M20 - Cork to Limerick [preferred route chosen; in design - phase 3]

L1011

Sam Kade wrote: »

Driver error is the cause in over 90% of all accidents.

And reducing or removing the risk of driver error reduces the incidence. Something grade separated, divided roads do very well.

Sam Russell

Mod: Can we restrict this thread to the M20 - rather than off topic discussions of driver error etc.

Jhcx

I really am surprised though that such a road is still allowed with such a high volume of traffic. A dual carriageway would have even done. A bypass of the towns is badly needed there really only the bottlenecks due to local machinery needing to use small sections to get from a-b

marno21

The bump in the road where the Croom BP meets the (what should be old) existing N20 at Anhid Cross has been flattened out with work over the last day/two.

Shurwhynot

So if we have a Fine Gael minority government, supported by Fianna Fail, can we expect one of Fianna Fail's conditions to be the construction of this road?

Tax take was 1.1% more than expected for Q1. It honestly is so baffling that this road isn't priority number 1 infrastructure wise in the country. I'd be embarrassed to show any tourists around this part of the country, and tell them that this is the main road between our 2nd and 3rd largest cities. Unbelievable.

L1011

Shurwhynot wrote: »

Tax take was 1.1% more than expected for Q1.

Heavily due to an earlier than expected payment of corporation tax that is not guaranteed to be repeated.

touts

Shurwhynot wrote: »

So if we have a Fine Gael minority government, supported by Fianna Fail, can we expect one of Fianna Fail's conditions to be the construction of this road?

Tax take was 1.1% more than expected for Q1. It honestly is so baffling that this road isn't priority number 1 infrastructure wise in the country. I'd be embarrassed to show any tourists around this part of the country, and tell them that this is the main road between our 2nd and 3rd largest cities. Unbelievable.

Angela says no.

Shurwhynot

L1011 wrote: »

Heavily due to an earlier than expected payment of corporation tax that is not guaranteed to be repeated.

OK fair enough, but tax takes in general for the past 2 years and this year have all been ahead of the trend.

There's no doubting that there is more money there - fair enough, the national debt still remains high, but the boost this would give to the country would be huge in my opinion.

A €550m motorway gets built between Gort & Tuam, and not between Cork & Limerick. What a country

moyners

touts wrote: »

Angela says no.

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2016/0301/771785-european-commission-report/

Not sure about that!

lawred2

Shurwhynot wrote: »

OK fair enough, but tax takes in general for the past 2 years and this year have all been ahead of the trend.

There's no doubting that there is more money there - fair enough, the national debt still remains high, but the boost this would give to the country would be huge in my opinion.

A €550m motorway gets built between Gort & Tuam, and not between Cork & Limerick. What a country

You would have to question what exactly elected representatives for Limerick and Cork have been doing for the last twenty/thirty years?

marmurr1916

Shurwhynot wrote: »

A €550m motorway gets built between Gort & Tuam, and not between Cork & Limerick. What a country

Another fecking eejit - it's not a fecking motorway between Gort and Tuam.

It's part of the Atlantic Corridor route connecting Rosslare, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Shannon Airport, Galway, Sligo, Letterkenny and Derry.

Giving out about the M18/M17 sections currently being built would be like giving out about a motorway being built between Mallow and Croom.

Engage your brain before you post.

Cookiemunster

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Another fecking eejit - it's not a fecking motorway between Gort and Tuam.

It's part of the Atlantic Corridor route connecting Rosslare, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Shannon Airport, Galway, Sligo, Letterkenny and Derry.

Giving out about the M18/M17 sections currently being built would be like giving out about a motorway being built between Mallow and Croom.

Engage your brain before you post.

Unless the M20 and North of Tuam to Letterkenny are built then it's simply a motorway between Gort and Tuam. The most important sections should have been built first. Instead the N/M18 was build first and the M20 is likely to be last.

Calina

Calina wrote: »

With respect to the primary objective of this thread, it is extremely disappointing that the M20 is being dawdled over. Arguments that Galway-Tuam are a part of a Cork-Derry link up lose currency when the Cork Limerick section is staying off the priority list. From where I am sitting, it seems as though commuting traffic in Galway is being prioritised over interurban traffic.

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Another fecking eejit - it's not a fecking motorway between Gort and Tuam.

It's part of the Atlantic Corridor route connecting Rosslare, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Shannon Airport, Galway, Sligo, Letterkenny and Derry.

Giving out about the M18/M17 sections currently being built would be like giving out about a motorway being built between Mallow and Croom.

Engage your brain before you post.

Personally speaking, when building the Atlantic Corridor, Cork to Limerick should have been prioritised over Gort toTuam. The fact that it wasn't suggests to me that the Atlantic Corridor is vapourware for the time being, or there was an unexpected interest in joining two small towns on the corridor before the two biggest urban zones on the corridor. M20 should have been prioritised and it would help if you didn't assume that people who are suggesting that have not engaged their brains.

marno21

Back to the M/N20, two people have died in a collision on the N20 this evening between Mallow and Buttevant

RTE wrote:

An elderly couple have died following a two car collision in Co Cork.

The crash happened on the main Buttivant to Mallow road at around 5.30pm this evening.

Witnesses say the car the couple were driving appeared to veer across the road into the path of an oncoming car.

RIP.

Shurwhynot

marmurr1916 wrote: »

Another fecking eejit - it's not a fecking motorway between Gort and Tuam.

It's part of the Atlantic Corridor route connecting Rosslare, Waterford, Cork, Limerick, Shannon Airport, Galway, Sligo, Letterkenny and Derry.

Giving out about the M18/M17 sections currently being built would be like giving out about a motorway being built between Mallow and Croom.

Engage your brain before you post.

It sure looks like a motorway between Gort and Tuam to me. It might be passed off as "part of the Atlantic Corridor" but it's still a motorway between 2 towns in Galway, while the road between the 2nd and 3rd largest Irish cities remains 3rd world like.

When it's completed, and I'm driving from Gort to Tuam I'll have to remind myself that I'm actually not on a motorway so, I'm on a magical corridor.

Good man yeah

And we have 2 more deaths on the M20 today. RIP to them, I hope our politicians are ashamed.

D Trent

Shurwhynot wrote: »

It sure looks like a motorway between Gort and Tuam to me. It might be passed off as "part of the Atlantic Corridor" but it's still a motorway between 2 towns in Galway, while the road between the 2nd and 3rd largest Irish cities remains 3rd world like.

When it's completed, and I'm driving from Gort to Tuam I'll have to remind myself that I'm actually not on a motorway so, I'm on a magical corridor.

Good man yeah

And we have 2 more deaths on the M20 today. RIP to them, I hope our politicians are ashamed.

There definitely is a need for an M20, it was needed 8 years ago.
But
If you count all the fatalities there have been more on the N18 and N17 than the N20 road.
So... Good man

Reputable Rog

The only reason Gort to Tuam went first is that the CPO process was complete and the scheme adopted.
Buttevant traders sought an oral hearing into the M20 scheme as they weren't happy with only being served by Mallow North and Charleville and wanted a junction of their own, this delayed can the whole process.
One of the major problems with the Irish motorway network is that the junctions are too close together and thus encourage commuting and short hop traffic which reduces efficiency.

AugustusMinimus

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The only reason Gort to Tuam went first is that the CPO process was complete and the scheme adopted.
Buttevant traders sought an oral hearing into the M20 scheme as they weren't happy with only being served by Mallow North and Charleville and wanted a junction of their own, this delayed can the whole process.
One of the major problems with the Irish motorway network is that the junctions are too close together and thus encourage commuting and short hop traffic which reduces efficiency.

You could have 40 junctions on the M20 and it still would never exceed its design limit.

We're not talking about the M50 here.

AugustusMinimus

D Trent wrote: »

There definitely is a need for an M20, it was needed 8 years ago.
But
If you count all the fatalities there have been more on the N18 and N17 than the N20 road.
So... Good man

The big question is just how much traffic will use this road. Limerick - Galway traffic may be better off using the old road as the new M18 will be a lot longer.

D Trent

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The big question is just how much traffic will use this road. Limerick - Galway traffic may be better off using the old road as the new M18 will be a lot longer.

Not if the speed limit will be 80km/h on what will be the old road, which I think is what Galway CoCo will opt for when that decision has to be made

AugustusMinimus

D Trent wrote: »

Not if the speed limit will be 80km/h on what will be the old road, which I think is what Galway CoCo will opt for when that decision has to be made

Only if the NRA out pressure on councillors. Seems to be a trend everywhere now to up the limit on old N roads back to 100kph.

While I understand that an 80kph limit is useful for traffic shaping, roads should have their limits set on their design alone. If it's capable of 100kph now, it will be capable in a few years when traffic levels are lower.

D Trent

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Only if the NRA out pressure on councillors. Seems to be a trend everywhere now to up the limit on old N roads back to 100kph.

While I understand that an 80kph limit is useful for traffic shaping, roads should have their limits set on their design alone. If it's capable of 100kph now, it will be capable in a few years when traffic levels are lower.

All the old Interurban roads now R roads are 100km/h as they are fine wide roads
But from Gort down to Ennis the old N18 is 80km/h which I think Ardrahan to Oranmore will be (not including short N67 stretch from new motorway junction to Kilcolgan

Sam Russell

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Only if the NRA out pressure on councillors. Seems to be a trend everywhere now to up the limit on old N roads back to 100kph.

While I understand that an 80kph limit is useful for traffic shaping, roads should have their limits set on their design alone. If it's capable of 100kph now, it will be capable in a few years when traffic levels are lower.

But actually is it suitable for 100 kph? Does it have a full hard shoulder and proper sight lines?

Some of these N roads in the west should not even have 80 kph limits.

marno21

D Trent wrote: »

All the old Interurban roads now R roads are 100km/h as they are fine wide roads
But from Gort down to Ennis the old N18 is 80km/h which I think Ardrahan to Oranmore will be (not including short N67 stretch from new motorway junction to Kilcolgan

Limerick to Nenagh isn't and it's wide S2, although has retrofitted sightlines and is frequented by speed vans.

The N18 from Ennis to Gort is narrow S2 and overall not suitable for 100km/h.

Cookiemunster

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The only reason Gort to Tuam went first is that the CPO process was complete and the scheme adopted.
Buttevant traders sought an oral hearing into the M20 scheme as they weren't happy with only being served by Mallow North and Charleville and wanted a junction of their own, this delayed can the whole process.
One of the major problems with the Irish motorway network is that the junctions are too close together and thus encourage commuting and short hop traffic which reduces efficiency.

The M20 could have been at this stage too, except the first thing Varadker did as Minister for Transport was to pull it before ABP could make their decision.

highwaymaniac

Cookiemunster wrote: »

The M20 could have been at this stage too, except the first thing Varadker did as Minister for Transport was to pull it before ABP could make their decision.

Exactly, mind boggling arrogance to pull it before ABP could make a decision. Even if the government did have the cash to start the CPO process within 18 months of approval, at least we could have got some value for the 20 million or so spent on the planning process if ABP were allowed give a decision.
It would have been beneficial to see if ABP agreed with the need for the scheme, route selection e.g. online widening blarney to mallow, M8-N24 not a viable alternative. Also the N21 adare bypass would probably have not been refused as being premature isolated development.

marmurr1916

Calina wrote: »

Personally speaking, when building the Atlantic Corridor, Cork to Limerick should have been prioritised over Gort toTuam. The fact that it wasn't suggests to me that the Atlantic Corridor is vapourware for the time being, or there was an unexpected interest in joining two small towns on the corridor before the two biggest urban zones on the corridor. M20 should have been prioritised and it would help if you didn't assume that people who are suggesting that have not engaged their brains.

Well you certainly haven't.

The M18 section being built from Gort to Rathmorrisey is part of the road from Limerick to Galway, the third and fourth largest cities in the republic.

The M17 is part of the road from Galway to Sligo, and Galway to Tuam is one of the busier sections of single-carriageway national primary roads in the country.

To characterise the project as a 'road from Gort to Tuam' is just plain stupid.

I see someone has posted this comment on an article in the Independent:

Davieboo 3 hours ago
RIP to those taken and my sympathy goes out to the families affected.. The bloody road strikes again and no one in this government cares. A road linking two of our biggest three cities in the country and is nothing more than a dirt track in places especially after buttavent on the cork side. There is no excuses especially when the NRA are building a motorway from Gort to tuam and spending 300 million on a 10 km scheme in Wexford as we speak. It really feel like we are expendable down this part of the country.

What fecking eejit does that remind people of?

marmurr1916

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The big question is just how much traffic will use this road. Limerick - Galway traffic may be better off using the old road as the new M18 will be a lot longer.

But a lot quicker given the poor quality of the existing N18 between Gort and Galway, along with the fact that it passes through several villages between Gort and Galway.

Vanquished

marmurr1916 wrote: »

But a lot quicker given the poor quality of the existing N18 between Gort and Galway, along with the fact that it passes through several villages between Gort and Galway.

I drive both roads frequently and the existing N18 between Gort and Oranmore is of a superior standard than the stretch of the N20 from Croom to Mallow.

Yes the M17/18 project was much further advanced than the M20 but the fact that the most dangerous and substandard section of the N20 hasn't been replaced at this point is inexcusable!

Schadenfreudia

Reputable Rog wrote: »

The only reason Gort to Tuam went first is that the CPO process was complete and the scheme adopted.
Buttevant traders sought an oral hearing into the M20 scheme as they weren't happy with only being served by Mallow North and Charleville and wanted a junction of their own, this delayed can the whole process.

Also called "shooting yourself in the foot"!

After the IFA noticed that the Foot and Mouth restrictions in 2000 stopped surveyors coming onto their land, and in gratitude for the nearly €1 billion the State paid up to combat the disease, mainly in compensation pavements, the Farmers decided to stop all surveys on their land until an extortionate land compensation deal was agreed.

That process froze work on numerous major projects across rural Ireland in the early naughties and so much of the resources were freed up to pursue projects in the GDA.

By the time the delayed projects got going and through the planning system - the crash came; leaving a large numbers of projects outside GDA dead in the water.

And the rural lobby have been whining about the "Dublin bias" ever since.

People tend to forget this wee morality tale