M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

veryangryman

Isambard wrote: »

i agree and the prriority that could be quite cheaply done would be to extend the shuttles to Cork, with new intermediate stations and a service designed to connect in and out of the intercities. More direct Dublin to Limerick trains too would be a no-brainer.

No going to happen for decades though as we won't have any money for many years now.

Wouldnt have been done anyway in fairness. Rail isn't a priority for any government since formation of the state.

hans aus dtschl

In any case that's all a side-show: freight from Mallow, Charleville, etc needs to get to end-points (ports, cities, airports).

On the issue of the M20 being bad for commuter traffic, I've said before that I'd like to see a toll the M20 to try and encourage some of the current commuters onto a "Blarney" P&R. I think having the M20 fully up and running before introducing either a toll or P&R would be a mistake. Current commuters won't change and future commuters would be added.

For those that say that commuters won't pay it, I say look at the Watergrasshill toll. Some people certainly avoid it, but they're in the minority. The back roads can be traffic calmed and traffic-lighted.

Isambard

makes sense to have a P+R before an outer suburban toll. I suppose it depends of the P+R is more expensive than the Toll though, really needs to be free

serfboard

Isambard wrote: »

makes sense to have a P+R before an outer suburban toll. I suppose it depends of the P+R is more expensive than the Toll though, really needs to be free

There's an excellent example of this in Oranmore train station in Galway. There is free car parking for around a hundred cars and a seven minute train journey into the city, bypassing all the bottlenecks. It is so popular now that the cars are parking way out on the road and up on footpaths.

Obviously not ideal and I hope that it will be rectified, but it's actually a real measure of success.

Reputable Rog

serfboard wrote: »

There's an excellent example of this in Oranmore train station in Galway. There is free car parking for around a hundred cars and a seven minute train journey into the city, bypassing all the bottlenecks. It is so popular now that the cars are parking way out on the road and up on footpaths.

Obviously not ideal and I hope that it will be rectified, but it's actually a real measure of success.

Same in Little Island and Glouthaune.

Pale Red

The P+R on the M3 is after the toll. (train to Docklands or switch for Maynooth line at Clonsilla)

Bazzer007

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/m20-motorway-connecting-limerick-to-cork-not-guaranteed-if-green-party-enters-government/

This is what we'll have to contend with if the Greens form a Government with FG/FF.

Reputable Rog

I don’t think the Greens will go into government, at least not all of them.
Coveney is expressing alarm at the carbon reduction targets the Greens are demanding and I would see him as a weather vane on the opinion of FG members.

The Motorway will have to be built.
On an aside how bloody slow is this site?

JamesBond2010

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I don’t think the Greens will go into government, at least not all of them.
Coveney is expressing alarm at the carbon reduction targets the Greens are demanding and I would see him as a weather vane on the opinion of FG members.

The Motorway will have to be built.
On an aside how bloody slow is this site?

the site like that last few days very slow, it was even slower y/day. Must be servers issue

Sam Russell

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

the site like that last few days very slow, it was even slower y/day. Must be servers issue

Well, this thread has been going since 2008.

JamesBond2010

Sam Russell wrote: »

Well, this thread has been going since 2008.

i was responding to this issue telling him about this issue,
''Hi all, we apologise for the ongoing issues that are resulting in slow load times and unresponsive errors at times. We are working to get to the bottom of these issues. We understand that this is frustrating, but we thank you for your patience as we deal with this and we are sorry for the disruption''

Not slow responses

JamesBond2010

JamesBond2010 wrote: »

i was responding to this issue telling him about this issue,
''Hi all, we apologise for the ongoing issues that are resulting in slow load times and unresponsive errors at times. We are working to get to the bottom of these issues. We understand that this is frustrating, but we thank you for your patience as we deal with this and we are sorry for the disruption''

Not slow responses

Whooosh

JamesBond2010

Deleted User wrote: »

Whooosh

sites back to normal speed now

marno21

Possibly a bit odd to have a Green Party TD for Dublin Central on air talking about a motorway in the south of the country but the GP TD Nessa Hourigan was on Newstalk last week banging the M24 drum again.

Here's an article from the SBP at the weekend. 26km less road (54km vs 80km) but a 24 minute extra journey. An M24 journey would take 88 minutes vs 62 on the M20. With the added benefit of travelling 35km extra and burning extra fuel etc.

Bizarre that this continues despite evidence showing otherwise

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/green-partys-lower-cost-alternative-to-m20-is-slower-4980d95e

Cork Trucker

marno21 wrote: »

Possibly a bit odd to have a Green Party TD for Dublin Central on air talking about a motorway in the south of the country but the GP TD Nessa Hourigan was on Newstalk last week banging the M24 drum again.

Here's an article from the SBP at the weekend. 26km less road (54km vs 80km) but a 24 minute extra journey. An M24 journey would take 88 minutes vs 62 on the M20. With the added benefit of travelling 35km extra and burning extra fuel etc.

Bizarre that this continues despite evidence showing otherwise

https://www.businesspost.ie/ireland/green-partys-lower-cost-alternative-to-m20-is-slower-4980d95e

She’s originally a Limerick lass. My worry is what will happen if they are in government. Canning the M20 is surely one of their 17 demands

Aontachtoir

Cork Trucker wrote: »

She’s originally a Limerick lass. My worry is what will happen if they are in government. Canning the M20 is surely one of their 17 demands

I don't think FF or FG would be willing to let them get away with that. They've got their commitment for 7% carbon cuts, so give us the M20 in exchange.

Cork Trucker

Aontachtoir wrote: »

I don't think FF or FG would be willing to let them get away with that. They've got their commitment for 7% carbon cuts, so give us the M20 in exchange.

I agree, however the power is literally in the hands of the Greens. Martin will take it up the backside just to be Taoiseach and will agree to anything. This will end badly for FF/FG but the Greens face another electoral wipe out

prunudo

I don't understand how a party that advocates a greener climate thinks that spending a further 35km travelling is better. (Edited the 24 min figure as time will vary depending on vehicle type).
And thats before the fact that all the towns along the n20 will have to be bypassed anyway.
Sending intercity commercial traffic through rural villages isn't the longterm answer.

kippy

prunudo wrote: »

I don't understand how a party that advocates a greener climate thinks that spending a further 35km travelling is better. (Edited the 24 min figure as time will vary depending on vehicle type).
And thats before the fact that all the towns along the n20 will have to be bypassed anyway.
Sending intercity commercial traffic through rural villages isn't the longterm answer.

These roads can also be used by electric vehicles of all types in future so it's not just a short term solution for ICE vehicles.

prunudo

kippy wrote: »

These roads can also be used by electric vehicles of all types in future so it's not just a short term solution for ICE vehicles.

Regardless of energy source they'll be consuming 50% more going the m24.

lawrencesummers

prunudo wrote: »

I don't understand how a party that advocates a greener climate thinks that spending a further 35km travelling is better. (Edited the 24 min figure as time will vary depending on vehicle type).
And thats before the fact that all the towns along the n20 will have to be bypassed anyway.
Sending intercity commercial traffic through rural villages isn't the longterm answer.

If the greens could dictate then all money would be spent on public transport, which is entirely reasonable, Because travelling on public transport is viable for all roads users, every salesrep can get the bus, aldi and Lidl can get an post to deliver to their stores, and paramedics can cycle to their destinations.

lawred2

prunudo wrote: »

I don't understand how a party that advocates a greener climate thinks that spending a further 35km travelling is better. (Edited the 24 min figure as time will vary depending on vehicle type).
And thats before the fact that all the towns along the n20 will have to be bypassed anyway.
Sending intercity commercial traffic through rural villages isn't the longterm answer.

I don't know enough about this so forgive the question;

Is there something less destructive about this suggested longer route that involves less construction or has less environmental impact during its construction?

snotboogie

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't know enough about this so forgive the question;

Is there something less destructive about this suggested longer route that involves less construction or has less environmental impact during its construction?

I don't think so. It's been a long time contrarian point whenever the M20 is discussed, is usually presented as a common sense alternative and is never properly argued against (see any time this is discussed on Matt Cooper). For some bizarre reason the Greens have jumped on it. maybe because the M24 is slightly shorter than the M20? Laura Bogue and Oliver Moran looked particularly ridiculous advocating for the M24 in the last GE, non locals running in Cork calling for the biggest infrastructure project in the region in two decades to be directed away from Cork.

Cookiemunster

lawred2 wrote: »

I don't know enough about this so forgive the question;

Is there something less destructive about this suggested longer route that involves less construction or has less environmental impact during its construction?

Even if any of that were true, it's a false economy because the N20 will need to be upgraded anyway and the towns along it bypassed. Which bizarrely the Greens acknowledged during the election campaign.

lawred2

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Even if any of that were true, it's a false economy because the N20 will need to be upgraded anyway and the towns along it bypassed. Which bizarrely the Greens acknowledged during the election campaign.

Don't understand it so...

Drove that god awful road so many many times... glad I rarely have the displeasure these days..

That road was a disgrace a quarter of century ago.

In the meanwhile we've had countless roads built in Mayo.

Bazzer007

A coalition is looking more likely. I know Patrick O'Donovan is a big supporter of the m20 & I hope he can influence his party to ensure the m20 is a redline issue. I'm not sure if Covney, Creed, McGrath & Martin are pushing as hard. A 7% emissions reduction seems to be the main issue. It would be extremely difficult to do this unless you reduce the national herd, however this is only possible with CAP reform through targeted initiatives.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/varadkar-faces-calls-to-protect-roads-in-talks-with-greens-39184118.html

Leonard Hofstadter

Good to see this, at least some in Fine Gael understand that life doesn't begin and end within the Pale. Still not optimistic though, Leo and Mícheál have already signed up to the 7% reduction, although it does say 'on average' so hopefully there is a bit of wriggle room there. My worry is that already they've conceded so much, and I doubt whatever they will cobble together can be accepted by the membership of the three parties. Modern GP supporters are openly hostile towards FF and FG, sure look there is even plenty of opposition within those parties about a deal with the 'old enemy', and that's nothing compared to their thoughts on the Greens.

Reputable Rog

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardai-planning-ring-of-steel-around-to-cork-town-to-prevent-horse-fair-998828.html

A bit of respite this year. Hard to believe this is still actually a thing having read this article.

lawrencesummers

Reputable Rog wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/gardai-planning-ring-of-steel-around-to-cork-town-to-prevent-horse-fair-998828.html

A bit of respite this year. Hard to believe this is still actually a thing having read this article.

I think it should be allowed go ahead.
Culture and all that.

Isambard

they'll just go somewhere else.