-term measures but there's only so far you can reasonably go with that strategy too. For instance, if you slow the N20 down further, more people will simply join me rat-running on the R513. If you reduce the speeds there, we'll all rat-run elsewhere. What's needed is the M20.

In a dream scenario also commuter rail from Charleville to Dooradoyle and on to Limerick.

Maybe make train tickets more reasonable as expensive.would help also.
N20 needs to be a motorway. Second and third biggest city's in Ireland.
There a hugh amount of commercial vehicles on n20 every days.

Isambard

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I agree that speed reduction and enforcement are good short-term measures but there's only so far you can reasonably go with that strategy too. For instance, if you slow the N20 down further, more people will simply join me rat-running on the R513. If you reduce the speeds there, we'll all rat-run elsewhere. What's needed is the M20.

In a dream scenario also commuter rail from Charleville to Dooradoyle and on to Limerick.

an hourly stopping train via Limerick Junction, to Limerick, with extra stations and connecting at the junction with a proper service to Waterford would be of far greater value, but you digress :-)

Reputable Rog

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Wouldn't a better short term solution be to reduce the speed limit? Surely that alone would achieve lives saved?

It couldn't possibly move any slower than at present. It can take over 30 minutes to get from Mallow to Buttevant, a distance of 12km.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Isambard wrote: »

an hourly stopping train via Limerick Junction, to Limerick, with extra stations and connecting at the junction with a proper service to Waterford would be of far greater value, but you digress :-)

M20 motorway

prunudo

If anything M20 will benefit the environment and green agenda. How is it good to have traffic stuck in the villages and towns along the n20. By opening up a Cork-Limerick motorway you're encouraging express bus services along the route similar to what happens between Dublin and Galway since the M6 was completed.
It also makes it more efficient to transport goods between the 2 cities as the journey times will reduce but if you were to believe the green brigade, motorways are only for cars.

Cookiemunster

Isambard wrote: »

an hourly stopping train via Limerick Junction, to Limerick, with extra stations and connecting at the junction with a proper service to Waterford would be of far greater value, but you digress :-)

And how will this train get people to where they work in Raheen, Castletroy, Annacotty or even Shannon? Most using the current N20 aren't going city to city and aren't heading to the city centers. Your idea will simply lead to more empty loss making trains.

Isambard

it's not my idea, it's my rebuttal of the idea to re-open the direct line.

The M20 motorway would be of no use at all to people heading for the Lim Jnc /Tipperary area.

The places you list can be served by bus for the handful of passengers likely from Charleville.

I do wish people would read the posts.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Isambard wrote: »

it's not my idea, it's my rebuttal of the idea to re-open the direct line.

The M20 motorway would be of no use at all to people heading for the Lim Jnc /Tipperary area.

The places you list can be served by bus for the handful of passengers likely from Charleville.

I do wish people would read the posts.

No.it doesn't
There a huge amount of commercial traffic on n20. No bus or train going to help.

Its cheaper for me to have a car with insurance and tax and fuel added in than take the bus. That's a very very sad statement of our so called transport system.
I know many people who have to drive n20 every day in commercial vehicles and also in cars.
There is no way will transport system work for major of users of n20.

Plus it's a crap road in bad weather . Look at m8 or m7 .how its help everyone.

This answer of bus or train isn't going to work for everyone even if they drop tickets prices .And we know they wont.
As a regular user of n20 a motorway is needed.
Many users of n20 I know say the same and sick of excuses of why it's not built yet.

If you dont agree with a m20 motorway being built then your in a minority because there a huge amount of people who are waiting decades.

The citys will grow and m20 motorway will be a lot safer then it currently is in many ways.

I use to have from limerick to cork years ago and it bad road then .its changed very little in 20 years and today I'm driving opposite direction. I have several stops on the way so no bus or train will work for me as I use equipment for work.

Isambard

KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »

No.it doesn't
There a huge amount of commercial traffic on n20. No bus or train going to help.

Its cheaper for me to have a car with insurance and tax and fuel added in than take the bus. That's a very very sad statement of our so called transport system.
I know many people who have to drive n20 every day in commercial vehicles and also in cars.
There is no way will transport system work for major of users of n20.

Plus it's a crap road in bad weather . Look at m8 or m7 .how its help everyone.

This answer of bus or train isn't going to work for everyone even if they drop tickets prices .And we know they wont.
As a regular user of n20 a motorway is needed.
Many users of n20 I know say the same and sick of excuses of why it's not built yet.

If you dont agree with a m20 motorway being built then your in a minority because there a huge amount of people who are waiting decades.

The citys will grow and m20 motorway will be a lot safer then it currently is in many ways.

I use to have from limerick to cork years ago and it bad road then .its changed very little in 20 years and today I'm driving opposite direction. I have several stops on the way so no bus or train will work for me as I use equipment for work.

again I wish people would read the posts, you are totally misrepresenting me.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Isambard wrote: »

again I wish people would read the posts, you are totally misrepresenting me.

Your bit about being no use to limerick junction and tipperary and about Charlieville served by a bus .
Not everyone coming to and from charleville.
Its cork to limerick as whole it's for.
Why you on about limerick junction and tipp.thats way off other direction.
They decided go n20 route.

AugustusMinimus

Build a new train line between Cork and Limerick and you’ll see numbers like using the Limerick Galway service.

Limerick74

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Build a new train line between Cork and Limerick and you’ll see numbers like using the Limerick Galway service.

Surprisingly there is a queue of students out the door of Limerick Station every Friday for the train to Galway. Quieter other times I’m sure.

hans aus dtschl

We digress, but Dooradoyle could/should be better linked than just by road.

Meantime, the M20 will improve bus times, as others have said.

Isambard

quoting myself "However , we are where we are and a short term solution to people dying is to build the M20 asap"
which bit do people not understand?

Bass Reeves

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Build a new train line between Cork and Limerick and you’ll see numbers like using the Limerick Galway service.

Along with PPARs, and voting machine's a huge waste of exchequer funds. Only used by students and OAP's it is heavily subsidized. Busses on the motorway would do the same job as they do on the M7.
If the N 20 option is used rather than a ring road around county Limerick via Cahir it will revolution the Cork to Galway corridor. Cork to Galway will be a sub two hour journey. When you add in the Foynes Port access road you have a complete economic area with a viable port and airport right in the center of it.

Because of out population density and urban sprawl ( and in an ideal situation we would not start here) Busses are much more efficient transport system than trains especially adding in the journey time on the Limerick Galway route. The ability of the private sector to deliver commercial bus routes to demand is a huge advantage of buses over rail as a transfer system in Ireland

Limerick74

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/disagreement-over-whether-m20-project-is-the-way-f/