M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

steeler j

Irha want to build 2 bypasses and finish the rest off on a later date , that's just kicking the can down the road . This is the last major road infrastructure and it should be done as soon as possible . The Irha are completely wrong here

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118991655#Comment_118991655

Distance via Cahir would be 120-130km compared to less than 100km via an M20 option. Most traffic on this route originates on this route. Absolute rubbish out of an organisation that should know better.

Good quality single or lane and a half carrigeway will suffice most of the Limerick to Cahir route and onto Waterford.

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995118#Comment_118995118

Wouldn’t you think the editor of the Examiner would have more cop on than letting that jibberish go to print.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118996736#Comment_118996736

I have no problem with them printing it. The problem arises in that they have done little in the way of a counter view.

pigtown

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118995118#Comment_118995118

What's lane and a half?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118997974#Comment_118997974

It's what they tried to do at Mallow. There is an adequate section at Cahir. Basically your road switches from one to two lanes every 3+km. But you do it to the same width as lanes in motorway it dual carriageway

Sam Russell

They are very dangerous and save very little money. As soon as the second lane opens, the racers try to outdo each other before the next changeover.

Why penny pinch for such a project?

Cookiemunster

TII have already said that no 2+1 roads will be built in the future. 2+2 is the standard to be used between single carriageway and dual carriageway/motorway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118998557#Comment_118998557

I drove that 2+1 in Cork a lot a few years back. I never saw such dangerous driving.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118998590#Comment_118998590

The I e in Cork is anomaly. It was imposed on an existing road without any upgrade. The one below Cahir is a different setup it's new road. Neither are the real deal where you have maybe 40-60km of continual switching every 3km.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118998586#Comment_118998586

There is no 2+1 roads build at present. There is just the dangerous thing they did in Mallow and the bit outside Cahir.

Down the line some of the better single carrigways may be upgradable with minor land acquisition if needed. Newcastlewest to Castleisland would be such a road. There is some up around the west and Midlands. The Knock bypass word be another example

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118998754#Comment_118998754

The were a number of 2+1 pilot schemes built. The M20 outside Mallow, N2 Clontibret to Castleblayney and the Piltown Bypass. After these were built the NRA decided against building any more and replaced the 2+1 with 2+2 as they were too dangerous.

The N4 Dromod to Rooskey was to be 2+1 but was upgraded to 2+2 during planning.

As for Newcastle West, it and Abbeyfeale are due to get full green field bypasses. If the rest of the road is to be upgraded it will be to 2+2 standard (which I think is now called type 2 DC).

Cookiemunster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118998590#Comment_118998590

Such dangerous overtaking is the reason that the NRA decided not to build any more of them back in 2007.

However, the NRA found that there was a tendency for drivers to accelerate to try and pass traffic just before the double-lane section switched and that this was a hazard.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/nra-decides-against-2-1-road-design-1.951308

Sam Russell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118998590#Comment_118998590

You may not have seen it, but there are plenty of head cases on the road who appear to have one goal in life and that is to overtake the vehicle in front - even if it is stupidly dangerous. I have seen reckless overtaking across solid white lines to gain nothing too often. Young male drivers are the most common at it - but there are plenty others.

Now, to build a 2+1 DC is just setting up a situation for such nutters to see a need to get past that car in front before the dual carriageway returns to single lane. It is a hazard we can do without.

It is a study in penny pinching.

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118999583#Comment_118999583

It’s more than that. It’s a study of stupidity

KrisW1001

The 2+1 new-builds (Cahir is one) are much better than the 2+1 retrofits (Piltown, N20 south of Mallow), but the 2+2 road type is only slightly more expensive and has much higher capacity and much higher safety levels. A 2+2 gives both directions two lanes all the time,and with every junction as a grade-separated one, or a large roundabout: there are no crossing movements.

2+1, or “Type 3 Dual Carriageway” to give it its proper name, is no longer in the standard design manual at TII, so it cannot be used for any new road projects on the national network.

N24 Cahir to Limerick is planned to be a 2+2, and the Waterford to Cahir section will probably be too. Nobody is proposing a “motorway” (type 1 DC) here.

Limerick74

Traffic Surveys underway https://corklimerick.ie/n-m20-cork-to-limerick-project-traffic-surveys/

gifted

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119324530#Comment_119324530

That the same national road that has speed ramps on it? Only in ireland......

Bass Reeves

Limerick Foynes road after getting approval. Bypass Adare,onto Rathkeale ( this is motorway) dual carriageway then to Foynes.

https://www.limerickleader.ie/news/breaking-news/899557/breaking-proposed-limerick-to-foynes-road-approved-by-an-bord-pleanala.html

it will be interesting if the usual suspects will try to delay it further

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552287#Comment_119552287

Was there much local opposition to the M21 road?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552321#Comment_119552321

I am not really sure. According to the papers it was by some landowners effected only.

However now if there is no objections the LA has to start serving notices to treat ( purchase and take over of land of land within 12 months).

This means if no objections the minister must allow the project to proceed to land purchase/ take over or the complete project will have to start again

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552382#Comment_119552382

The M21 and M20 could really transform the south west and mid west in terms of access. Hope they get it done.

cjpm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552409#Comment_119552409

They would also save lives.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119552287#Comment_119552287

By usual suspects, do you mean Eamon Ryan? I imagine he is in favour of the M21 given the link it provides to Foynes. This will be a launch port for huge investment in offshore wind power. Can't see anything but support from the Greens.

On the M20, clearly from the Limerick Leader article, this won't advance for at least another decade. What a joke. If the Greens are so sure on their plan (active travel, town bypasses, regional trains) then let's see them put their (our) money where their mouth is.....

pigtown

Does anybody think that the new m20 and m21 when open will cause problems at the existing m7-m20 sliproad? It's just a single lane and it merges very close to J2 on the m20. I can see conflict with trucks especially and people coming from the city and trying not to miss the J2 exit.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572719#Comment_119572719

It will obviously have to be redesigned. There should have been two slipways first day. However penny pinching decided on that solution. The present solution would not work for the M20 anyway

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119572431#Comment_119572431

God what a sad country we live in at times. It’s heading into winter, we’re facing the prospect of insane energy prices, if not shortages, and the Minister responsible for these areas is in Matt Cooper’s kitchen preaching about how he’s going to defy his own agencies and obstruct Government policy for no apparent gain. TII have always said this needs to be a T1DC/motorway the whole length, it’s also widely seen as common sense that it has to be done as so. If it’s not done as such, it’ll have to be revisited again at additional cost. At the minute, we’re building a second bypass of Castlebar replacing a 90s build, upgrading a junction in Cork at a cost of €100m+ that was built in the 90s, and we have 2nd bypasses/upgrades in planning for Killarney, Clonmel, Rathkeale, Mallow, Monaghan, Galway City and more because they weren’t done right the first time.

Such a desperate shame. This is completely at odds with the local TDs as well who, apart from the Green Party TD from Limerick whose policies would in general align with someone who was sent in to advocate policies to handicap the growth of the city, are fully in favour of the M20. It’ll be interesting to see how it goes.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573035#Comment_119573035

In fairness, most of the places you mentioned were always going to need both an inner distributor road and an outer bypass. The issue is not building two roads with distinct purposes, its the length of time between them being built. In the case of Killarney, I can't see another bypass being built, an upgrade with some junctions being closed would be more likely.

A bigger travesty around the towns you mentioned would have been a Tullamore bypass situation where one road was specifically built for two non-compatible purposes and we will be stuck with that for a very long time.

marno21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573472#Comment_119573472

That’s a fair point about needing both but they were built with the intention of them being long term bypasses. There’s a whole other debate about development at junctions that could be had there. I take your point on Tullamore too but haven’t used it enough to understand it

Killarney certainly needs a bypass. The 1990 relief road now starts and ends in the town, it has several horrific junctions along it and the northern and eastern approaches, and the two original terminal roundabouts have been destroyed with development and have no room for expansion. It also needs a link to the N71.

My main point is, when there’s a colossal sum spent on this road, it should be spent for once and for all. No one is talking about upgrading the inter urbans built in the 2000s, or the Limerick/Waterford bypasses, or the new parts of the M11 etc, which we would be doing if these were half assed builds in the first place

IMO it's the last bit of motorway that needs to be built. It's a disaster of a road and an embarrassment in its current form. Eamon Ryan really is the most unlikeable politician in recent memory..

hans aus dtschl

Certainly I wouldn't be one for cheerleading new roads, but this one seems to be an absolute no-brainer.

For anyone saying that the rail line should be upgraded as a competitor to the M20, I say "yes please, do that too". But the M20 is needed. It shouldn't be either/or.