M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Cork Trucker

Limerick74 wrote: »

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/disagreement-over-whether-m20-project-is-the-way-f/

The road has to go ahead,and along the N20 corridor very simple. worrying times now between this, the Dunkettle Interchange and the M28.

prunudo

Since when has Eamon Ryan been the go to expert on infrastructure projects. For the last 6 months I've heard him on various radio shows discussing various projects and each time he wants them either cancelled or put back to the drawing board. Always throwing up various problems but never actually providing realistic alternatives.

Baldilocks

this is an unfortunate side effect of the protest vote that has given the greens some many council seats.

I am green thinking, (reduced my plastic wrapped purchases, use a wormery, pick up the 3 for sea everytime I'm on a fresh or saltwater) but there is no way that I would vote green. The current crop of green-atics have confused their passion for their position with fact.

Rail is not really a viable option in Ireland - our population density is far too low for it to be sustainable. The fact driving from Cork to Dublin is cheaper and faster than the train is proof enough for me that rail will never work on the west coast.

Bass Reeves

Baldilocks wrote: »

this is an unfortunate side effect of the protest vote that has given the greens some many council seats.

I am green thinking, (reduced my plastic wrapped purchases, use a wormery, pick up the 3 for sea everytime I'm on a fresh or saltwater) but there is no way that I would vote green. The current crop of green-atics have confused their passion for their position with fact.

Rail is not really a viable option in Ireland - our population density is far too low for it to be sustainable. The fact driving from Cork to Dublin is cheaper and faster than the train is proof enough for me that rail will never work on the west coast.

The last time the greens were in power they changed the car tax rules. We ended up with a situation where pre 2008 cars are cruified by car tax and the revenue from car tax on new car has diminished.As well these diesel cars are now considered a liability pollution wise.

L1011

Ryan also became a useful idiot for rich South Dublin residents to oppose Metrolink. He's dangerous. His crayons will ensure that absolutely nothing gets done if he's let near power

Cork Trucker

L1011 wrote: »

Ryan also became a useful idiot for rich South Dublin residents to oppose Metrolink. He's dangerous. His crayons will ensure that absolutely nothing gets done if he's let near power

His last time in office wasn’t pleasant at all. It just went to show what FF/PD’s were willing to do to hold onto power then. There wouldn’t be a major road project in the country go ahead if they were head of government.

The M20 is something they probably believe they can stop if this green wave rolls on into the next general election and they return to the cabinet table.

Cookiemunster

Cork Trucker wrote: »

His last time in office wasn’t pleasant at all. It just went to show what FF/PD’s were willing to do to hold onto power then. There wouldn’t be a major road project in the country go ahead if they were head of government.

The M20 is something they probably believe they can stop if this green wave rolls on into the next general election and they return to the cabinet table.

The thing is that the green wave didn't really happen. It's all build on the exit polls which wildly overestimated the number of seats that the Greens finally ended up with. Yes they improved, but they got 5.5% of the national vote. In a general election I think they'd struggle to even overtake Labour.

cgcsb

Baldilocks wrote: »

Rail is not really a viable option in Ireland - our population density is far too low for it to be sustainable. The fact driving from Cork to Dublin is cheaper and faster than the train is proof enough for me that rail will never work on the west coast.

Don't be silly, Sweden has a high quality medium/high speed rail service across a country that is way more sparsely populated than Ireland. Your argument is against the lack of investment in rail, which you would put you in agreement with the green party.

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

Don't be silly, Sweden has a high quality medium/high speed rail service across a country that is way more sparsely populated than Ireland. Your argument is against the lack of investment in rail, which you would put you in agreement with the green party.

we have a decent system under the circs for services across the country. it's service UP the country where noone lives is the bone of contention

cgcsb

Isambard wrote: »

we have a decent system under the circs for services across the country. it's service UP the country where noone lives is the bone of contention

Cork to Limerick is hardly 'up the country' they should have an hourly rail connection and services that take about an hour and 10 mins, regardless of what happens to the M20. This is easily achievable with a small investment. For a little more money hourly Cork-Galway trains should offer a 2.5 hour journey. This is standard fare in industrialised countries.

The biggest problem though is we're spending billions on intercity motorways, when really the 1st and foremost issue is transport within the cities, which is absolutely dire in this country. Intra-city transport is much more heavily used than inter-city and investment in the former yields much better results. Unfortunately this government sees fit to do nothing about transport in Cork for the next 10 years, when they promise they'll re-open the luas, commuter rail and bus connects projects for another round of public consultation.

Isambard

I agree but in the context of this thread, people advocating re-opening the Charleville to Limerick direct line alongside the new motorway will achieve two things, a delay to the motorway and an increase in cost due to the very different gradient profile necessary.

There is an hourly rail connection as it is with a change at the Junction. Just needs some joined up thinking

This subject wants splitting off to a separate thread really. A semi fast service as you describe with additional stations opened would be a better investment to that which was actually being promoted here, the WRC

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

This subject wants splitting off to a separate thread really.

Yep, this has almost nothing to do with the M20.
Is almost an entirely different subject.

cgcsb

I think the main takeway point is there should be a reasonably quick frequent rail service from Galway to Cork, but that's neither here nor there regarding the M20, the only overlap to consider is if both projects should happen simultaneously on a short stretch (Charleville to Limerick) to reduce costs. I think it should, land aquisition could be slashed this way.

Isambard

cgcsb wrote: »

I think the main takeway point is there should be a reasonably quick frequent rail service from Galway to Cork, but that's neither here nor there regarding the M20, the only overlap to consider is if both projects should happen simultaneously on a short stretch (Charleville to Limerick) to reduce costs. I think it should, land aquisition could be slashed this way.

yes but as I explained it would actually increase costs (due to the gradient profile differential and also more land being required)) and make the motorway build take longer or not happen at all.

Galway to Cork currently takes about 4 hours whether you go via Heuston or change at Portarlington and Portlaoise or go via Limerick. There's one train (could be more) there that does it in 3 h50m which entails a change at Limerick and a direct train to Cork which perhaps shows what time could be saved by a through service.

Citylink does it in 2 hours 50 , i don't think rail will ever beat that, especially as it will improve with the M20 extension

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

yes but as I explained it would actually increase costs (due to the gradient profile differential and also more land being required)) and make the motorway build take longer or not happen at all.

This is all immaterial: nothing of this nature is going to happen. We'll be lucky to get a road. The last new rail line in the general area was Midleton and that was an old line that was reopened.

Even if somebody does get the bright idea to put a rail line on roughly the same corridor as the road, and even if an acceptable route is all chosen etc, that still means nothing, as we've seen.

There is zero political appetite to deliver critical infrastructure in the Cork area. We're in flying pigs territory here.

marno21

There is absolutely zero chance of a rail line being constructed with the M20. Absolutely zero. And that’s aside from issues like the M20 being west of Charleville and the rail line being east

In light of that, can we focus discussion on the M20 please. Feel free to start a discussion on Cork-Limerick rail in the Infrastructure forum

hans aus dtschl

Back on the point of the M20 the preferred route corridor (as declared here https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf) includes some re-use of existing N20 alignment.
South of Mallow, near Ballyhea, and around Croom.

I'd suggest there's still some need for a local traffic "N20" type road in some of these areas as follows: south of Mallow, I don't think it's appropriate to have Blarney traffic on the M20.
Ballyhea is self explanatory.

I could be reading too much into a low-resolution image TBF.

Idbatterim

those green idiots, it was the same with dublin metro recently. I gave them a vote at the locals, as the environment is important and FG couldnt give a toss about it until they found out there was a few votes in it. But they are a joke of a party!

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Back on the point of the M20 the preferred route corridor (as declared here https://static.rasset.ie/documents/news/m20-executive-summary-june-2017.pdf) includes some re-use of existing N20 alignment.
South of Mallow, near Ballyhea, and around Croom.

I'd suggest there's still some need for a local traffic "N20" type road in some of these areas as follows: south of Mallow, I don't think it's appropriate to have Blarney traffic on the M20.
Ballyhea is self explanatory.

I could be reading too much into a low-resolution image TBF.

The original plan had the usage of the N20 south of the Burnfort turnoff around Mourneabbey, around 2km of existing N20 in the townland of Velvetstown north of Buttevant (where the two M20 schemes would meet) and the Croom bypass (not the ~3km of widened S2 south of Patrickswell, just the actual 2001 Croom bypass)

All would include alternative routes for non motorway traffic

The old N20 would be used north of Croom plus a Croom relief road (to be built anyway for housing afaik)
A S2 alternative route around Velvetstown (there is a large land reservation there anyway)
A mixture of new S2 roads and the old Mallow road near Cork

Boots234

Is that horse fair on in Buttevant today?

wingfo

Boots234 wrote: »

Is that horse fair on in Buttevant today?

Yes just drove through it traders setti g up stalls horses and donkeys everywhere and the road covered in ****e and that was 715

Boots234

wingfo wrote: »

Yes just drove through it traders setti g up stalls horses and donkeys everywhere and the road covered in ****e and that was 715

I presume they will have diversions through Buttevant during the day. Will it still be blocked off at around 8pm tonight?

Cork Trucker

Only in Ireland would a major road between the 2nd and 3rd cities be closed for a bloody horse fair.

Isambard

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Only is Ireland would a major road between the 2nd and 3rd cities be closed for a bloody horse fair.

you'd think they could find a solution to move it off the road! Cahermee as a historic location is miles away anyway.

Cork Trucker

Isambard wrote: »

you'd think they could find a solution to move it off the road! Cahermee as a historic location is miles away anyway.

By closing off one of the main roads along the N20 will garner more attention than it normally would, maybe this is part of the reason why, to draw more people = more revenue/awareness etc. Only for the street closure i certainly wouldn't know what the bloody fair was.

Isambard

I don't think it's an organised affair in those terms. The participants just turn up on the 12th and the road closure is a reaction to that. I suspect they'd still be on the road even if a suitable neighbouring field was available.

Cork Trucker

Isambard wrote: »

I don't think it's an organised affair in those terms. The participants just turn up on the 12th and the road closure is a reaction to that. I suspect they'd still be on the road even if a suitable neighbouring field was available.

A case of 'we'll do as we want' ??? Try doing this in the middle of Patrick Street in Cork City Centre and it wouldn't last

Isambard

normally I'd say you're full of ****, but I reckon Buttevant is fuller..... (Only joking)

Limerick74

900 - 550 = 550 �� https://www.live95fm.ie/news/authorities-urged-to-look-at-different-route-for-m/

Cork Trucker

Limerick74 wrote: »

900 - 550 = 550 �� https://www.live95fm.ie/news/authorities-urged-to-look-at-different-route-for-m/

Will these people ever just fcuk off trying to justify going via the M8/N24, the N20 is and will always be a deathtrap of a road unless the M20 shadows the N20. That man wouldn't dare stand in front of any family who have lost a loved one on that road and say it, incidentally, have any such persons come forward to support the M20.