M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301985#Comment_122301985

That poster is just anti all developments.

And I'm getting the sneaking suspicion he is just following me around at this stage.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301715#Comment_122301715

Right. I'll be as patient as I can.

Imagine all those drivers commuting between Limerick and Cork were used as justification for the M20. Then there's no M20 project at all. Because we don't justify schemes based on specific end user journeys, we base them on requirements on a corridor. It's the same for walking, cycling, driving etc: there's a reasonable radius for every mode. We've surely done this to absolute death at this stage.

Secondly, if you don't balance sustainable infrastructure against your car infrastructure then you can wave goodbye to the whole project.

Blarney to Cork is a very easy cycle commute but has no infrastructure. Rathduff to Blarney business park is straightforward but has no cycle infrastructure. Rathduff to Mallow is about the limits in terms of distance. But again no cycle infrastructure. This continues up and down the corridor.

In terms of the "shur nobody uses it" dog whistle, leave it for another thread. The new-build sustainable infrastructure in Cork is getting very heavy use. We had to read all the same rubbish in the Midleton Youghal greenway thread: "shur nobody will use it", and it's been an unequivocal success.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302009#Comment_122302009

Don't flatter yourself. I'm not anti everything just anti stupidity , when valuable taxpayers money is being squandered on projects to benefit the minority.

For other posters benefit you are the individual that blatantly called me a liar on another forum and didn't have the backbone to retract that accusation when I proved you wrong. You are a lucky kid that libel laws in Ireland are fairly relaxed.

Now sod off or we could meet to discuss this further offline.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301985#Comment_122301985

Quick shout-out though to the new-build bits in the Cork area which are seeing very heavy use. And it's really only just beginning, in terms of the roll-outs of approved schemes.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302060#Comment_122302060

👍👍. 100%

hans aus dtschl

Maybe labouring the point, but the walking/cycling part of the project is also really really low cost. Likely lower cost than a couple of the "hubs". Tiny compared to the wider project. Roads are really expensive.

I understand the idea that adding the walking/cycling modes into the corridor demands looks like some kind of "qu'ils mangent de la brioche" sop, but it's so easy, there's no reason NOT do it! Rail is obviously a whole different story, but it's the "cycling on the motorway" clickbait headlines that seem to have caught people's attention and rubbed people up badly.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122301658#Comment_122301658

Yep but there's no M20 Blarney P&R junction in the "concept" maps is what we're wondering about!

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302180#Comment_122302180

Just saying cycling sets a certain group off.

They will always say "I have nothing against cycle lanes but" and then when one is being built with no impact on car users they still cry.

KrisW1001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302186#Comment_122302186

P+R at Blarney station would be a project undertaken by IÉ on its own lands, so it can happen regardless of this road being built or not.

I think it's a good idea, given how tough planning is in this country, to not bundle things together unless absolutely necessary. I note that the travel hubs are just marked areas with an access in and out: I suspect the contents of each of these will be the subject of separate planning applications too: the last thing we want is the motorway to be delayed by objectors to bus shelters...

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302061#Comment_122302061

Libel laws? ROFL.

How can someone libel an anonymous account on the internet..

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302255#Comment_122302255

x1000 % this.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302432#Comment_122302432

You try mentioning a name online that is covered by a court order and you will see how anonymous an online account really is.

prunudo

i don't know why anyone would want to cycle or walk parallel to a motorway even if segregated, but each to their own.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302467#Comment_122302467

I often cycle on the old road to Ennis which is very close to the M18. The relative lack of scenery and the noise make it not as nice as the more scenic routes from Limerick but it's also the difference between me making it there and not.

I often cycle back in the dual carriageway from Bunratty too for the same reasons of good surface, more even gradient and more direct route.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302467#Comment_122302467

This has come up a few times too, people seem to be thinking of it as some kind of cycling destination. A comparable question would be: why would anyone want to drive beside a railway? Well they mostly wouldn't, rather they just want to get from A-B.

I currently cycle to Blarney, options are pretty poor. Between Blarney and Mallow the old road is still usable enough and I do use it but I can understand why novices would be scared and would prefer full segregation. North of Mallow though there are no options at all for cyclists wanting to travel North-South. So it's not about people wanting to walk or cycle parallel to a motorway, they just want routes from A to B.

Your next question might be "I don't know why anyone would want to drive to Mallow in the first place", and I can't help with that one I'm afraid.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302498#Comment_122302498

Yep, the roads themselves aren't the destination, basically.

prunudo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302498#Comment_122302498

I sometimes go on hard shoulder on part of n11 and its not a nice experience. Give me the old road any day, away from the noise and less exposed to the elements.

Like everything, the devil will be in the details and how its designed. Just hope its not just a token gesture like so often is the case.

cgcsb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302467#Comment_122302467

Is this a why did the chicken cross the road type question?

HHow Else does one get around, hardly by scenic routes only.

chrisd2019

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122299308#Comment_122299308

while at it, why no add a tractor lane also!

markodaly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302464#Comment_122302464

I am talking about your account.

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302551#Comment_122302551

Are they vulnerable?

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302523#Comment_122302523

Check out the maps in the dropbox link on the project website. There's a lot of detail there. Definitely not a token gesture, but lots of smaller details can be improved. They give the images of the typical cross-sections on the project website and the map shows what cross sections apply where. Looks like green barrier physical segregation almost throughout, sometimes with wide and vertical segregation (against M8) and sometimes with narrow horizontal segregation (against secondary road). Looks pretty good with just some junctions to possibly be improved, from what I can see.

boetstark

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302591#Comment_122302591

I had made it pretty obvious my identity earlier in forum

scrabtom

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122302061#Comment_122302061

Libel over a Boards.ie comment 😂😂😂 Come on now buddy

KrisW1001

If the concept drawings are to scale, the footways/cycleways alongside the motorway will be at least 10 metres from the outside barrier of the motorway.

.. the proposal engineering drawings are to scale if anyone wants to check the exact distances.

Pete_Cavan

I think the proposals as currently are are fairly disappointing overall.

The "transport hubs" seem to be just car parks with no detail on what level of bus services will serve them. Given the rail line runs parallel to the road for much of it, there seems to be no attempt to connect with it. There will be regular train services passing (CART) there but very few stations. I know people will say that that is for IE but this project seems happy enough to hatch some areas with no consideration for accessing potential train station locations.

Rathduff/Grenagh seems a big missed opportunity to provide a new station with an existing community and potential for population growth around it. A station could be added north of the existing bridge by the school. A new road and bridge north of that again would open up the area for development. It would be far cheaper and likely more successful than pipe-dreams like Monard.

Buttevant is another place where they have just hatched an area as a "transport hub" but hard to see how it would be of any use. There is the potential for a train station on the other side of the town where a better transport hub could be created. Feed it with a Local Link bus between Doneraile and Liscarroll or something like that. A station here would be a good stop for a direct Cork/Limerick service.

I also don't think the Charleville junction will adequately serve the town. A lot of traffic will still pass through the Main Street going to/from the motorway. Bruree does not justify a junction, that junction should be 5km further south and still be far enough from the junction south of the town. I still don't see the logic for going west of Charleville, the eastern side would allow for the creation of a transport hub at the train station. As they are putting the motorway west of the town, a distributor road is needed from the Kilmallock Road to the Primary Care Centre.

The active travel route around Charleville is also disappointing, almost 20km along the motorway with no towns/villages along the way. It wont be useful for local journeys. Options are limited unfortunately.