M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

L1011

Deedsie wrote: »

How do you mean cover itself? Surely any payback from a toll would be of benefit? Two tolls from Cork to Tuam seems reasonable when you compare it to the tolls on the M8, M7, M50.

It wouldn't cover the construction costs so no financiers would be interested. It may not even cover operating costs

Sam Russell

Deedsie wrote: »

How do you mean cover itself? Surely any payback from a toll would be of benefit? Two tolls from Cork to Tuam seems reasonable when you compare it to the tolls on the M8, M7, M50.

At the present time, the tolls on the Shannon tunnel and the two tolls on the M3 and the one on the M6 and possibly the Waterford one do not go over the threshold for the top up from the state - so we might as well remove the toll booths and save the expense of collecting the money.

guylikeme

Sam Russell wrote: »

At the present time, the tolls on the Shannon tunnel and the two tolls on the M3 and the one on the M6 and possibly the Waterford one do not go over the threshold for the top up from the state - so we might as well remove the toll booths and save the expense of collecting the money.

Would set some historical precedence if a government did something so nice. Only example I know of is staten island ferry in new york

M6 company have to eat their losses. Fairly sure same for waterford bypass. No deals signed with state for top ups in these cases

Chris_5339762

Yup, only M3 and Limerick Tunnel had guaranteed traffic levels... neither of them would have been viable without this guarantee and with the arse coming out of the economy we'd have neither had that not been in place.

JCX BXC

Out of Interest, has the Shannon tunnel situation improved any bit? What are the figures?

guylikeme

Carnacalla wrote: »

Out of Interest, has the Shannon tunnel situation improved any bit? What are the figures?

Nratraffic website probably has them. Out of laziness I haven't checked.

I think they will improve when M18 and adare bypass is finished. More tourist trips from munster to connacht I would imagine.

Limerick74

Article on Limerick Tunnel traffic http://www.live95fm.ie/News-Sport/Article/?ItemID=24186 which says traffic has grown from 14,000 to 20,000 vehicles per day over last 4 years

Schadenfreudia

Limerick74 wrote: »

Article on Limerick Tunnel traffic http://www.live95fm.ie/News-Sport/Article/?ItemID=24186 which says traffic has grown from 14,000 to 20,000 vehicles per day over last 4 years

Indeed.

It is amazing the number of roads projects that were being slated on forums like this one in the immediate aftermath of the economic crash as "gross over-design" or "over-capacity" are now getting clogged!

The Government's recent ditching of DU because the "Celtic Tiger projections" were too optimistic are looking a daft just two months later.

Short-termism if the curse of this country.

JCX BXC

There does seem to be two sides of the spectrum. People accuse this country of not planning forward and not building infrastructure, then when they FINALLY do, some of the same people turn around and complain about the cost and that it wasn't needed and a waste of money.

Certainly as of late I notice the limerick toll being quite busy, haven't passed it in months without having at least 1 car on front of me in the basket lane and theres always at least 5 in the lane where you can receive change!

JCX BXC

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-pays-120000-a-week-to-subsidise-road-toll-operators-26823315.html

According to this article 19,400 users were expected on the Shannon Tunnel. With the figure now at 20,000, does that mean no more state subsidies?

Schadenfreudia

Carnacalla wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-pays-120000-a-week-to-subsidise-road-toll-operators-26823315.html

According to this article 19,400 users were expected on the Shannon Tunnel. With the figure now at 20,000, does that mean no more state subsidies?

Probably.

But journalists don't find infrastructural goods news storeys very interesting.

Limerick74

Unfortunately the traffic guarantee goes up a thousand or so every year so the 19,400 is probably more like 23,400 now and the state subsidies continue.

Schadenfreudia

Limerick74 wrote: »

Unfortunately the traffic guarantee goes up a thousand or so every year so the 19,400 is probably more like 23,400 now and the state subsidies continue.

Goes up until it reaches what number? 25,000?

Jhcx

Im trying to find out on the corkcoco what there doing on the N20 near Mallow. like its some serious work good few miles closed off for the last few months. the few times ive gone through i havent noticed anything different only that the road has become more of a zig zag weaving from the hard shoulder to the inner fast lanes. Jaysus if its only to slow people down that they want to do, just put a speed van there lol :pac:

marno21

Discussed in detail here

mydiscworld

I'll be heading though Buttevant over Xmas. How are the works progressing? Any sign of a finishing date?

jgbyr

mydiscworld wrote: »

I'll be heading though Buttevant over Xmas. How are the works progressing? Any sign of a finishing date?

Don't know about a finishing date, but the traffic lights are gone until the new year.

betistuc

Minister Pascal Donoghoe on Newstalk today with the Plank . Minister referred to the Cork - Limerick road as the N22. Doesn't fill me with confidence.

He also completely dissed the idea of the eastern part of the M50 being built because of environmental impact issues

spacetweek

betistuc wrote: »

Minister referred to the Cork - Limerick road as

What did he say about the road?

Victor

Constructive, on-topic posts only, please.

Several posts deleted.

Moderator

JCX BXC

So, what are the chances the M20 won't be included in the next transport plan? (I assume this post isn't OT right mods?)

marno21

spacetweek wrote: »

What did he say about the road?

He basically said that they will wait until the Capital plan is reviewed in 2017 where they can come up with another excuse to mothball the project.

He said the main reason that the project isn't proceeding is because of the pricetag on the scheme. Perhaps if they got a dose of reality and built the road in smaller schemes it may get built. When the Naas bypass was being planned on the M7 no one put forward a 160km motorway scheme, instead it was done in affordable chunks. Why the M20 scheme can't be done the same way is mind boggling

Ren2k7

betistuc wrote: »

Minister Pascal Donoghoe on Newstalk today with the Plank . Minister referred to the Cork - Limerick road as the N22. Doesn't fill me with confidence.

He also completely dissed the idea of the eastern part of the M50 being built because of environmental impact issues

Not a surprising attitude. His predecessor Vlad opposed the extent of the current motorway programme, calling it excessive and over-speced. We probably should be thankful FG were never in power during the boom or all we'd ever get was a few infrastructure projects around Dublin and some bypasses. The Blueshirts don't really like large scale infrastructure projects, they consider it wasteful spending.

marno21 wrote: »

He basically said that they will wait until the Capital plan is reviewed in 2017 where they can come up with another excuse to mothball the project.

He said the main reason that the project isn't proceeding is because of the pricetag on the scheme. Perhaps if they got a dose of reality and built the road in smaller schemes it may get built. When the Naas bypass was being planned on the M7 no one put forward a 160km motorway scheme, instead it was done in affordable chunks. Why the M20 scheme can't be done the same way is mind boggling

Bypass the towns and villages on the route one at a time with HQDC, eventually linking them with motorways. Of course this would probably cost more in the long run rather than proceeding with the entire scheme in one guy. Long term planning isn't something that exists within the minds of govt ministers.

cjpm

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-limerick-motorway-plan-too-expensive-says-transport-minister-paschal-donohoe-374111.html


I really hate this muppet. Worse than Vradker when he had transport.

Just divide the damn thing up into 3 or 4 sections and get some bit of it moving!!!!!!!!

It's a farcical situation

Geogregor

cjpm wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/cork-limerick-motorway-plan-too-expensive-says-transport-minister-paschal-donohoe-374111.html


I really hate this muppet. Worse than Vradker when he had transport.

Just divide the damn thing up into 3 or 4 sections and get some bit of it moving!!!!!!!!

It's a farcical situation

Precisely.
None of the other interurbans was build in one large scheme but bit by bit. There must be some logical way of dividing this motorway to 3-4 separate stretches.
What a mess...

marmurr1916

South of Croom to north of Mallow should be built as soon as possible since it's the worst section of the existing N20.

For the second phase, a bypass of Mallow.

The rest could be long-fingered as the route between Cork and Mallow isn't terrible, and there must be scope to upgrade large sections of the stretch between the end of the dual-carriageway (at the turn off for Blarney) and south of Mallow to 2+2.

A dual-carriageway/2+2/motorway route from Cork to the southern end of the Croom bypass would be an acceptable compromise for the time being.

cjpm

The politicians in Limerick and Cork should be shouting from the roof tops over this bull****. They haven't a pair of balls between the whole lot of them.

guylikeme

I think the problem is 2-fold

Northern end has the question/task of the Adare bypass being built. The new EU funding for N69 etc up there complicates things (although of course the bypass is more than welcome). The tie in with this would need altering.

Southern end has that 2+1 around Mallow thats a bit awkward to reverse engineer (i assume the upgrade is being done online, i'm not sure though).

Political will, the cost of the whole project and other priorities will hold this up a long time.

loyatemu

cjpm wrote: »

The politicians in Limerick and Cork should be shouting from the roof tops over this bull****. They haven't a pair of balls between the whole lot of them.

How often to Cork politicians have to travel to Limerick and vice-versa? They travel to Dublin every week.

D Trent

loyatemu wrote: »

How often to Cork politicians have to travel to Limerick and vice-versa? They travel to Dublin every week.

Some in the back of a rural cork Garda patrol car