M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

KELTICKNIGHTT

ongarboy wrote: »

Ok but you're using a bad road with dangerous bends and many poor overtaking opportunities every week. If you had a continuous motorway from Cork to Cahir and then onwards to Limerick where you could cruise at 120kph uninterrupted for the entire journey, how much worse would it be journey time or travel experience wise? Would goods trucks still get between the two cities faster using the dangerous old N20 than using this alternative continuous motorway proposal?

I'm all for the more direct M20 proposal too but how much worse or longer would the journey be with this alternative proposal? If 100s of millions of taxpayers money can be saved by just adding some (please quantify how much) additional journey time, it's surely worth
putting on the table for consideration at least? Just saying it's brainless or stupid without quantifying exactly why doesn't help explain.

Why would any traffic that use n20 daily from cork city to Limerick which some do multi drops on way go 70 Kms in wrong direction towards cahir. That's defy logic.
If you check Google maps even for traffic for cork city to Limerick city by going 77 Kms towards cahir. To link up with with n24 makes no sense . would cost more in fuel even if it was M24.

The most cost effective is direct from cork city to Limerick city.the maths even says this.
Only reason people here want this M24 is People who use n24.
That's doesn't work for people who use n20 every day and me.

Dunmoreroader

Isambard wrote: »

as often pointed out, the N20 traffic is mainly from the hinterland into one or other of the cities.
It still needs to be catered for by bypassing or improving the bad bits (ie most of it) and once you've done the improvements, then there would be no reason at all for the end to end traffic to go via Cahir .

I always thought Motorways were to connect major population centres and/or ports, airports etc. NOT to encourage/facilitate commuter traffic/ dormer town proliferation.
If my assumption is right and that is what they are for, an M24 from Limerick to Rosslare via Cahir & Waterford connects Cork city (2nd) + port & airport, Limerick city (3rd) + Shannon & Foynes, Galway city (4th), Waterford city (5th) + Bellview/Port of Waterford and Rosslare Europort.
A billion on an M20 to get commuters into Cork & Limerick quicker just repeats the mistakes made around Dublin over the past 30/40 years facilitating dormer living 30, 40, 50 miles from your place of work, school etc. No off-ramps for small towns/villages.

hans aus dtschl

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I always thought Motorways were to connect major population centres and/or ports, airports etc. NOT to encourage/facilitate commuter traffic/ dormer town proliferation.
If my assumption is right and that is what they are for, an M24 from Limerick to Rosslare via Cahir & Waterford connects Cork city (2nd) + port & airport, Limerick city (3rd) + Shannon & Foynes, Galway city (4th), Waterford city (5th) + Bellview/Port of Waterford and Rosslare Europort.
A billion on an M20 to get commuters into Cork & Limerick quicker just repeats the mistakes made around Dublin over the past 30/40 years facilitating dormer living 30, 40, 50 miles from your place of work, school etc. No off-ramps for small towns/villages.

M24 in no way whatsoever connects Cork to Waterford/Rosslare, nor Cork to Limerick. Nobody drives that journey at present. We already have a motorway from Cork to Limerick, via Portlaoise, by your logic.

What do you propose we do about the N20, once the M24 is done?
Leave the traffic levels remain at above the road design limit forever?
Accordingly, leave people to die on it at the current high rates?

What, it's their fault for not living in a well-connected urban area, so they should have unsafe infrastructure?
Instead we should do another M17/M18 effort, and try and design a pristine low-traffic motorway away from all urban areas?

I'm not sure what exactly you're saying about no off-ramps for small towns/villages, but the plan is for Mallow, Buttevant and Charleville to be connected. IMO tolling and P&R at/near Blarney should be part of the M20 design, to discourage car commuting. There won't be a similar issue on the Limerick side because Charleville to Limerick is already reasonably high quality.

hans aus dtschl

I can't believe that I, of all people, am defending a new road, but here we are.
The Cork-Limerick corridor is a reasonably productive area in terms of jobs and wealth creation. A Cork-Limerick axis is the only viable counterbalance to Dublin (if there even IS a viable counterbalance to Dublin!).

Cork is the second biggest urban area in the country.

So what is this M24 proposal? Let's talk through it slowly...
Create a third motorway from Limerick, connecting it to an even smaller urban area.
Send Cork to Waterford traffic on a long detour.
Send Cork to Limerick traffic on a long detour.
Ignore the over-capacity M8 and particularly the Dunkettle Interchange.
Ignore the over-capacity N20 and particularly the 80% of traffic on it at present.
Ignore the North-West of Cork City in terms of connectivity.

This does not look like a sensible way to discourage car commuters from Mallow and Charleville.
Upgrade the rail service. Toll the road. Build P&R's and heavily subsidise them. Reduce city centre parking. Remove motor priority on city centre roads. Improve sustainable transport connectivity on city centre roads. Invest in Mallow and Charleville so that people don't need to leave, for jobs.

Isambard

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I always thought Motorways were to connect major population centres and/or ports, airports etc. NOT to encourage/facilitate commuter traffic/ dormer town proliferation.
If my assumption is right and that is what they are for, an M24 from Limerick to Rosslare via Cahir & Waterford connects Cork city (2nd) + port & airport, Limerick city (3rd) + Shannon & Foynes, Galway city (4th), Waterford city (5th) + Bellview/Port of Waterford and Rosslare Europort.
A billion on an M20 to get commuters into Cork & Limerick quicker just repeats the mistakes made around Dublin over the past 30/40 years facilitating dormer living 30, 40, 50 miles from your place of work, school etc. No off-ramps for small towns/villages.

well, you always thought wrong.

The bulk of the traffic on the overloaded and dangerous N20 travels to and from the the two cities. It makes no sense to try and route what end to end traffic there is via Cahir. Most of it will still take the N20, which is much shorter, and which will have to be improved anyway.


Anyway ,please read the Moderators note above, this thread is not for promoting the N24 corridor.

Now you're saying that Cork traffic for Foynes should go via Cahir?

marno21

Apologies, I did not explicitly provide a direction yesterday, but here it is. This thread is for discussing the current plan to build a motorway between Cork and Limerick via the existing N20 corridor. The plans for this can be seen in detail at corklimerick.ie.

One of the key terms of reference for the project is to “Address the deficiencies of the existing N20 route.” This is not feasible by building a motorway around Tipperary Town.

As I said previously, if there’s evidence of the M20 being scrapped and replaced with an M24, my DMs are open. Until then, this is for the N20 route upgrade and the merits of the N24 upgrade can be debated in the N24 thread(s).

hans aus dtschl has provided a wonderful summary of the debate above

Red Silurian

Beggars belief but there's actually a group out there who oppose this road, farmers and teachers mainly it would seem

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40248434.html

spring lane jack

Red Silurian wrote: »

Beggars belief but there's actually a group out there who oppose this road, farmers and teachers mainly it would seem

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40248434.html

Sadly it beggers no belief as this country is stuffed full of people who are against any progress. This idiotic idea of an M24 alternative ignores the fact that both Cork and Limerick already have entry/exit routes built N20 to Blarney/M20 to Patrickswell. The alternative would just clog up Dunkettle and the N24/M7 junction.

Sam Russell

Red Silurian wrote: »

Beggars belief but there's actually a group out there who oppose this road, farmers and teachers mainly it would seem

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40248434.html

That article is full of unsubstantiated claims.

Objectors to the M20 are varied and from all walks of life. They say adults and children with autism and sensory issues will no longer be able to enjoy the therapeutic effects of a horse-riding school, one farm will become “unviable” after being cut in four; it will run just 50m from another farmhouse, and two school principals have also raised concerns for their charges.

How can a farm be cut in four when the route is yet to be decided? How can children be effected by a motorway that has yet to be designed? What could be the point of raising the point about the autism of children who go pony riding?

It is full of populist nonsense - how could building a motorway to Cahir cause less problems than building the required one to Cork?

I despair of the quality of journalism found in Cork.

Bass Reeves

spring lane jack wrote: »

Sadly it beggers no belief as this country is stuffed full of people who are against any progress. This idiotic idea of an M24 alternative ignores the fact that both Cork and Limerick already have entry/exit routes built N20 to Blarney/M20 to Patrickswell. The alternative would just clog up Dunkettle and the N24/M7 junction.

If we want to build a counter axis to Dunk n in this country this piece of infrastructure is critical. You would have two airports, two ports three Universities and 4-5 IT's s well as a population base of over a million along the route. The time from the two ends Galway and Cork would be less than an hour and thirty minutes.
The college's are all technology based as is UL. It would give huge choice especially with the ability to work from home 3-4 days a week.

KELTICKNIGHTT

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

I always thought Motorways were to connect major population centres and/or ports, airports etc. NOT to encourage/facilitate commuter traffic/ dormer town proliferation.
If my assumption is right and that is what they are for, an M24 from Limerick to Rosslare via Cahir & Waterford connects Cork city (2nd) + port & airport, Limerick city (3rd) + Shannon & Foynes, Galway city (4th), Waterford city (5th) + Bellview/Port of Waterford and Rosslare Europort.
A billion on an M20 to get commuters into Cork & Limerick quicker just repeats the mistakes made around Dublin over the past 30/40 years facilitating dormer living 30, 40, 50 miles from your place of work, school etc. No off-ramps for small towns/villages.

How is it better with n24 going to M24 supporting traffic from cork city to Limerick city by going 77 Kms out of there way in opposite direction.
How does it help n20 daily traffic.
It doesn't and won't in any respect.
The upgrade to M20 motorway is not only about traffic. Do you get that.

M24 only supports people around n24 and no one else.

As admin says .your in wrong thread .this is about M20 motorway only. Not interested in n24 in any way as don't use and won't use even if M24 is its in wrong direction !!!!

Harry Palmr

What's the plan for traffic using "M20" when it reaches north Cork city? Does the current relief road cut the mustard bearing in mind most of the heavy traffic wants to head to south and east of city?

KrisW1001

The N40 Cork North Ring Road project was supposed to be developed in conjunction with this. There's some hope that the North-Eastern segment of that project (from N20 around to M8) will be built as part of this project - it was the cheaper part of the scheme, with much less difficult terrain.

Isambard

Harry Palmr wrote: »

What's the plan for traffic using "M20" when it reaches north Cork city? Does the current relief road cut the mustard bearing in mind most of the heavy traffic wants to head to south and east of city?

It will meet the current road near Blarney. In time we'd hope to see a new NRR over to the M8/Jack lynch tunnel/ N40 SRR. In theory a western arm of this will be needed to Ballincollig but I can't see that happening in my lifetime.

AugustusMinimus

Isambard wrote: »

It will meet the current road near Blarney. In time we'd hope to see a new NRR over to the M8/Jack lynch tunnel/ N40 SRR. In theory a western arm of this will be needed to Ballincollig but I can't see that happening in my lifetime.

I’m not a young man but I live in hope.

Reputable Rog

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40250441.html

Can’t believe they now want people to pay to read the nonsense they spout.
40 km from Limerick to Cahir? I estimate a minimum of 60km.
I’d love to know what ‘De Papur’s’ agenda is.

Sam Russell

Reputable Rog wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40250441.html

Can’t believe they now want people to pay to read the nonsense they spout.
40 km from Limerick to Cahir? I estimate a minimum of 60km.
I’d love to know what ‘De Papur’s’ agenda is.

De Papur's agenda is the same as all similar papers - click bait. Populist nonsense.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40250441.html

Can’t believe they now want people to pay to read the nonsense they spout.
40 km from Limerick to Cahir? I estimate a minimum of 60km.
I’d love to know what ‘De Papur’s’ agenda is.

um, the article is about the project manager supporting the direct link.

“The M24 is not the solution. We've modelled it. No one will take that option [travelling to and from Cork on it via the M8]. It will take about 25 minutes longer,” Mr Howard said.

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

um, the article is about the project manager supporting the direct link.

“The M24 is not the solution. We've modelled it. No one will take that option [travelling to and from Cork on it via the M8]. It will take about 25 minutes longer,” Mr Howard said.

I’m not criticising the project manager I on about O’Riordan continuously spouting nonsense.

Isambard

ah right, I'd say it's an estimation of the "M24" from the M8 to the M7 and probably got a bit confused with the whole route being 40 km longer.

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

ah right, I'd say it's an estimation of the "M24" from the M8 to the M7 and probably got a bit confused with the whole route being 40 km longer.

He’s a complete hack, everything he writes is sensationalist nonsense.
He claimed in an article that zoned land had flooded in Carrigtwohill contrary to an SFRA carried out for the Council when in fact it hadn’t and the SFRA was correct, he just listens to the local loud mouth down the pub and quotes it as fact.

Limerick74

Well someone along the route is definitely having his voice heard https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/lobby-group-claims-m20-consultation-process-is-discriminatory/

rebs23

Limerick74 wrote: »

Well someone along the route is definitely having his voice heard https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/lobby-group-claims-m20-consultation-process-is-discriminatory/

Does anyone know who this "group" are? Who are they claiming to represent? Self appointed? Can't understand why anyone would give them coverage.

Cork Trucker

One thing is for sure, NIMBYism is alive and well

DumbBrunette

Not sure if this was noticed previously, but the Cahir to Limerick Junction project on the N24 is to be built as motorway, according to March update from TII linked below.

https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/projects-and-improvements/Major-Active-Projects-March_FinalC.pdf

Are traffic levels high enough to justify this, or is TII thinking ahead in case the M20 project gets blocked or delayed?

The N24 east of Cahir is still listed as an expressway (2+2).

KELTICKNIGHTT

DumbBrunette wrote: »

Not sure if this was noticed previously, but the Cahir to Limerick Junction project on the N24 is to be built as motorway, according to March update from TII linked below.

https://www.tii.ie/roads-tolling/projects-and-improvements/Major-Active-Projects-March_FinalC.pdf

Are traffic levels high enough to justify this, or is TII thinking ahead in case the M20 project gets blocked or delayed?

The N24 east of Cahir is still listed as an expressway (2+2).

Cahir to Waterford is . Limerick to cahir isn't yet.
Cahir to Waterford will cost 600m to 720m ,wow
Looks like all projects will go ahead .
M24 and M20 don't have time frame starts .
M20 will go ahead looks like.

alias no.9

rebs23 wrote: »

Does anyone know who this "group" are? Who are they claiming to represent? Self appointed? Can't understand why anyone would give them coverage.

They're not being heard because they keep attempting to answer a question that is not being asked. I just don't know how they're getting the oxygen of publicity from.

marno21

Latest:

corklimerick.ie wrote:

Following the recent public consultation over winter 2020/21 on the shortlisted options for the N/M20 project, a number of environmental surveys will be conducted within the study area in the period April-May 2021.

These surveys will, in the main, relate to ecological and archaeological walkover examinations of sites of interest. The surveys will gather information which will assist in the assessment of the shortlisted options and ensure that environmental issues are adequately addressed in the assessment process.

If you have any queries, please contact the project office at info@corklimerick.ie or telephone (061) 973730.

Limerick74

https://www.live95fm.ie/news/live95-news/further-public-consultation-set-to-take-place-on-controversial-road-project/

Limerick74

The alternative cork limerick routes just keep getting rehashed. I thought this argument was put to bed last year. The examiner seems to have something against the project for some reason. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40282028.html