M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Markcheese

spacetweek wrote: »

Plenty in Eastern Europe

To be honest, I couldn't give a fiddlers Wether it's a motorway or not, but the road from Mallow on is brutal, and should have been done 30 years ago... And in fairness in European terms neither cork nor limerick are huge,

In motorway terms Cork, limerick and Waterford
Motorways probably should have met in tipperary and then headed towards Dublin (and not had motorways for all) ... But that ship has long sailed.... (and still would have required serious upgrading for the n roads).

Idbatterim

has this project not been scrapped again yet? sure they announced the multibillion nbp... Actually there is an election in a few months, theyll try to secure power and scrap it then, same as the dublin metro :rolleyes:

but we do have the worlds most expensive childrens hospital!

hans aus dtschl

My prediction: new government will come in and say "we didn't realise how bad the finances were, we're canning the M20".

Cork Trucker

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

My prediction: new government will come in and say "we didn't realise how bad the finances were, we're canning the M20".

The children's hospital, national broadband plan and the homeless issue will be the reasons for it on top of that.

road_high

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The children's hospital, national broadband plan and the homeless issue will be the reasons for it on top of that.

Especially if those Green idiots get in- can see roads getting scrapped fast

Cork Trucker

road_high wrote: »

Especially if those Green idiots get in- can see roads getting scrapped fast

Our existing motorways will be abs dual carriageways will be replaced with cycle lanes and trees

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep to the motorway planned for Cork to Limerick please.

Keep sniping at political parties for the politics forums.

Thank you.

Chris_5339762

Lets not forget that on old OS maps, the windy section around Buttevant hasn't been realigned since the end of the 1800s!!

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Probably just Western Europe but it’s saying a lot that I cannot say for certain.

Transnistria or Nagorno-Karabakh perhaps?

Norway - Bergen to Stavanger
Finland - Tampere to Turku

Both wealthy but low population density countries like ourselves.

blindsider

Deleted User wrote: »

Norway - Bergen to Stavanger
Finland - Tampere to Turku

Both wealthy but low population density countries like ourselves.

Bergen to Stavanger - how many bays/inlets lie between the 2? Seriously!

Acc. to Wiki Espoo and Tampere are the 2nd and 3rd largest cities respectively and there is M-way between them (E18 and E12).

Do you think there shouldn't be motorway between Cork and Limerick?

it's worth adding, you can't even get a direct train from Cork to Limerick, it takes 1.5 or 2 hrs, depending on number of changes!

cgcsb

Scotland

Bass Reeves

cgcsb wrote: »

Scotland

There is no country called Scotland. There is a region in the UK called Scotland

cgcsb

Ooo how technical. Ok let's see Greece technically doesn't, there are gaps. Neither do Norway, Finalnd, Iceland, Switzerland.

In terms of roads Scotland does have it's own numbering system and it's own budget and ability to self govern on these matters so it's effectively a country for the purpose of this discussion. I didn't mention Wales or Northern Ireland because they are not.

AugustusMinimus

cgcsb wrote: »

Scotland

Motorway no. There’s continuous dual carriageway though.

Espoo is a suburb of Helsinki and isn't comparable to Cork to Limerick.

I'm academic about whether the motorway is built - I would like it for the odd time I might use it.

I just want to demonstrate that Ireland isn't exceptional by any means. We just don't have the same population density or cities size as most western European countries we are being compared to.

Isambard

Bass Reeves wrote: »

There is no country called Scotland. There is a region in the UK called Scotland

totally wrong. Scotland has it's own legal system and many other differences. The UK stands for United Kingdom, Countries united under the same Monarch.

hans aus dtschl

Deleted User wrote: »

I just want to demonstrate that Ireland isn't exceptional by any means. We just don't have the same population density or cities size as most western European countries we are being compared to.

I don't think that matters to me, with regards the N20: the road badly needs to be regularised. Whether it's motorway or whatever specification is a matter for the experts crunching the AADT figures. But it's claiming lives at present, with it's 1800's alignment and narrow width.

blindsider

Deleted User wrote: »

Espoo is a suburb of Helsinki and isn't comparable to Cork to Limerick.

I'm academic about whether the motorway is built - I would like it for the odd time I might use it.

I just want to demonstrate that Ireland isn't exceptional by any means. We just don't have the same population density or cities size as most western European countries we are being compared to.

From Wiki:
Espoo (Finnish: [ˈespoː]; Swedish: Esbo [¹ɛsːbɔ],[check IPA] Finland Swedish: [ˈesːbo] (About this soundlisten)) is the second largest city and municipality in Finland.

Debate over. You didn't mention Bergen-Stavanger.

Many people on this thread post because they see the bigger picture - not because they might/might not use a motorway occasionally.

Thankfully, I haven't been admitted to a hospital in 30+ yrs - I still think we have urgent healthcare needs!

SeanW

As to why Norway or Finland might not have motorway links between regional cities, that might have something to do with the fact that both countries have similar populations to Ireland, but have much greater physical area. That is, much lower density and much greater distances between regional cities than Ireland. Thusly "but Norway and Finland don't have these types of links" is not a reason not to build the M20.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we keep discussion of other countries failings as to provision of motorways for somewhere else and concentrate discussion on the bit of Ireland in Munster that needs a bit of relief as far as roads are concerned.

If you need to discuss such matters then open a new thread. Further posts will be deleted.

Thank you.

ncounties

blindsider wrote: »

From Wiki:
Espoo (Finnish: [ˈespoː]; Swedish: Esbo [¹ɛsːbɔ],[check IPA] Finland Swedish: [ˈesːbo] (About this soundlisten)) is the second largest city and municipality in Finland.

Debate over. You didn't mention Bergen-Stavanger.

Many people on this thread post because they see the bigger picture - not because they might/might not use a motorway occasionally.

Thankfully, I haven't been admitted to a hospital in 30+ yrs - I still think we have urgent healthcare needs!

The last time I looked, Belfast and Cork where linked by a mixture of dual carriageway and motorway...

Cookiemunster

ncounties wrote: »

The last time I looked, Belfast and Cork where linked by a mixture of dual carriageway and motorway...

At this moment in time Belfast and Cork are in a different countries, so the fact that they're linked by motorway/dual carriageway has no relevance to the conversation.

Cork Trucker

ncounties wrote: »

The last time I looked, Belfast and Cork where linked by a mixture of dual carriageway and motorway...

As Cookie said, different jurisdictions. In the event of a United Ireland which is a totally different discussion it would be relevant. To get there from the Republic side compromises of,From Cork, M8-M7-N7-M50-M1 (in ROI) then over the border and onto the A1- M1 (in N.I)

blindsider

I won't reply.

#5631 from Sam Russell.

hans aus dtschl

Back on topic, why so much resistance to the M20? Why don't people understand that the current route is so inadequate? Is it a case of not enough people have had to drive it? Or not enough people "who matter" have had to drive it?

I'm not one to often call for "more roads" but I understand the need for this one. I don't drive it very often either, for context: I probably haven't driven it in 6 months or more. It just seems like a really obvious infrastructural deficit to me.

niloc1951

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Back on topic, why so much resistance to the M20? Why don't people understand that the current route is so inadequate? Is it a case of not enough people have had to drive it? Or not enough people "who matter" have had to drive it?

I'm not one to often call for "more roads" but I understand the need for this one. I don't drive it very often either, for context: I probably haven't driven it in 6 months or more. It just seems like a really obvious infrastructural deficit to me.

IMHIO it's so much resistsnace to the project, it's more of an incompetance issue or pure disinterest.
Our permanent government is pretty useless, just think of all the cock-ups they are responsible for like PPARS, PULSE, Children's Hospital, Printing Machine, Voting Machines, Hospital Waiting Lists, A&E overcrowding, N40, JLT Interchange, where does the list end

hans aus dtschl

niloc1951 wrote: »

IMHIO it's so much resistsnace to the project, it's more of an incompetance issue or pure disinterest.
Our permanent government is pretty useless, just think of all the cock-ups they are responsible for like PPARS, PULSE, Children's Hospital, Printing Machine, Voting Machines, Hospital Waiting Lists, A&E overcrowding, N40, JLT Interchange, where does the list end

You're right. I'm seeing it as deliberate thoughts/actions whereas stupidity/incompetence is more likely.

marno21

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

You're right. I'm seeing it as deliberate thoughts/actions whereas stupidity/incompetence is more likely.

There’s a lack of someone to babysit it also. Two major road projects starting in Q1 next year both had Ministers to put pressure on the relevant people to push the projects through (Ring/Creed)

alias no.9

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Back on topic, why so much resistance to the M20? Why don't people understand that the current route is so inadequate? Is it a case of not enough people have had to drive it? Or not enough people "who matter" have had to drive it?

I'm not one to often call for "more roads" but I understand the need for this one. I don't drive it very often either, for context: I probably haven't driven it in 6 months or more. It just seems like a really obvious infrastructural deficit to me.

We in Ireland have a long history of doing infrastructure on a half assed 'lower cost' basis which inevitably leads to the whole thing needing to be significantly upgraded at a later date.

This is simply the latest installment in that process mixed in with a liberal smattering of common or garden NIMBY.

Bass Reeves

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Back on topic, why so much resistance to the M20? Why don't people understand that the current route is so inadequate? Is it a case of not enough people have had to drive it? Or not enough people "who matter" have had to drive it?

I'm not one to often call for "more roads" but I understand the need for this one. I don't drive it very often either, for context: I probably haven't driven it in 6 months or more. It just seems like a really obvious infrastructural deficit to me.

alias no.9 wrote: »

We in Ireland have a long history of doing infrastructure on a half assed 'lower cost' basis which inevitably leads to the whole thing needing to be significantly upgraded at a later date.

This is simply the latest installment in that process mixed in with a liberal smattering of common or garden NIMBY.

There is a couple complicating issues. Government ability to fund projects are limited and the NBP and the NCH will swallow funding over the next few years. As well there is strong lobbying for rail/underground transport system for Dublin which will be a very expensive project as well.

The last two motorways build Ennis-Tuam (Limerick-Galway)and Waterford to Dublin were over specified projects. Green concerns think we should all be on bike's or trains. They fail to see the demand side of this project and the fact it will act a counterbalance to Dublin population wise and a draw for industry to locate in the region. It also opens up the whole SW region. However there are still many who consider rail as an option for all transport in Ireland.