M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

Isambard

If it's not the N20 Plaza then it must be the former petrol station south of it, quite a lot of land there.

kub

I don't know if this has already been discussed on this forum but I have come across the below on The Evening Echo.

Quite obviously this says it all about the existing N20 and the safety of same :

The proportion of fatal collisions to all personal injury collisions on the N20 is four times higher than the national average.

At 8%, this proportion is four times higher than the national proportion of 2%.

That's according to statistics for the period 2016-2018 released by the N/M20 Project office. 

The figures also show that the rate of personal injury collisions on the N20 is substantially higher than average.

There were 87 personal injury collisions along the entire N20 route in the years 2016-2018. Seven collisions were fatal (8%), 13 resulted in serious injury (15%), and the remaining 67 resulted in minor injury (77%). 

A high percentage of collisions (63%) occurred along rural sections of the N20, which is significantly different from the national average (39%).

Meanwhile, based on provisional data received from Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) by the N/M20 project office, there were three fatal collisions on the N20 in 2019 and four in 2020 which is higher than the average of 2.33 fatal collisions per year in the period from 2016-2018.

Further contributing to road safety issues on the N20 is the 625 access points along the road comprising private dwellings, farm/field entrances and junctions.

The detailed analysis of collision data forms part of the appraisal of options for the Cork to Limerick project, which is currently underway. The scheme development is currently at Phase 2 which will see a preferred route option selected.

One of the key project objectives is to address road safety issues by reducing the rate and severity of collisions on the road network, in particular the existing N20 between Cork and Limerick.

The varying road characteristics from motorway, to dual carrigeway, a 2+1 carriageway, and single carraigeways both with and without hard shoulders featuring on the road can also lead to driver confusion according to the project office.

The N/M20 Project office has said it's hoped the various options under consideration, which are available on www.corklimerick.ie will help address these serious safety deficiencies and reduce the rate and severity of collisions along the N20.

Limerick City and County Council, in partnership with Cork County Council, Cork City Council, Tipperary County Council, Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport (DTTaS) are developing the N/M20 Cork to Limerick Improvement Scheme.

cjpm

On the times too

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/traffic-accidents-four-times-more-likely-to-be-fatal-on-n20-cork-limerick-road-1.4573929?mode=amp

There was an accident on the wire rope section today I heard.

Bass Reeves

kub wrote: »

I don't know if this has already been discussed on this forum but I have come across the below on The Evening Echo.

Quite obviously this says it all about the existing N20 and the safety of same :

The proportion of fatal collisions to all personal injury collisions on the N20 is four times higher than the national average.

At 8%, this proportion is four times higher than the national proportion of 2%.

That's according to statistics for the period 2016-2018 released by the N/M20 Project office. 

The figures also show that the rate of personal injury collisions on the N20 is substantially higher than average.

There were 87 personal injury collisions along the entire N20 route in the years 2016-2018. Seven collisions were fatal (8%), 13 resulted in serious injury (15%), and the remaining 67 resulted in minor injury (77%). 

A high percentage of collisions (63%) occurred along rural sections of the N20, which is significantly different from the national average (39%).

Meanwhile, based on provisional data received from Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) by the N/M20 project office, there were three fatal collisions on the N20 in 2019 and four in 2020 which is higher than the average of 2.33 fatal collisions per year in the period from 2016-2018.

Further contributing to road safety issues on the N20 is the 625 access points along the road comprising private dwellings, farm/field entrances and junctions.

The detailed analysis of collision data forms part of the appraisal of options for the Cork to Limerick project, which is currently underway. The scheme development is currently at Phase 2 which will see a preferred route option selected.

One of the key project objectives is to address road safety issues by reducing the rate and severity of collisions on the road network, in particular the existing N20 between Cork and Limerick.

The varying road characteristics from motorway, to dual carrigeway, a 2+1 carriageway, and single carraigeways both with and without hard shoulders featuring on the road can also lead to driver confusion according to the project office.

The N/M20 Project office has said it's hoped the various options under consideration, which are available on www.corklimerick.ie will help address these serious safety deficiencies and reduce the rate and severity of collisions along the N20.

Limerick City and County Council, in partnership with Cork County Council, Cork City Council, Tipperary County Council, Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport (DTTaS) are developing the N/M20 Cork to Limerick Improvement Scheme.

There is nothing surprising there. It's the worst road in the country in relation to the amount of traffic it carries by about 1000%. Most roads between major towns are better than it. It's a major national route that a load of people do not want to acknowledge as such for either political, idealogical or just plain naked greed.

As I posted earlier it's the most critical piece of national infrastructure at present and it about time people accepted it

cgcsb

cgcsb wrote: »

Although ev prices are dropping, there's a limit, lithium and cobalt are elements we cant make more of them

https://www.forbes.com/sites/neilwinton/2020/08/17/could-lithium-shortage-scupper-accelerating-sales-of-electric-cars/?sh=7ef6b8c076e5

Don't want to take away form everything else you said in your other posts, but just on this, nickel & cobalt in batteries are already being phased out in favour of Iron & Phosphates aka LiFePo batteries. Nickel due to its monetary cost and cobalt due to the human cost i.e DRC issues

As for lithium, its true that there's not an abundance of this material, however, for the amount used in todays batteries, there is several decades worth available. This does not take into account battery recycling which is beginning to come on stream in various locations around the world.

Lastly, the future looks bright for batteries to be honest as its an industry with obscene amounts of investment being pumped into it as these little yokes will be what powers the world by 2050. Lithium is just one small element (excuse the pun) and there are already several batteries under development which do not use lithium at all

Hibernicis

Truckermal wrote: »

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/plan-new-service-station-restaurant-20655741

Somebody must be thinking the M20 is a long way away looking to build a Service Station just above the existing one in Mallow.

Planning application on CCC website here. No documents uploaded to the CCC website yet. Townlands specified run from the roundabout near Dairygold to Mallow Hospital and take in land on both sides of the road. The application is in the name of Sirio Investment Management Ltd which is a subsidiary of TOP. Presumably this is a speculative application preempting the route of the M20 and the rerouting of other roads.

bk

Deleted User wrote: »

As for lithium, its true that there's not an abundance of this material, however, for the amount used in todays batteries, there is several decades worth available. This does not take into account battery recycling which is beginning to come on stream in various locations around the world.

Lithium is actually the 25th most abundant element on earth and there are no concerns about it running out. But you are correct, solid state batteries won’t be using it.

Interestingly one of the biggest uses of Cobalt is actually in the refining of oil into petrol and diesel, something I never see talked about.

The sooner we move to EV’s the better.

KrisW1001

Maybe we’ll find a deposit of lithium salts under one of the preferred route corridors...

Regarding the actual topic, the article in the papers is timely. Really, the case for N20 shouldn’t have to be made, but the objectors have been filling social media with the idea that the current road will be just fine as it is. This is a complete lie, and one that will cost lives if believed.

Fortunately, they have lost that battle: the road is going to be built, and will be built within one of the chosen corridors. The question is really only about exactly where within a corridor, and at what type. There is zero chance of a make-do-and-mend operation on the existing N20, especially around Mallow.

Hibernicis

Hibernicis wrote: »

Planning application on CCC website here. No documents uploaded to the CCC website yet. Townlands specified run from the roundabout near Dairygold to Mallow Hospital and take in land on both sides of the road. The application is in the name of Sirio Investment Management Ltd which is a subsidiary of TOP.

The documents were uploaded to the CCC website today and are available here.

The site is after the Diarygold Roundabout and before the large blue building (formerly Mallow Motor Factors). There is also an entrance planned onto the L92004 (the cul de sac leading to the railway carpark). So this is located on the Mallow side of the existing N20 Plaza.

The drawing titled “Site Location – Scale 1/2500 (18/05/2021)” shows the location and overall layout.

The drawing titled “Site Location (18/05/2021)” shows the planned facilities and HGV/car parking layout.

Detailed traffic assessments are included – obviously there must be a concern about TII’s views – this section of road being something of a hazard already.

Isambard

a second entrance on to the car park entrance road if I read it correctly, smart idea with a roundabout already there.

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

a second entrance on to the car park entrance road if I read it correctly, smart idea with a roundabout already there.

Very hard to exit the station at that roundabout since Annabella Roundabout was replaced with a turbo roundabout.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Very hard to exit the station at that roundabout since Annabella Roundabout was replaced with a turbo roundabout.

can't say I ever had a problem or even had to queue

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

can't say I ever had a problem or even had to queue

Traffic arriving much faster. A lot of people in Mallow find it difficult to get across the roundabout from the Mallow arm.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Traffic arriving much faster. A lot of people in Mallow find it difficult to get across the roundabout from the Mallow arm.

i can't really see how that roundabout is affected, although there are problems with the one by the Roundabout Tavern as was. SOme people too timid or incompetant to pull out when they can.

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

i can't really see how that roundabout is affected, although there are problems with the one by the Roundabout Tavern as was. SOme people too timid or incompetant to pull out when they can.

I meant Annabella, apologies.
The N20 is quite a bit elevated over the N72 hence the difficulty seeing traffic from the north.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

I meant Annabella, apologies.
The N20 is quite a bit elevated over the N72 hence the difficulty seeing traffic from the north.

That's why there was a STOP sign N20 southbound there originally I guess. Most people ignored it anyway but it had an effect (and my missus failed her D1 test there for not stopping )

Reputable Rog

Isambard wrote: »

That's why there was a STOP sign N20 southbound there originally I guess. Most people ignored it anyway but it had an effect (and my missus failed her D1 test there for not stopping )

Mallow has the worst standard of driving I’ve ever seen so difficulties with any roundabout would be acute.

Isambard

Reputable Rog wrote: »

Mallow has the worst standard of driving I’ve ever seen so difficulties with any roundabout would be acute.

yes, you have to be on your toes the way people cut across on that roundabout, lane discipline non-existant with some.

ianobrien

I had the pleasure of taking the N20 twice recently. The first was Thursday evening heading north and things moved along at an OK pace (despite the traffic volume). It took about 10 minutes to get through Charleville.

Sunday afternoon I was heading South and then I realised that the road is really unsuitable for the traffic. There were plenty of tractors etc on the road (expected given the fine weather). Most did try to help out by pulling over when they could but the road had nowhere to allow overtaking. There were a few artics trying to overtake tractors and couldn't. Looking back along the queue you could see some rather stupid overtaking, putting people at risk.

Chris_5339762

Having again driven the N20 up to Limerick and then motorway along to Galway, it really did show me again what a huge gap in the network this is. Its like a giant barrier in the south. Not just the lack of M20 I guess, but also the lack of the M20 - M8 CNRR link. Both of them should be very close to the top of the list.

But we all know there will be an almost guaranteed judicial review.

Isambard

i can't help feeling that Cork CC have been dragging their feet on improving the N20 for decades on the basis that it will get replaced by the M20 at some stage. Ballybeg must be proof of that.

Pete_Cavan

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

But we all know there will be an almost guaranteed judicial review.

It's far from guaranteed. Right now is peak opposition as there are multiple unnecessarily wide route corridors. Soon several of these will be dropped and the corridors that remain will be refined. When this happens and people realise the road wont be going near them, much of the opposition will remember that they aren't too bothered about the environment or whatever principled stand they are taking. Bar a small number of people who will be directly impacted by the chosen route, most people in those areas will likely be happy to get improved access to Cork and/or Limerick and huge volumes of traffic removed from their local town.

gifted

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Having again driven the N20 up to Limerick and then motorway along to Galway, it really did show me again what a huge gap in the network this is. Its like a giant barrier in the south. Not just the lack of M20 I guess, but also the lack of the M20 - M8 CNRR link. Both of them should be very close to the top of the list.

But we all know there will be an almost guaranteed judicial review.

It's a joke that there are speed ramps on the main road from limerick to Cork.

Cookiemunster

Isambard wrote: »

i can't help feeling that Cork CC have been dragging their feet on improving the N20 for decades on the basis that it will get replaced by the M20 at some stage. Ballybeg must be proof of that.

The N20 hasn't been in the remit of CCC for nearly 30 years. TII (and previously the NRA) are responsible for all national roads rather than the county councils.

Isambard

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The N20 hasn't been in the remit of CCC for nearly 30 years. TII (and previously the NRA) are responsible for all national roads rather than the county councils.

yes I know that, but it's Cork CC and the Councilors who should have been pushing for improvements but it suited them not to. They are still the responsible authority for maintaining the roads and frankly you wonder how they've been getting away with it. I used to travel the N72 daily and the difference when entering Co Waterford was amazing. I'm sure they got the same amount of Euro per Km

Limerick74

Collision on N20 at Waterloo Junction

Limerick74

Active Travel media release on Cork County Council website https://www.corkcoco.ie/en/news/active-travel-high-agenda-nm20-cork-limerick-project

danoriordan1402

Limerick74 wrote: »

Collision on N20 at Waterloo Junction

Jeez, that junction has claimed a few over the years. Hope all got out ok :eek:

Isambard

Limerick74 wrote: »

Collision on N20 at Waterloo Junction

i saw people on an English fb page laughing about that earlier.

I hope everyone is OK

steeler j

Isambard wrote: »

i saw people on an English fb page laughing about that earlier.

I hope everyone is OK

I don't know why people on social media get kicks out of other people's misfortune ,I wonder would the people be laughing if they were in the passenger seat .
I do hope everyone is ok , vehicles can be replaced