M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

BelfastVanMan

Isambard wrote: »

they'll just go somewhere else.

And hopefully, they'll be stopped there, too.

Why should they get special treatment, when the rest of us have to abide by what are by-and-large, pretty sensible rules to stop the spread of Corona?

Mc Love

They should go to a field close to the town - Closing off the N20 and forcing everyone to use L roads as a diversion is utterly insane

lawrencesummers

Mc Love wrote: »

They should go to a field close to the town - Closing off the N20 and forcing everyone to use L roads as a diversion is utterly insane

Under normal circumstances they should be allowed to use the town, like puck fair, Patrick’s day, pride marches etc etc that shut down towns Or areas in towns for traditional cultural events.

It’s not the attendees fault that the road from Cork to Limerick is grossly over used and under developed, and they shouldn’t be punished for it, But no event of this scale should be allowed to go ahead without an organising committee, licences, traffic plans, clean up plans, policing plans, security, toilet facilities, parking facilities, medical cover etc etc.

Cookiemunster

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Under normal circumstances they should be allowed to use the town, like puck fair, Patrick’s day, pride marches etc etc that shut down towns Or areas in towns for traditional cultural events.

It’s not the attendees fault that the road from Cork to Limerick is grossly over used and under developed, and they shouldn’t be punished for it, But no event of this scale should be allowed to go ahead without an organising committee, licences, traffic plans, clean up plans, policing plans, security, toilet facilities, parking facilities, medical cover etc etc.

No event of this scale should be allowed to happen on a national primary road, full stop. I don't care if it's the main street of a town or that is should have been bypassed. Until it is bypassed it should be happening somewhere else. National primary routes are for moving traffic, not for selling horses.

And I think you'll find that Killorglin isn't on an important national primary route and the Particks day or pride parades don't shut the roads down for a week.

Mc Love

If it is to be used on the N20 - it should take place at the weekend and not during the week like it normally is. One Summer I experienced it and it was ridiculous to have Artic's and buses using the L/R road diversions.

lawrencesummers

Cookiemunster wrote: »

No event of this scale should be allowed to happen on a national primary road, full stop. I don't care if it's the main street of a town or that is should have been bypassed. Until it is bypassed it should be happening somewhere else. National primary routes are for moving traffic, not for selling horses.

And I think you'll find that Killorglin isn't on an important national primary route and the Particks day or pride parades don't shut the roads down for a week.

I think you will find that Killorglin may not be on an important road for you but it is on a National Primary Road the N72 which is a massive part of the tourist infrastructure in Kerry, and important to a hell of a lot of people.

Have you ever been to Galway for race week? The ring of Kerry cycle? The Rose of Tralee? The national Ploughing championships?

They all involve severe traffic restrictions in towns, cities and of N roads. The only difference is that they are properly organised, have plans in place for both the people in attendance and those that are effected but not involved.

Im not going to go as far as to say your stance is anti traveler, but this has a tradition of almost 100 years so it has every right to be held, but the people in the area and other users of the road have a right for it to be organised properly, which it is not.

hans aus dtschl

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I think you will find that Killorglin may not be on an important road for you but it is on a National Primary Road the N72 which is a massive part of the tourist infrastructure in Kerry, and important to a hell of a lot of people.

Have you ever been to Galway for race week? The ring of Kerry cycle? The Rose of Tralee? The national Ploughing championships?

They all involve severe traffic restrictions in towns, cities and of N roads. The only difference is that they are properly organised, have plans in place for both the people in attendance and those that are effected but not involved.

Im not going to go as far as to say your stance is anti traveler, but this has a tradition of almost 100 years so it has every right to be held, but the people in the area and other users of the road have a right for it to be organised properly, which it is not.

Yep the issues are with organisation and infrastructure.

Through-traffic is not the very highest of all priorities, even though us infrastructure nerds rate it very highly! Your previous post sums it up for me.

hans aus dtschl

Mc Love wrote: »

If it is to be used on the N20 - it should take place at the weekend and not during the week like it normally is. One Summer I experienced it and it was ridiculous to have Artic's and buses using the L/R road diversions.

Yeah I've been through there early in the morning-after-the-night-before too and it was like driving through a warzone. It's crazy that it's the primary route between the second and third largest cities in the state.

lawrencesummers

I’ve had the Experience of being stuck in buttevant heading for Shannon airport and almost missing a flight because of this fair, another time I came around a bend about three miles outside the town and almost hit a badly parked car that was left over from the fair that had ended a number of days before.

The fair shouldn’t be allowed to go ahead because no gathering of people and animals should be allowed without proper plans, not because It’s location is an inconvenience to people, if that was the case no festival, match, concert etc etc would take place

Isambard

it's almost impossible to stop an event that isn't formally organised. If word goes round they'll decant to Ballyhea or Twopothouse or somewhere. In my view they should be encouraged to go back to Caher Mee itself where it came from.

Isambard

lawrencesummers wrote: »

I’ve had the Experience of being stuck in buttevant heading for Shannon airport and almost missing a flight because of this fair, another time I came around a bend about three miles outside the town and almost hit a badly parked car that was left over from the fair that had ended a number of days before.

The fair shouldn’t be allowed to go ahead because no gathering of people and animals should be allowed without proper plans, not because It’s location is an inconvenience to people, if that was the case no festival, match, concert etc etc would take place

In fairness, for more years than I can count, there has been a signposted diversion

lawrencesummers

Isambard wrote: »

it's almost impossible to stop an event that isn't formally organised. If word goes round they'll decant to Ballyhea or Twopothouse or somewhere. In my view they should be encouraged to go back to Caher Mee itself where it came from.

It may well be difficult to stop, but the Gardaí should be doing their job and enforcing the laws of the land with regards alcohol, public order, animal welfare, littering, road traffic etc etc.

There should be an organising committee put in place, but that would be difficult because you would be asking people to be an authority over what are essential many illegal or unethical activities.


Anyway this isn’t the thread to discuss such.

Sam Russell

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Anyway this isn’t the thread to discuss such.

Mod: Exactly.

Cork Trucker

Public consultation later this year

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Public-consultation-on-NM20-Cork-to-Limerick-Road-set-for-later-this-year-53d4b81d-2622-46a9-85e2-fb9624ce33f9-ds

Reputable Rog

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Public consultation later this year

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Public-consultation-on-NM20-Cork-to-Limerick-Road-set-for-later-this-year-53d4b81d-2622-46a9-85e2-fb9624ce33f9-ds

Hopefully a new rail corridor will be included. Would love a direct train from Cork to Limerick and onto Galway.

serfboard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Hopefully a new rail corridor will be included. Would love a direct train from Cork to Limerick and onto Galway.

You are aware that the Limerick->Galway train takes two hours? So how long do you think a Cork->Galway train journey would take?

By comparison, Citylink are already doing a Cork->Galway nonstop service (currently Fridays and Sundays only) that takes two and half hours - and that's without the motorway.

Reputable Rog

serfboard wrote: »

You are aware that the Limerick->Galway train takes two hours? So how long do you think a Cork->Galway train journey would take?

By comparison, Citylink are already doing a Cork->Galway nonstop service (currently Fridays and Sundays only) that takes two and half hours - and that's without the motorway.

I am aware but with investment that can improved on. 2.5 hours at what time of day?

Leonard Hofstadter

How much will it cost?

It actually would be a good idea for trains to go directly from Charleville to Limerick and not take the long and windy route via Limerick Junction, as is the case right now - so long as they do the motorway first.

Bass Reeves

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I am aware but with investment that can improved on. 2.5 hours at what time of day?

no it cannot unless you build new direct railway lines. The Ennis to Athenry cost over 100 million and the line was only put in place, as well as being about 15 years ago. All lands and planning were in place. To reduce the time on rail from Cork to Galway you would have to put in place all new infrastructure. At that if the M20 motorway was in place the time saving would be marginal and that is from city center to city center.

The green agenda has a fascination with rail as a public transport system. It is not compatible with the population spread in Ireland.

SeanW

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The green agenda has a fascination with rail as a public transport system. It is not compatible with the population spread in Ireland.

That might have been true 30-odd years ago, but Ireland is densify-ing around cities. Pre-pandemic, if you tried getting into Dublin City Centre before 9AM on any of the heavy railway lines or either of the Luas lines, you would find out very quickly that "population spread" is not an issue.

As to Cork, while a new high speed railway to Limerick and Galway might be a questionable idea, a Cork city railway system would be a very good idea. Electrification of its suburban heavy railway network, a Cork Luas, all would be most useful. But for now, Cork needs motorways to connect it to the regions, starting with the M20.

Reputable Rog

Bass Reeves wrote: »

no it cannot unless you build new direct railway lines. The Ennis to Athenry cost over 100 million and the line was only put in place, as well as being about 15 years ago. All lands and planning were in place. To reduce the time on rail from Cork to Galway you would have to put in place all new infrastructure. At that if the M20 motorway was in place the time saving would be marginal and that is from city center to city center.

The green agenda has a fascination with rail as a public transport system. It is not compatible with the population spread in Ireland.

I don’t have a green agenda, I’m an advocate fir both the M20 and rail improvements. I think they’re both necessary.

Isambard

as far as rail investment goes, it is suburban lines that are the priority, followed by InterCity. A single track line that goes through a largely empty countryside shouldn't even be discussed.

I can never understand why the Charleville to Limerick direct line gets such support. It would make more sense to me to develop all the services through Limerick Junction and improve interchangability there. A Cork to Limerick through service could be part of that.

hans aus dtschl

Even from a Cork perspective, there are more urgent rail projects awaiting funding than the Cork-Limerick connection.
Kilbarry/Blackpool Station, Passing loop in Kent Station, Dunkettle P&R for instance.
Soon Carrigtohill West and Water Rock will also be high priority.

I'm sure there's a lot of other deserving rail projects around the country waiting for funding too.

Purchasing the corridor for Charleville to Patrickswell during the M20 CPO might be nice, but I've no feel for how expensive of feasible that would be. And if rail ever did become a possibility, you'd have to resolve significant issues around how the M20 and rail line interact at junctions.

hans aus dtschl

Isambard wrote: »

as far as rail investment goes, it is suburban lines that are the priority, followed by InterCity. A single track line that goes through a largely empty countryside shouldn't even be discussed.

I can never understand why the Charleville to Limerick direct line gets such support. It would make more sense to me to develop all the services through Limerick Junction and improve interchangability there. A Cork to Limerick through service could be part of that.

I've been stranded at Limerick Junction more than once. I understand why people might be anxious to avoid the...experience...

Mc Love

Bass Reeves wrote: »

no it cannot unless you build new direct railway lines. The Ennis to Athenry cost over 100 million and the line was only put in place, as well as being about 15 years ago. All lands and planning were in place. To reduce the time on rail from Cork to Galway you would have to put in place all new infrastructure. At that if the M20 motorway was in place the time saving would be marginal and that is from city center to city center.

The green agenda has a fascination with rail as a public transport system. It is not compatible with the population spread in Ireland.

If I had a choice I'd rather take the train to Cork or Dublin if I was visiting the city center but the car is king at the moment in terms of time it takes to get there. The line is still in place in some parts - it is doable and it isnt a green agenda. PT should be king in the country and it once was.

Mc Love

Isambard wrote: »

as far as rail investment goes, it is suburban lines that are the priority, followed by InterCity. A single track line that goes through a largely empty countryside shouldn't even be discussed.

I can never understand why the Charleville to Limerick direct line gets such support. It would make more sense to me to develop all the services through Limerick Junction and improve interchangability there. A Cork to Limerick through service could be part of that.

That's like saying I dont understand why they are building the M20 when they could easily go via the M8 and improve the interchangability there.

Isambard

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I've been stranded at Limerick Junction more than once. I understand why people might be anxious to avoid the...experience...

which bit of "improve the interchangability" passed you by? (They've already built a new platform.)

Isambard

Mc Love wrote: »

That's like saying I dont understand why they are building the M20 when they could easily go via the M8 and improve the interchangability there.

it's a good quip but short on reality seeing as the line is already there and needs no building.

betistuc

Whenever railways are discussed, I'm always reminded of the Percy French song, "Are you right there Michael". It should be
Irish Rail's anthem.

Bass Reeves

Mc Love wrote: »

If I had a choice I'd rather take the train to Cork or Dublin if I was visiting the city center but the car is king at the moment in terms of time it takes to get there. The line is still in place in some parts - it is doable and it isnt a green agenda. PT should be king in the country and it once was.

Yes if we all had the choice we would travel by train,...........but you then ask yourself why do more people travel to Dublin by Bus than by train.

I have a friend that WFH, he goes from a village outside Limerick to Dublin once a week. He is up at 5.30, drives into the station, grabs a coffee and onto the train arrives in Dublin's n around 9 I think and gets a taxi to the office he is going to(it would be two bus public transport journeys otherwise. He arrives in the office at about 9.30 and stays for the day and grabs a coffee taxi agsin in the evening to get to the railway station.

Now all grand and hunkey dorey his employer picks up his taxi and train fares. But he admits that if the office was.near the M50 he end up driving.