M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Sponge Bob

tech2 wrote: »

Do you have a link to this one? I thought both sections of the M20 were put at the bottom of the NRA's PPP priority tree? If so then a start next year would be unlikely surely.

A start next year is but a fantasy. A start during this decade would be great!

Chris_5339762

tech2 wrote: »

Do you have a link to this one? I thought both sections of the M20 were put at the bottom of the NRA's PPP priority tree? If so then a start next year would be unlikely surely.

I thought so too. Defiantely saw it in one of the contract documents I have but I'm damned if I can find it now

clon

This extract taken from Transport commitee last week in the Oireachtas.

here is the link where you can read all the questions and answers by Fred barry and Hugh Creedan of the NRA.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=TRJ20100407.xml&Node=H2&Page=4

Mr. Fred Barry: The Chairman asked what is next . A number of projects have been tendered as public private partnerships and funding is available to support them. Work on the N11, Arklow-Rathnew, Newlands Cross, the Enniscorthy bypass, the New Ross bypass and the southern section of the M20 Cork-Limerick route will proceed as individual PPP projects. They will be signed up at the end of this year or at the end of 2011 and will be completed over the coming three or four years.

The current multi-annual capital plan allows for discretionary money next year which we hope to use to build some of the smaller bypasses that have been planned for some time, including Belturbet, Longford along the N5, Tralee and a couple of junctions on the southern ring-road in Cork. We will pursue the tendering process for these projects this year but will have to await next year’s budget before awarding contracts.

Chairman: I take it the Gort-Tuam road is among the major projects.


Mr. Fred Barry: It is one of the PPP projects and the tender for it is at an advanced stage. Beyond these projects, the multi-annual funding programme as it currently stands provides very limited discretionary money and once we pay for safety projects, pavement rehabilitation and general operations our level of funding allows little else to be done for the indefinite future. However, we are preparing a report for the Minister for Transport which we hope to finalise by the end of the summer on projects that we think need to be pursued and when they can be completed, depending on funding. These include our ongoing assessment of the condition of all national secondary roads, the balance of the national primary roads and the pressures that traffic growth in a recovering economy will put on the system.

Hogzy

Is the 'chairman' from the Gort-Tuam area or something?

BluntGuy

Galway Bypass has dissappeared?

Doesn't really matter because I doubt very much that ALL of those PPP projects he mentioned will go ahead.

The smaller schemes look more realistic. We could prob manage all of the small schemes he mentioned in a 3-5 year timescale.

KerranJast

The Southern section of the M20 is the least important section. There's already 2&1 most of the way from Mallow to Cork and the road has a pretty decent safety record in recent years. Even at rush hour its only 20 mins from Mallow to Cork on that road.

It's Mallow to Croom that badly needs doing. It can sometimes take up to 90mins to get that far on that road and it's a road safety nightmare.

trellheim

Did I read that right, Newlands X will be PPP ? i.e. you'll have to pay a toll ?

mysterious

trellheim wrote: »

Did I read that right, Newlands X will be PPP ? i.e. you'll have to pay a toll ?

No Newlands cant be a toll. It's an all public road. The tollbridge is just beyond this point anyhow.

it just means the road will be built by a private operator and funded privately. The N11 won't be tolled either.

marmurr1916

trellheim wrote: »

Did I read that right, Newlands X will be PPP ? i.e. you'll have to pay a toll ?

No you won't have to pay a toll.

Only certain PPP schemes will be tolled, the rest will either be untolled or will have shadow tolls, based on traffic volumes etc, payable by the government directly to the contractors.

However, road users won't pay any toll on shadow toll schemes.

PPP doesn't automatically equal toll.

Chris_5339762

KerranJast wrote: »

The Southern section of the M20 is the least important section. There's already 2&1 most of the way from Mallow to Cork and the road has a pretty decent safety record in recent years. Even at rush hour its only 20 mins from Mallow to Cork on that road.

It's Mallow to Croom that badly needs doing. It can sometimes take up to 90mins to get that far on that road and it's a road safety nightmare.

Agreed. But I reckon the Southern Section is going ahead first for two reasons.

1) Delays in hooking the Adare bypass up to the Northern section.
2) Having the Buttevant - Croom section sandwiched between two sections of M20 will be unacceptable and may push funding/process forward for the M20 north.

munchkin_utd

Deadline fast approaching for motorway objectors
By Sean O’Riordan
Friday, April 23, 2010

OBJECTORS have until close of business on Monday to lodge submissions with An Bord Pleanála in relation to the construction of a €600 million motorway linking Cork and Limerick.
<snip>

Cork county engineer Noel O’Keeffe said the project involved constructing a motorway from the Blarney Business Park to Croom, which would include a bypass at Adare and the construction of the Mallow northern relief road.

"The first phase of the project would be from the Blarney Business Park to north of Buttevant," Mr O’Keeffe said.

If everything went to plan at the oral hearing, and if funding was put in place, construction of phase one could start as early as 2012.

When the project was initially costed a few years ago, it was estimated funding would set the Government back €800m.

However, Mr O’Keeffe said falling prices had meant it could be done for around €600m.

The Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) for the project is available at council area offices in Cork and Limerick.

Details of the scheme are also available on Cork County Council’s National Roads Office website www.corkrdo.ie

Mr O’Keeffe said the motorway would be built under a Public Private Partnership as part of the Government’s plans for the Atlantic Corridor, which is part of Transport 21.

The new motorway will connect to a new highway, which will run northwards to Letterkenny in Co Donegal.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/deadline-fast-approaching-for-motorway-objectors-117949.html

corktina

the southern section as defined here would actually take out all the bad bits except for Charleville town. The very worse bit is the bit south of Buttevant which would be included. The road north of Buttevant to Charleville and north from Charleville to the Croom bypass is actually quite acceptable in the short term.

Chris_5339762

Wouldnt say acceptable TBH as a lot of people have died along there (totally due to stupid overtaking and some bad junctions). However, for most people there are some reasonably straight bits and some ok overtaking opportunities.

Its really Buttevant - Croom that needs doing but the scheme has to be split somewhere. Both bits need doing equally badly and having motorway from Croom to the split, and then to plough into the Buttevant curves would be more ridiculous than coming off the motorway at the split and then being forcefully traffic calmed into Charleville.

Sponge Bob

No sign of the Cork NRR EIS yet . I understand that publication has been put back to september (earliest) because Fehilly Timoney were very busy with a windfarm in a bog out in Connemara.

Chris_5339762

Also the Cork NRR has been decoupled from M20 South as far as I know.

As for Adare and M20 north, I still dont know.

corktina

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Wouldnt say acceptable TBH as a lot of people have died along there (totally due to stupid overtaking and some bad junctions). However, for most people there are some reasonably straight bits and some ok overtaking opportunities.

Its really Buttevant - Croom that needs doing but the scheme has to be split somewhere. Both bits need doing equally badly and having motorway from Croom to the split, and then to plough into the Buttevant curves would be more ridiculous than coming off the motorway at the split and then being forcefully traffic calmed into Charleville.

Yes but according to this thread the first bit is Blarney to NORTH of Buttevant meaning the very worst bit past Ballybeg will be in the first section so its misleading to say its "Buttevant to Croom that really needs doing" PLUS that awful two+one will be going, plus Mallow will be bypassed AND Rathduff AND TwopothouseAND Buttevant itself. Its also about 2/3rds of the distance so I think its the right decision.

Leonard Hofstadter

From next Friday it will be faster to go to the Red Cow Park and Ride than it will be to go to Limerick for anyone living on the Southside, in fact if there is a match in Thomond Park it will be faster to go to the Red Cow and come back to Cork again, the Motorway for Limerick can't come quickly enough, I don't care what bit they do first as long as they start doing it!

paul1991

Did anybody else notice three cameras that have been erected just after junction 4 on the m20 heading towards the city. What are they for, are they speed cameras?

The Word Is Bor

3 cameras on one small over head gantry? They could be ANPR camera which the NRA have previously, and currently are used to form a sort of Origin-Destination matrix in/around the M50. The cameras are on the main arteries to/from the M50 are used to develop a matrix of where vehicles are coming from and where they are going.

Of course the more data conscious of us might suggest that these could be used for a more nefarious purpose. I wonder do these come under the remit of the data protection act?

The Word Is Bor

Forgot to mention that the Oral Hearing for the M20 and the N21 Adare Bypass is due to get underway on July 7th in the Charleville Park Hotel for anyone that it is interested.

Sponge Bob

The Word Is Bor wrote: »

Forgot to mention that the Oral Hearing for the M20 and the N21 Adare Bypass is due to get underway on July 7th in the Charleville Park Hotel for anyone that it is interested.

And Peter Sweetman will be there if any of you want to meet him

cjpm

Battle for survival over link to motorway

Friday, July 02, 2010
The future of a Cork town may depend on a link to the M20, writes Sean O’Riordan

A BATTLE royale is set to commence next week as a community tries to overturn a decision by the NRA which could seriously damage the future growth of a north Cork town.

The people of Buttevant were delighted to hear their town was to be bypassed by the new M20— the Cork-Limerick motorway.

But shock and anger soon crept in when the NRA revealed it was not prepared to build a link road from Buttevant to the new highway.

All other towns along the 80km route will have slip road connections and even far smaller communities in Grenagh and Rathduff will have better access to the motorway.

The nearest direct links to the motorway are at Charleville and Mallow, both of which are around 10km from Buttevant.

However, the objective of the County Development Plan is to reverse the decline in the town so that "its population base and employment capacity will be strengthened in the future".

The development plan also highlights "an objective to recognise its important strategic position on the Atlantic Corridor and the importance of having high quality links to the national primary route network".

That’s what Cork County Council planners proposed — but the NRA, it has emerged, doesn’t agree.

Buttevant Community Council has now employed some big guns to take on the NRA at a Bord Pleanála oral hearing into the motorway. The oral hearing is due to get under way next Wednesday at the Charleville Park Hotel.

Local solicitor Matt Nagle, chairing a group of objectors, said Tom Hally of McCutcheon Mulcahy consultants will tell the hearing the omission of a link would have a very detrimental effect on the town.

"We are acutely aware of the benefits of having the town bypassed. But not having a link to the motorway will be disastrous. The NRA is basing its decision on current traffic patterns and not what will be required in the future. The future growth of the town will be totally disadvantaged if this decision is not reversed," Mr Nagle said.

Auctioneer Tom Sheahan, a former mayor of Cork county, said locals would be delighted the vast majority of the 12,000 vehicles passing through the town on a daily basis would soon be using the motorway.

The population of Buttevant is currently just over 900. The County Development Plan, however, envisages it will reach more than 1,500 by 2020.

He said attracting people to live in Buttevant would be far more difficult without a motorway connection.

Also, the town is desperately crying out for new jobs which, Mr Sheahan says, are unlikely to be created if the link isn’t there.

"In the early 1980s Buttevant Concrete closed with the loss of 120 jobs. Ballybeg Quarries, which once employed up to 90 people, closed last year. The largest employer in the town is now Greenhall Motors, which has 18 staff," Mr Sheahan said.

The county council has ensured a lot of infrastructure has been put into the town to aid regeneration.

Millions of euro has been spent in the last five years on upgrading water, sewage and broadband services, while an adequate amount of land has been zoned for housing and industrial development.

Mr Sheehan said the town had been bypassed by the Celtic Tiger but it had been hoped to reverse this trend. His wife, Lillian, is trying to promote Buttevant as a tourist destination to bolster the town’s economy.

Recently thousands of people attended a Red Bull-organised motorcross locally, which followed the exact route of the famous St Leger steeplechase, first run between Buttevant and Doneraile in 1752.

Ms Sheehan is now organising a medieval festival for the town, which was founded by a Norman family, the Barrys, in 1206.

"We have such a lot to offer and we’re hoping to capitalise on it. But if there is no connection to the motorway it will make it very difficult to attract in tour buses," Ms Sheehan said.

The NRA is probably delighted it won’t have to face the wrath of hell-raiser Oliver Reed. The actor, who died 11 years ago, was a regular in the town’s Welcome Inn pub. He lived in the nearby village of Churchtown which will also be put at a disadvantage with no connectivity to the motorway.

Lisa Fitzgerald, who runs the Welcome Inn with her mother Mary Jo, said they get a lot of passing traffic, especially on big GAA match days in Limerick and Cork.

"I can’t see these people coming into town any more. They would if we had a slip road. Mallow has two slip roads, and there’s even access to the villages of Mourneabbey and Grenagh. We will be the only town on the 80km route not to have a connection and I’m afraid it will put us back into the dark ages," Ms Fitzgerald said.

Nigel Doherty, who runs the town’s Centra supermarket, said there would be nothing to attract young couples to the town if the NRA succeeds.

"It won’t just be bad for Buttevant but for adjoining places like Doneraile, Liscarroll, Lisgriffen and Churchtown," he said.

Hardware store owner William Hutch recalled in the mid 1990s a plan had been drawn up to create a dual carriageway between Cork and Limerick which had a slip road directly connecting Buttevant. "It’s ridiculous what the NRA is doing," he said.

Gerry Kelly, principal of the 218-pupil Coláiste Mhuire secondary school, said the NRA was giving the town something with one hand and then taking it away with the other.

"Ballincollig, for example, has eastern and western slip roads whereas Buttevant is being totally bypassed traffic-wise as well as from a social and economic perspective," he said.

The principal said the campaign for a new secondary school was continuing, in line with the council’s plans to increase the population in the area.

Cork County VEC has acquired a site and is waiting for Department of Education approval to go to tender.

Cllr John Paul O’Shea (Ind) said the county council plan for the town was to see its population increase by 64% by 2020. "Strengthening the commercial and employment base of the town is essential to achieving this population growth," he said.

This story appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Friday, July 02, 2010

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.ie/ireland/battle-for-survival-over-link-to-motorway-123914.html#ixzz0sWDM6FiH

KerranJast

Buttevant is barely above a village. Talk of them expanding is crazy.

CerebralCortex

KerranJast wrote: »

Buttevant is barely above a village. Talk of them expanding is crazy.

Yes if people want a large town or city they should move to one.

Hogzy

WHat are they giving out about. Id say all in all about 10 cars a day from Buttevant would use the slip road. All they have to do is travel 10km in either direction for Cork or Limerick.
Jesus some people in this country and their sense of entitlement :rolleyes:

and LOL @ Lisa Fitzgerald who thinks that because there is no slip road people wont stop for food in The Welcome Inn. Surely if the journey time is cut to 1hr-45mins people wont be stopping for food anywhere.

KerranJast

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Yes if people want a large town or city they should move to one.

There are already 3 large towns within spitting distance of Buttevant which would take any increase in population in that side of the county.

invinciblePRSTV

Gerry Kelly, the school principal quoted, is an idiot. Making a comparison between Buttevant (pop. 1000 and 45 km from Cork) and Ballincollig (pop. 15000 and a suburb of Cork) to justify the town getting a link road to the M20 is ridiculous, he should be laughed out of the room.

The good burghers of Buttevant need to accept that the M20 isn't there to replace industry that closed in the town in the 1980s, as mentioned in the article, it's to link Cork & Limerick/Galway.

corktina

not so many years ago the residents of Buttevant got up a petition AGAINST a bypass....

they will have link roads to the M20...its called the N20 at the moment.

brainyneuron

corktina wrote: »

not so many years ago the residents of Buttevant got up a petition AGAINST a bypass....

Thats why macroom never got a bypass in the 80's/90's, the residents thought that their businesses would suffer, bet they regret that now! :rolleyes:

Sponge Bob

Buttevant is not Ballincollig , mind you Moate , pop 1500 got two exits off the N6 but then again one was to Cowens home town via a since dedeisgnated stretch of the N80 now an R Road.